Know Your 'Rafale'

[halloweene]

@Decklander

Northrop Developing Laser Missile Jammer For F-35

DIRCM for air to air missiles will be part of the F-35. Possibly Rafale too.

Guess why DDM-NG were designed DIRCM compatible? But need to miniaturize, implement etc.

 

[p2prada]

I have been reading about it for sometime now and it has to happen considering the way tech is developing and I won't be surprised if we see EMP based weapons soon in place of jammers. The IR seeker tech has eveolved to such a level now that only possible counter measure against them are hardkill or directed energy weapons.I am for lasers which can blind pilots as an effectice WVR weapon rather than A2AMs. IMHO, F-22 is probably the last such fighter which Americans have developed after that they might develop only space based fighters.

Too bad we will end up waiting a long time for such info to come out in the civilian domain. If they kept the F-117 and B-2 secret for so long, then what else might be cooking that we don't know of.

Guess why DDM-NG were designed DIRCM compatible? But need to miniaturize, implement etc.

I agree. A DIRCM is nothing without the DDM-NG after all.

 

[halloweene]

From twitter via G. Steuer :

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Guillaume Steuer
"@G_Steuer
Discussions with #Dassault regarding potential mods to #Rafale contract should be finished by the end of this year, French MoD says.
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RETWEETS Bo2z'RGabriele
4:17 PM - 17 Sept, 13

 

[jmj_overlord]

news has come that deals for rafales might come through this fiscal year...

 

[jmj_overlord]

news has come that deals for rafales might come through this fiscal year...

my mistake....deals for rafales might not come through this fiscal year

 

[arnabmit]

Dassault Meets Key Tender Condition In Indian MMRCA Contract | idrw.org
SOURCE: DEFENSE WORLD

Dassault is one step closer to signing the MMRCA contract with India after it delivered the first Rafale fighter aircraft in the Lot-4 production to the French Directorate General of Armaments (DGA) last week.

The aircraft is the first of 60 production Rafales, to be delivered with the new Thales RBE2 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar also fitted with next-generation sensors, the new-generation missile launch detector (DDM NG) and the new front sector optronics "Identification and Telemetry."

The Indian MMRCA tender stipulates the aircraft must have a production AESA radar and not a prototype. While none of the contending aircraft had an in-production AESA radar at the bidding stage, the Rafale delivering an AESA-equipped production aircraft to the French Air Force means that Dassault has met a key condition which should help in the negotiations currently underway prior to signing of the contract.

The inclusion of the AESA radar makes the Rafale the first European combat aircraft to use the Thales-made radar.

In operational terms, the AESA?RBE2/AA (antenna active) radar can track many targets. It also allows a significant ?increase in detection range of enemy aircraft and a significant increase in reliability over previous-generation radars.

In air-to-air mode, a much greater sensitivity makes it possible to?detect smaller targets and detects them earlier. Since the antenna comprises a very large number of active modules, the failure of some of these has no noticeable effect on the overall performance?and reliability of the system.

Dassault will tailor the MMRCA Rafale after the current French Air Force's Rafale Standard F3 Tranche; the aircraft will use complete weaponry including 60 of which are to be delivered under Tranche 4.

The first such Rafale recently began an extended validation campaign and will integrating the MBDA Meteor BVRAAM's later this year making it the most powerful of any Rafale.

The Indian Air Force technical team will fly and test this very model once the deal is concluded with Dassault and the production of a first batch of 18 Rafale Hs is launched at Bordeaux-Mérignac.Meanwhile, the newly delivered Rafale will be subjected to flight tests at the Mont-de-Marsan airbase in the coming days.

 

[dealwithit]

MMRCA : Jet set no ??


When India selected Rafale fighter jets for its Air Force in January 2012, French president Nicolas Sarkozy was thrilled. He had personally lobbied for the medium multi-role combat aircraft and had visited India to pitch for it. For Dassault Aviation, the selection of Rafale was a major victory over five other aircraft makers. Rafale is expected to be the mainstay of India's fighter aircraft fleet for the next 40 years and will replace its MiG fleet. But controversies, differences over cost and the industrial role of state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd have led to a deadlock.

The French aircraft was selected for final negotiations after extensive field trials. However, there is no clarity on when the deal will be signed. A senior defence ministry official told THE WEEK that the main problem was the acquisition process and life-cycle cost of the aircraft. "The cost negotiation is a complicated process, mainly because of numerous negotiations for sub-contracts with a number of Indian firms that are suppliers to HAL, which is the primary licensed production agency for Rafale planes."

