Know Your 'Rafale'

[punjab47]

I think that on an 8 bil contract that ballooned to 20, there would have been a 3 4 bil cancellation fee.

We just got 2 squads instead, & I don't think the french are happy about that.
--
Even the us helo deal 3.1bil for 37helos & full arms & all is not bad. Considering it would have ballooned 40% higher.

They have to spend first few years doing damage control.

I want to see them get rajya sabha so they can start bounties like zakriya khan did.

 

[halloweene]

Those aircrafts will be Meteor ready .....?

if they starat building them now, yes they will be meteor ready. In fact metoer live shot was already performed.

 

[halloweene]

Do you have that data?

______________________________________________________________________________

i only time the data of 8 hours average maintenance between flights for Rafale vs around 30 for SU-30SM.
That Rafale initial lifetime is scheduled for around 8000 hours, that the M88 CGP has a similar scheduled lifetime etc.
About the cost of first 36 Rafales, Please separe recurring and non recurring posts (eg toolings for two airbases etc...)

 

[gadeshi]

i only time the data of 8 hours average maintenance between flights for Rafale vs around 30 for SU-30SM

Su-30SM has 2-3 maitenance hours for 1 flight one which is very low.
Latest drills shown 15-45 minutes before the next flight depending on the fuel needed and weapons loadout.
Where did you get this stupidity about 30 hours inter-flight?
BTW, 24-30 hrs were needed earlier times for the planes with an old inertial nav system having mechanical hyroscopes - they needed such a big timeframe for precise spin and calibration. The longer range were needed, the longer time had spent for calibration.

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[The enlightened]

i only time the data of 8 hours average maintenance between flights for Rafale vs around 30 for SU-30SM.
That Rafale initial lifetime is scheduled for around 8000 hours, that the M88 CGP has a similar scheduled lifetime etc.
About the cost of first 36 Rafales, Please separe recurring and non recurring posts (eg toolings for two airbases etc...)

That doesn't say anything! Even if those figures are correct, all French items are much more costlier than Russian. Also we had this calculation done on another forum

http://articles.economictimes.india.../56879905_1_maintenance-work-sukhoi-su-30-mki
834 crore equals some $135 millions.
135 millions over an estimated fleet of 200 jets equals some $700,000 per jet
Assuming 150 hrs per jet, we get less than $5000 per flight hour

 

[The enlightened]

Su-30SM has 2-3 maitenance hours for 1 flight one which is very low.
Latest drills shown 15-45 minutes before the next flight depending on the fuel needed and weapons loadout.
Where did you get this stupidity about 30 hours inter-flight?
BTW, 24-30 hrs were needed earlier times for the planes with an old inertial nav system having mechanical hyroscopes - they needed such a big timeframe for precise spin and calibration. The longer range were needed, the longer time had spent for calibration.

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How different is MKI from SM?

edit: apart from the obvious absence of French/Israeli/Indian stuff.

 

[gadeshi]

How different is MKI from SM?

edit: apart from the obvious absence of French/Israeli/Indian stuff.

Different engines, lighter and more powerfull radar, corrected and improved FCS, new network-centric datalink, completely glass cockpit like on SU-35S, complete self-defence suite with newest RWR/bispectral IR/UV MAWS, newest ESM/ECM suite, different internal data bus and built-in self-diagnostics suite. Completely new mission computers and all new software. Newest weapons adaptation.
And much more less important pieces or the things under secret sign we know very little about.

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[gadeshi]

How different is MKI from SM?

edit: apart from the obvious absence of French/Israeli/Indian stuff.

More then 15 years have passed between MKI and SM projects starts. This impacts all the things.

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[The enlightened]

Different engines, lighter and more powerfull radar, corrected and improved FCS, new network-centric datalink, completely glass cockpit like on SU-35S, complete self-defence suite with newest RWR/bispectral IR/UV MAWS, newest ESM/ECM suite, different internal data bus and built-in self-diagnostics suite. Completely new mission computers and all new software. Newest weapons adaptation.
And much more less important pieces or the things under secret sign we know very little about.

