Know Your 'Rafale'

trackwhack

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Does this mean we can induct at a faster rate should the deal be signed with more planes being built in France than was initially suggested?/ If the deal is signed, then there will be more orders later so not much will be lost in terms of manufacturing knowhow for us, rather more a cost factor.
 

Neil

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After investing 40billion dollars.France could not even induct 100 into there air force in total.

May be they will later order the Eurofighter
are u for real....??

france will be inducting 180 rafale and 115 already inducted.... plus export orders ...!! way better than jf 17 can even dream of....
 
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farhan_9909

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are u for real....??

france will be inducting 180 rafale and 115 already inducted.... plus export orders ...!! way better than jf 17 can even dream of....
Ooops

I was wrong.I thought only 80 are inducted so far
 

bose

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If all goes well, India will end up having more Rafales than France...
 

syncro

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French planned buy 286 Rafale at the end... 180 are only the confirmed order for now.

There are also the cut of 34,000 military personnel so French Army go down from 228.000 to 194,000 military.

The 3% max deficit in the Eurozone kickass :)

But need badly that 180 Rafales... the 210 Italian Eurofighters and F-35s are too few for bombing Berlin alone
 

Drsomnath999

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France drastically cuts defence; expects the Rafale can save it from further axing


France is to cut more than 30,000 defence posts and reduce or delay orders for jet fighters and other equipment as the socialist government seeks to balance the need for stringent spending cuts with a bid to sustain the country's role as a big military power.



A six-year defence budget, adopted by the government at its final meeting before the summer break on Friday, will see spending held at this year's level of €31.4bn for the next three years, a real-terms cut. It includes a reduction of 34,000 posts on top of almost 50,000 already made, shrinking the total military and defence staff to 242,000 in 2019, from 324,000 in 2008. Some 10,000 of the new cuts will be operational troops.

Orders for the Rafale fighter are to be reduced to 26 from a previously planned 66 over the period, with the total combat air force set to be trimmed to 225 by 2025, from a previous target of 300. lesser delays are also built in for the supply of new attack submarines and frigates.

But President François Hollande protected the budget from deeper cuts sought by the finance ministry following France's military intervention earlier this year to oust Islamist militants threatening to overthrow the government in Mali.

Yves le Drian, French defence minister, said those seeking to make the military the "margin of adjustment" in France's struggle to reduce its budget deficit had been rebuffed. "That will not be the case – as it is in the US," he said, referring to the "sequestration" cuts hitting US defence spending.

He said the budget would allow France, Europe's main military power behind the UK, to maintain all its strategic capabilities, including its nuclear deterrent and its ability to mount "one major and two significant" simultaneous operations abroad, as set out earlier this year in a defence white paper.

Unlike the UK, which has temporarily cut its aircraft carrier force and its maritime patrol aircraft, Paris has not elected to strike out any major defence line.

"The French have pointedly decided they are not going to make such crunchy choices," said François Heisbourg, special adviser at the Foundation for Strategic Studies in Paris.

But the budget, which accounts for some 11% of state spending, is based on a number of critical assumptions, including that France's overall fiscal situation will not deteriorate. The government is gambling that the cut in orders for the Rafale will be made up for by exports. Mr Le Drian said he was confident that exclusive talks under way with India for the purchase of 126 Rafales would lead to a deal and that other countries, such as Qatar, Brazil and the United Arab Emirates, were interested in the aircraft.

"The wild card is the Rafale," said Mr Heisbourg. "The equation only works if they get the export orders. That is the really big risk in this."

The total €190bn budget set out for the 2014-2019 period also includes €6bn to be raised from the sale of real estate, radio frequencies and from state investment programs.
The successful Mali operation underscored France's jealously guarded ability to project its military power, but also revealed gaps in its capabilities in areas such as aerial surveillance, airborne transport and mid-air refuelling.

These are all addressed in the budget plan, which includes orders already planned for drones from the US, the long-delayed A400M Airbus transport aircraft and refuelling aircraft. It's anyone's guess show this will end. (globaldefenceanalysis).-

France drastically cuts defence; expects the Rafale can save it from further axing — MercoPress
 

rusellviper89

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French planned buy 286 Rafale at the end... 180 are only the confirmed order for now.

There are also the cut of 34,000 military personnel so French Army go down from 228.000 to 194,000 military.

The 3% max deficit in the Eurozone kickass :)

But need badly that 180 Rafales... the 210 Italian Eurofighters and F-35s are too few for bombing Berlin alone
Excuse me did you say Bombing Berlin ?
 

t_co

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If Dassault is becoming a forced seller, that's great news for the IAF. Time to play negotiating hardball with them and get advantageous terms on pricing, ToT, warranties, spares, etc.