As per the deal, Dassault Aviation will supply 18 Rafales in fly-away condition and HAL will then build the remaining 108. Indian firms will manufacture and supply the parts required by HAL to assemble the jet. Dassault's concern was that under India's Request for Proposal (the tender document), the jet was to be assembled at HAL, with Dassault responsible for timely delivery. It is, however, ready to take responsibility for only the first 18.

The defence ministry said Dassault would have to partner with HAL in the execution of the entire project as specified in the original tender. The first jet built at HAL is expected to be rolled out by 2017-2018. Thereafter, HAL will deliver six jets per year, which will go up to 20 per year later. During the cost negotiation, officials said Dassault had also expressed concerns about HAL's capacity to handle such a big contract. The company wanted to rope in private Indian firms like Reliance Industries Ltd, with which Dassault has a joint venture. The defence ministry said it had no issues with Dassault's partnership with Reliance for building components, but insisted "the integration must be done at HAL."

The deal, worth more than $15 billion, was also delayed because two MPs—Yashwant Sinha and M.V. Mysoora Reddy—had written to Defence Minister A.K. Antony against the selection of the French company. While Sinha alleged that the life-cycle cost of the aircraft was too high, Reddy questioned the selection of an aircraft that was never sold outside France. Antony sent both letters to his bureaucrats, who went through all the documents related to the deal. Incidentally, the infamous British middleman Christian Michel's name also surfaced in connection with the deal. The Italian investigations into the AgustaWestland case had found that Michel had allegedly got 30 million of the 51 million euros paid as bribe in Agusta's VVIP helicopter contract. Though he has not been feautured in the Rafale deal, it was found that he had earlier worked as a middlemen for Dassault, too. Joint secretary (air acquisitions) in the defence ministry, Arun Kumar Bal, was sent to Italy to gather further evidence. Bal heads the contract negotiation committee in the Rafale deal.

The deal is crucial, as the Air Force is short of fighter jets. It currently has only 30 to 32 serviceable squadrons. This is well below the IAF's target of 39.5. For Dassault, the deal is crucial for its survival, as the French government has warned that the production of the jet might be stopped if foreign buyers were not found. The French government has already announced a cutback in its orders for Rafale jets from 11 per year to 26 over the next six years. This could jeopardise the entire programme unless Dassault signs the contract.

 

[happy]

MMRCA : Jet set no ??
The deal is crucial, as the Air Force is short of fighter jets. It currently has only 30 to 32 serviceable squadrons. This is well below the IAF's target of 39.5. For Dassault, the deal is crucial for its survival, as the French government has warned that the production of the jet might be stopped if foreign buyers were not found. The French government has already announced a cutback in its orders for Rafale jets from 11 per year to 26 over the next six years. This could jeopardise the entire programme unless Dassault signs the contract.

Please give the source for this article. I guess if the french govt really put pressure on dassault, it shouldn't be too difficult for complete tot.

 

[halloweene]

Funny article, partly well informed (the issues with the number of subcontracts), partly pure bs. There are NO cut in orders, but delays in deliveries. Such a situation already happenned with precedent 2008 law, which also took in account export orders that didnt come (Brazil). The program is quite secure as France has no plan B. Remember France just funded 1 billion euros for further Raf1le dev.

 

[Neil]

BAE Offers Typhoon To UAE, Says Could Still Win Indian MMRCA Deal


The United Arab Emirates has received a formal bid from BAE Systems to build 60 Eurofighter Typhoon jets for the country.The Typhoon is the front-runner followed closely by Dassault with its Rafale jets for the deal which could be valued up to $6 billion. The potential deal is also likely to include a technology-sharing agreement on unmanned aircraft, according to the Telegraph.



A winner is expected to be selected in the coming months.Charles Armitage at UBS (BAE's House Broker) was quoted as saying by the newspaper that if a deal is agreed between BAE and the UAE, it could open the door for talks with India to be restarted.He said: "If UAE is signed, this could put pressure on India, which would be the only export customer for Rafale – nobody likes being the only export customer for a programme as it tends to reduce flexibility and increase the upgrade/maintenance costs – and could bring Typhoon back into the picture.

" The group's chances of securing the order were bolstered by an alliance that was agreed last November, when David Cameron travelled to the Gulf to unveil a formal defence and industrial partnership between Britain and the UAE, the report added.

BAE Offers Typhoon To UAE, Says Could Still Win Indian MMRCA Deal | idrw.org

 

[p2prada]

No chance for Typhoon in the current MRCA structure. They are fooling their shareholders with such silly statements.

 

[halloweene]

UBS is BAE's bank...