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A spec chart would be nice

More then 15 years have passed between MKI and SM projects starts. This impacts all the things.

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Why haven't they gone for such an important piece i.e AESA

 

[gadeshi]

A spec chart would be nice

Why haven't they gone for such an important piece i.e AESA

Because Bars-R hybrid PESA has greater specs than majority of AESAs
There is a project of AESA for Bars and Irbis radars (prototype antennaes had been shown on MAKS-2013), but there are rumors that it is postponed for the time when Indian Super Su will enter an active phase. Then all the Su-27SM3, Su-35S, Su-30MKI and SU-30SM will get it "wholesale" to make a production more lucrative.

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[The enlightened]

Because Bars-R hybrid PESA has greater specs than majority of AESAs
There is a project of AESA for Bars and Irbis radars (prototype antennaes had been shown on MAKS-2013), but there are rumors that it is postponed for the time when Indian Super Su will enter an active phase. Then all the Su-27SM3, Su-35S, Su-30MKI and SU-30SM will get it "wholesale" to make a production more lucrative.

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The main selling feature of AESA over PESA is not radar range but LPI and other assorted EW capabilities. Is BARS-R mechanically steered too like BARS-RCS

 

[gadeshi]

The main selling feature of AESA over PESA is not radar range but LPI and other assorted EW capabilities. Is BARS-R mechanically steered too like BARS-RCS

The only AESA advantages are better signal/noise ratio and wider range of ray forming and control algorythms available.
No, Bars-R is not mechanically augmented.
LPI is sane for radical VLO aircraft only.

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[smestarz]

Those aircrafts will be Meteor ready .....?

iNDIA is discussing the F3 version which did not have Meteor, to further add Meteor or any other missile of our choice will be costing EXTRA.
Also the METEORs seeem to be expensive, even France can just afford 100 Meteors between their 141 Rafales, do the maths

 

[smestarz]

usual junk rafale fanboy / motivated / incentivised reply

we have discussed the data with actual comparision on another forum

And that forum is dead it seems..

 

[SajeevJino]

iNDIA is discussing the F3 version which did not have Meteor, to further add Meteor or any other missile of our choice will be costing EXTRA.
Also the METEORs seeem to be expensive, even France can just afford 100 Meteors between their 141 Rafales, do the maths

lol ..who said this ..!!

30 meteor missiles and 30 Rafale F 3

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

And that forum is dead it seems..

seems like with dimnishing chances of rafale the funding has been cutoff

 

[gadeshi]

lol ..who said this ..!!

30 meteor missiles and 30 Rafale F 3

AIM-120C-7 costs $1.8М each. Meteor have and will have rather less production numbers then AMRAAM. Any production in Europe costs and will cost 1.5-2 times more then in US (EU and US both have an expensive labour, but USA have 2 times cheaper energy and 30% lower taxes).
So, you can do the math


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[halloweene]

Gadeshi, please show me the number or AVERAGE (not war time) 2 housrs maintenanace. Using the same message, you could answer about cell and engine lifetime please?

 

[gadeshi]

Gadeshi, please show me the number or AVERAGE (not war time) 2 housrs maintenanace. Using the same message, you could answer about cell and engine lifetime please?

There is no wartime normatives. There are inter-flight and reglamented maintenance. There are no normatives for the last one - built-in diagnosis suite shows the current status of all systems and airframe itself and this defies the maintenance time.
Overall nominal airframe lifetime is 6000 hrs and can be extended if the current state allows this.
Al-31FM-1 has 4000 hrs

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[halloweene]

interflight standard SU30 is a 28 hours no? M88 GCP pack is 8000 ours, aswell as Rafale cell (afaik)
BTW "normatives" during libian ops was aroud 95%