If I were the IAF I would start 'serious negotiations' with Sukhoi for the Su-35 right about now. The best way to negotiate is when the opposing party is scared shitless.
 

wrigsted

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French planned buy 286 Rafale at the end... 180 are only the confirmed order for now.

There are also the cut of 34,000 military personnel so French Army go down from 228.000 to 194,000 military.

The 3% max deficit in the Eurozone kickass :)

But need badly that 180 Rafales... the 210 Italian Eurofighters and F-35s are too few for bombing Berlin alone
Why would anyone bomb Berlin?
 

Yusuf

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India should sweeten the offer. We will buy more, price will be this!
 

roma

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If Dassault is becoming a forced seller, that's great news for the IAF. Time to play negotiating hardball with them and get advantageous terms on pricing, ToT, warranties, spares, etc. If I were the IAF I would start 'serious negotiations' with Sukhoi for the Su-35 ........
First we had a respected member from pakistan giving us some good news , now someone from prc is giving us good
advice on how to negotiate for a better deal both with dassault and also the russians
we must be doing something right :rolleyes:

India should sweeten the offer. We will buy more, price will be this!
but that will spoil the "comissions" wont it ?


If all goes well, India will end up having more Rafales than France...
really we should make a bid to increase our share of ownership of the company - not buy outright as we dont have expertise in management of european personnel etc

- alternatively IF we can get people like Lakshmi Mittal, and others who have experience in running large corporations in the euro-zone or britain to be joint partners, then we could consider taking a majority share in the company and gradually move in !
 
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roma

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If Dassault is becoming a forced seller, that's great news for the IAF. Time to play negotiating hardball with them and get advantageous terms on pricing, ToT, warranties, spares, etc. If I were the IAF I would start 'serious negotiations' with Sukhoi for the Su-35 ........
First we had a respected member from pakistan giving us some good news , now someone from prc is giving us good
advice on how to negotiate for a better deal both with dassault and also the russians
we must be doing something right

India should sweeten the offer. We will buy more, price will be this!
but that might spoil the already negotiated "comissions" wouldnt it ?


If all goes well, India will end up having more Rafales than France...
really we should make a bid to get a share of ownership of the company - not nec majority share as we dont have expertise in management of european personnel and all that involves

- alternatively IF we can get people like Lakshmi Mittal, and others who have experience in running large corporations in the euro-zone or britain to be joint partners then we could consider taking a larger share !
 
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bose

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really we should make a bid to increase our share of ownership of the company - not buy outright as we dont have expertise in management of european personnel etc

- alternatively IF we can get people like Lakshmi Mittal, and others who have experience in running large corporations in the euro-zone or britain to be joint partners, then we could consider taking a majority share in the company and gradually move in !
It is brilliant idea, Lakshmi Mittal may not be well taken by French because of some recent issues with French government but definitely TATA has the image acceptable there...

India need to work more strategically and have a long term business alliance commitment with France for a stake in likes of Dassault and Aveva ..
 

halloweene

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Plz take in account that there was no order cut, but deliveries delay scheduled "taking in account exports". The idea is (i) to save money for french state (ii) to "flatten" as mauch as possible production curve for Dassault. 11/year planes is still contractual, it was mentioned that plans could be revised and that there is a provisioned 1 billion euros...
More positive is the one billion euros spent in F3R standard development.
 

Drsomnath999

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Sp's Aviation, August 2013:







COURTESY-OLYBRIUS
THANK U FOR THE PICS MATE
 

anoop_mig25

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Offtopic but with rupee sliding i donot see GoI going to buy any future fighter plan , buy the way now what would Rafale and other planes would cost
 

halloweene

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According to a air-defense forumer, he's seen MMRCA signature announced on a Saudi diary.
 

dealwithit

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France cuts Rafale orders, pushes for MMRCA

While negotiations for the MMRCA trudge on in what France is hoping will be the final leg leading to a contract, the country has whittled down orders on the Dassault Rafale amidst pressure on public spending. Sources say that while contract negotiations are indeed in their final phase, there remain significant hurdles to cross before a draft contract agreement is drawn up. France is understood to have sought assurance from the Ministry of Defence (MoD) last month that the contract award would not slip into the next fiscal, but such an assurance was not extended, as there is no legal provision to do so.

All that A.K. Antony told his visiting French counterpart was that India was as keen as France about an early conclusion of the deal, since it was extremely important to the IAF. France's Dassault has had no choice now, however, but to increase its exposure to exports. It's other potential customers include Brazil, Qatar, UAE and Malaysia.
 

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