Know Your 'Rafale'

[gadeshi]

that will never going to be happen .. Lets stop the Su 30 MKI production in 272, and start working on improving it's reliability and service availability,
So far I heard the Su 30 MKI availability still on around 60%-70% only

It will be a very reasonable decision my friend...
But your govt needs to kick some asses for this...

 

[Bahamut]

The FGFA won't be in service before 2025

They are going a IOC, service is before 2020

 

[SajeevJino]

Rafale was the first to kicked out from MMRCA at tech evaluation phase.

Google it.

First time hearing that, can you give me a good source, I'm tried off with that Google

Thanks in advance

 

[abingdonboy]

Sukhoi is a design company ,critical components from russia are supplied by Irkut and the rest by HAL.We have talked endless it ,if Su 30 gets grounded due to lack of spare ,IAF then order it ,then it is produce ,a gap of 2 months and half what HAL is crap takes 4 months to make and are rejected .I say let TATA take over from HAL .

This is the best the Russian OEM can offer:

India, Russia to sign pact on spares for Su 30 fleet, availability could go up to 75%
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

I don't know how you can think TATA can pull a rabbit out of the hat and produce a greater performance figure to the IAF.

 

[gadeshi]

HAL has the exclusive licence for MKI production in India so it will never happen. Furthermore Russia is all to happy to keep dealing with HAL- Kamov have signed up with HAL to make the Ka-226T in India whereas Airbus Military has a JV with Mahindra to make helicopters in India and a JV with TATA to make the C-295W in India and Dassualt is working to build the Rafale with a PRIVATE partner in India.

As @SajeevJino has mentioned earlier, HAL must stop making new planes and concentrate on service system development.

 

[SajeevJino]

They are going a IOC, service is before 2020

it was planned earlier it will comes by 2020 ..now it's pushed back to another five, Engine issues still not sorted out

The same reason IAF too refrain to sign the FGFA contract

 

[abingdonboy]

They are going a IOC, service is before 2020

The FGFA hasn't even been made yet- not a single panel, there is no way the FGFA will be in service before 2025, I'm not talking about the PAK-FA that variant is irrelevent to the IAF.

 

[abingdonboy]

As @SajeevJino has mentioned earlier, HAL must stop making new planes and concentrate on service system development.

I'll repeat:

This is the best the Russian OEM can offer:

India, Russia to sign pact on spares for Su 30 fleet, availability could go up to 75%
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

I don't know how you can think TATA can pull a rabbit out of the hat and produce a greater performance figure to the IAF.

Even with 100% of HAL's focus that 75% figure won't change.

 

[Bahamut]

The F-22 costs about 3 times as much as an F-15 to fly per hour and requires about 4-5 times as much maintainence.

It happened because the production was canceled and also USAF decided not make sub system required for maintenance of F 22 and not solve its bugs.

 

[Bahamut]

This is the best the Russian OEM can offer:

India, Russia to sign pact on spares for Su 30 fleet, availability could go up to 75%
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

I don't know how you can think TATA can pull a rabbit out of the hat and produce a greater performance figure to the IAF.

75% is a good figure for Su 30 ,it can increased even by maintaining spares in stocks.

 

[gadeshi]

Yeah and it was also meant to be in the IAF's hands from 2014 and the Vikramditya was only meant to cost India $1BN USD (inflate this by 250% for the final cost) and be in service by 2009 (entered service in 2015). I don't beleive a word the Russians have to say when it comes to dealing with India- they have consistently misled India, under delivered and used India as a cash cow.

I would love for someone to explain to me how the FGFA, a G5 plane of the same size as the MKI, but with many times more complex systems/airframe is going to cost LESS to fly and be EASIER to maintain when every real world example points to the exact OPPOSITE. The F-22 costs about 3 times as much as an F-15 to fly per hour and requires about 4-5 times as much maintainence. So Russia, a nation that has consistently underdelivered and offered abysmal availabilty has somehow unlocked some magic formula for success and is going to do what the world leaders the US couldn't even do? Please.....

The FGFA won't be in service before 2025, by that point the IAF will be lucky if it can get them for less than $200 million each (the Super 30s are going to cost >$120 MIllion) and if they deliver 50% availabilty rates.

Dude, one of the main G5 features (does Rafale have them btw? ) are self-diagnostic suit (including smart skin sensors telling servicemen about structural problems), modular engines and electronics and sophisticated construction materials with encreased lifetime that don't require service at all.
Russians have them (mixed Carbon-Aramide-Polyamide composits).
So, see no problem to achieve -30% costs and time reduction.

 

[SajeevJino]

Yeah, all the places where Frenchies appear get drawn in blood, rapes and toilets.
Lybia and Mali are a great examples

meh, I love the french, Situations once in CAR, Chad and Mali is more like current Syria, when those French infantry patrol close to the streets of those AFrican villages, those terrorists like Qaida and Shabab almost kicked out from the region, half of them went to Nigeria other went to Somalia, where US and Chinese assisted forces hunting them.

 

[abingdonboy]

Rafale was the first to kicked out from MMRCA at tech evaluation phase.

Google it.

Lol, this was a total media fabrication. There was no scope to "kick out" the Rafale at that stage, the MMRCA process was simple:

RFP
bids submitted (6)
Technical evaluations by IAF
in-country and out of country flight and weapon demonstrations by IAF
Assesment of all bids' adherance to technical criteria (600+ points)
Downselect- in this case only EFT and Rafale found complient with the IAF's critiera

The propoganda would have you beleive the Rafale was kicked out at the Technical evaluation stage but that makes no sense given the "downselect" was the only time bids would not be progressed.

 

[gadeshi]

This is the best the Russian OEM can offer:

India, Russia to sign pact on spares for Su 30 fleet, availability could go up to 75%
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

I don't know how you can think TATA can pull a rabbit out of the hat and produce a greater performance figure to the IAF.

TATA performance and quality in this role will be an interesting subject to discusss...

 

[gadeshi]

It happened because the production was canceled and also USAF decided not make sub system required for maintenance of F 22 and not solve its bugs.

It happens because of radical stealth with partly external RAMs which have little lifetime and complicated hardware/software complex that is implemented on early 80-s technology levels.

 

[Bahamut]

@abingdonboy @SajeevJino

 

[abingdonboy]

Dude, one of the main G5 features (does Rafale have them btw? ) are self-diagnostic suit (including smart skin sensors telling servicemen about structural problems), modular engines and electronics and sophisticated construction materials with encreased lifetime that don't require service at all.
Russians have them (mixed Carbon-Aramide-Polyamide composits).
So, see no problem to achieve -30% costs and time reduction.

Again, the Russians are going to have the same problem as the USAF where G5 fighters are concerned, why would Russia be immune from the huge expensive and maintainence burden a G5 plane comes with?

There has been little indication that maintainabilty is an area the Russians have caught up with to the West in and the IAF has ample information in which to make their assesment.

 

[abingdonboy]

@abingdonboy @SajeevJino
View attachment 8174
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Right, and the best the Russians can offer is 75%, the French are willing to offer 90%.

 

[sayareakd]

guys its Defexpo thread..............................................

 

[gadeshi]

meh, I love the french, Situations once in CAR, Chad and Mali is more like current Syria, when those French infantry patrol close to the streets of those AFrican villages, those terrorists like Qaida and Shabab almost kicked out from the region, half of them went to Nigeria other went to Somalia, where US and Chinese assisted forces hunting them.

Frienchies came to Mali and Somalia not for altruistic reasons but for Uranium-235 deposites