 

[lookieloo]

No chance for Typhoon in the current MRCA structure. They are fooling their shareholders with such silly statements.

Until India drops its idiotic demand that a foreign contractor be fully responsible for timely, on-cost delivery of aircraft built by HAL, I'm not sure anyone has a chance under the current MRCA structure. Given HAL's track-record, I'm guessing that all the western competitors were hoping to eventually talk their way out of that requirement if they won.

 

[Twinblade]

Until India drops its idiotic demand that a foreign contractor be fully responsible for timely, on-cost delivery of aircraft built by HAL,

You are either a class idiot or grossly misinformed if you believe a fraction of what you wrote. HAL pays liquidated damages for all delays, whether for license build products or home made ones. For the first time, delays/impropriety in transfer of technology are being tied to the liquidated damages clause at the end product level, ie if the upstream vendor (Dassault) is responsible for the overall slippage in the delivery timelines due to the above said reason, it will pay the liquidated damages, not the downstream vendor (HAL).

 

[lookieloo]

You are either a class idiot or grossly misinformed if you believe a fraction of what you wrote. HAL pays liquidated damages for all delays, whether for license build products or home made ones. For the first time, delays/impropriety in transfer of technology are being tied to the liquidated damages clause at the end product level, ie if the upstream vendor (Dassault) is responsible for the overall slippage in the delivery timelines due to the above said reason, it will pay the liquidated damages, not the downstream vendor (HAL).

In other words, Dessault is still liable for any HAL delay/overrun if the GoI determins it to be caused by a technology-transfer problem. Do you really expect everyone to believe any hangups WOULDN'T be blamed on ToT in the event of problems? Someone's is indeed an idiot, but fact that nearly two years have passed without a contract indicates it isn't me. Lose the butthurt.

 

[Twinblade]

In other words, Dessault is still liable for any HAL delay/overrun if the GoI determins it to be caused by a technology-transfer problem. Do you really expect everyone to believe any hangups WOULDN'T be blamed on ToT in the event of problems?

It's not hard to fix the responsibility. If Dassault sticks to the predetermined deadlines on their part, no one can touch them. Also, shouldn't have taken part in the tender if they weren't willing to take responsibility, its not as if this clause has been added arbitrarily. Upstream vendor responsibility is hardly a novel concept.

Someone's is indeed an idiot, but fact that nearly two years have passed without a contract indicates it isn't me. Lose the butthurt.

Quit the snark, you have been caught misrepresenting facts and called out for it. BAE deal took 18 years, Su-30Mki deal took five years, compared to that 2 years is a cakewalk.

 

[lookieloo]

It's not hard to fix the responsibility. If Dassault sticks to the predetermined deadlines on their part, no one can touch them.

Dessault appears to be unconvinced of Indian propriety/objectivity in such matters, and it's quite obvious that they participated (like the other western competitors) in the hope they could wriggle-free of that ridiculous obligation.

 

[p2prada]

Until India drops its idiotic demand that a foreign contractor be fully responsible for timely, on-cost delivery of aircraft built by HAL, I'm not sure anyone has a chance under the current MRCA structure. Given HAL's track-record, I'm guessing that all the western competitors were hoping to eventually talk their way out of that requirement if they won.

It's take it or leave it.

If you can't accept these demands, then don't participate at all.

Funnily, everybody and their grandpas participated.

 

[lookieloo]

It's take it or leave it.

If you can't accept these demands, then don't participate at all.

Funnily, everybody and their grandpas participated.

So who's gonna "take it"? If Dessault's worried about being liable for the set-up of HAL production, it'd be even more risky for the consortium-built Typhoon.

 

[p2prada]

So who's gonna "take it"? If Dessault's worried about being liable for the set-up of HAL production, it'd be even more risky for the consortium-built Typhoon.

It won't make a difference. Come clean with ToT and industrial offsets clause and the deal is yours. Don't come clean and there will be liabilities. So simple. The extra options of 63 alone is bigger than most other international deals, let alone the main prize of 126. And looking at the delays with LCA, the numbers could balloon even more. Apart from that IAF has been pushing for increasing sanctioned squadron numbers as well. So, why wouldn't anybody take it?

Heck, had we been part of the F-35 project we would be right behind the US in terms of orders.

As for quality control, Sukhoi is liable for HAL's quality too. Still the project ballooned from the initial 18 to 50 to 190 to 230 to 272. Do you see Sukhoi complaining? So why should Dassault, especially when they are more desperate for a sale now?

You talk as though it is the seller's market. When it comes to India, it has almost always been the buyer's market.