Know Your 'Rafale'

[Yusuf]

France cutting its orders may allow India to drag the nego a bit more,come up with "leaks" about it looking for more options & drive an even harder bargain. We have to make up for the stupid rupee slide

 

[halloweene]

France didnt cut orders, but expect slower deliveries (all good in these crisis times). Nuance.

 

[Drsomnath999]

Rafale and Chinese J10 at MAKS 2013

COURTESY-OLYBRIUS
THANK U FOR THE PICS MATE


Well this pic actually states
1 rafale = 4 J10s
as 1 rafale can carry atbest 4 meteor

 

[Drsomnath999]

Air&Cosmos 2371:

- India: Thales envisages several scenarios: in the worst scenario, MMRCA would be signed in 2015. [Dassault and the French state are more optimistics]

- RAF4: The next Rafale squadron could be a nuclear squadron. France requires to have two nuclear squadron in 2019 to replace its Mirage 2000N. So with only 26 Rafale delivered in the next years to the French air force if export hopes do materialize, there would not be enough Rafale to constitute a fighter squadron before. Moreover, most of the deliveries planned in 2014 and 2015 are two-seater Rafale.

COURTESY-OLYBRIUS
THANK U FOR THE INFO MATE

 

[Drsomnath999]

France: UK vote doesn't thwart plans to hit Syria

PARIS — French President Francois Hollande expressed willingness Friday to push ahead with plans to strike Syria for allegedly using chemical weapons despite the British parliament's rejection of military action. Washington also was preparing for the possibility of a strike against the Damascus regime within days.[...]
French military analysts say France's most likely role would be from the air, including use of Scalp cruise missiles that have a range of about 500 kilometers (300 miles), fired from Mirage [unlikely] and Rafale fighter jets. French fighters could likely fly directly from mainland France — much as they did at the start of a military campaign against Islamic radicals in Mali earlier this year — with support from refueling aircraft. France also has six Rafale jets at Al Dhafra air base, near Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates on the Persian Gulf, and 7 Mirage-2000 [2000-5 and 2000 D] jets at an air base in Djibouti, on the Red Sea.[...]

PARIS: France: UK vote doesn't thwart plans to hit Syria | World | FresnoBee.com

 

[halloweene]

Havinf lunch at Dassault the 4th, with vice president in charge of PR questions will be transmitted, altho dont expect many answers...

 

[halloweene]

Very important issue (to me), unnoticed from DGA head L. Collet-Billon about propective in DSI special issue n°31, p 24 : "miniature antennas, conformal, agile and highly directive"

 

[p2prada]

Very important issue (to me), unnoticed from DGA head L. Collet-Billon about propective in DSI special issue n°31, p 24 : "miniature antennas, conformal, agile and highly directive"

Can you explain a bit more about this antenna?

 

[halloweene]

He didnt say a lot, but clearly points at conformal antennas for future Rafale (i guess MLU or Rafale NG)

 

[halloweene]

From Financial Times....

Royal connection is Typhoon's secret weapon in the Middle East
By Carola Hoyos
©Marcel Wenk
Eurofighter Typhoon, Europe's most modern fighter jet
Europe's costliest defence procurement project and the bedrock of its military aerospace industry was not supposed to need exporting.
But as defence budgets shrink faster than a jet fighter on the horizon, the idea that Britain, Germany, Italy and Spain can buy enough Typhoon jet fighters to warrant their substantial joint investment is now as good as dead.
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ON THIS STORY
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"¢ Cameron in push to export Typhoon
"¢ Week in review Surprise Indian jet deal
"¢ Japan poised to decide on fighter jets deal
"¢ Blow to Rafale as UAE eyes Eurofighter
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Instead, the companies and governments behind Eurofighter's Typhoon are finding the future tied to the discreet selling prowess of the UK's Queen Elizabeth and the choices of the kings, emirs and sultans who fear the spread of instability around the Gulf.
Her Majesty may not have discussed military hardware as she treated Sheikh Khalifa bin Zayed al-Nahyan – president of the United Arab Emirates and emir of Abu Dhabi – to a carriage ride through Windsor in April, but defence executives and former civil servants say her relationships with and frequent visits to the Gulf's royal rulers are more important in making a deal happen than anyone else's.
It is no coincidence then that since April executives within the Eurofighter consortium of the UK's BAE Systems, pan-European EADS and Italy'sFinmeccanica have privately grown far more confident about Typhoon beating its French rival Dassault Aviation's Rafale in the race to help Abu Dhabi double its air force.
In May, the Queen invited King Hamad al-Khalifa of Bahrain to watch equestrian endurance racing at Windsor with her, despite the outcry from human rights activists. Three months later Typhoon added Bahrain to its expanding list of suitors from the region, with the UK government leading early discussions.
The Bahraini talks were the latest in a series of breakthroughs for Typhoon in the Gulf, notably last year's Omani order for 12 jets, the formation of an Anglo-Emirati defence industrial partnership and early chatter about a further Saudi order for 77 jets.
The Gulf and the UK government's bilateral deals there are crucial to the continued production of Typhoon, which the UK alone predicts will eventually cost it £37bn. Economies of scale are proving hard to find as Germany, the UK, Italy and Spain have slashed their own orders and the Eurofighter companies appear incapable of selling the aircraft elsewhere.
Eurofighter has lost every international tender it has bid for over the past decade. Most recently it was beaten by US, Swedish and French aircraft in Switzerland,Japan and India, while its chances of winning the current South Korean tender are dimming.
EADS was responsible for leading those bids, points out Francis Tusa, editor of Defence Analysis. EADS represents Germany and Spain in the Eurofighter consortium.
"The problem they have got with EADS-sponsored bids is that, given Germany does not fight wars, Germany is the last place you would look for a security arrangement," he says.
No jet fighter purchase is without politics. Eurofighter's biggest problem is that it is not American and therefore cannot compete with Boeing and Lockheed Martin's promise to countries such as Japan and South Korea of a strategic relationship with the world's only military superpower, analysts say.
The reason Typhoon lost in India is that Rafale can actually do so much more and the Indians actually do need to fight a war
- Rob Hewson, aviation weapons specialist at IHS Jane's
But Typhoon's second problem is that even after 10 years of service it does not offer a well-equipped, battle-ready alternative to customers – such as India – who do not want to sign up to the restrictive political conditions that come with buying an American jet fighter.
Typhoon has come a long way since it was conceived in the 1970s as a jet fighter capable of defeating Soviet aircraft in air-to-air combat. As the Soviet threat dissipated and the need to attack ground targets grew, Eurofighter adapted. But executives admit losing the Indian tender laid bare that the changes were not happening fast enough.
Rob Hewson, an aviation weapons specialist at industry analysts IHS Jane's, says that some of Typhoon's close competitors carry a more versatile arsenal of weaponry, with missiles ranging from those that penetrate deep into the ground to those whose accuracy make them better at avoiding civilian casualties when ground targets are in towns and cities.
"The reason Typhoon lost in India is that Rafale can actually do so much more and the Indians actually do need to fight a war," he says, noting that the war in Libya, Typhoon's first deployment, showed the limit of its narrow range of air-to-surface weapons.
Analysts say Eurofighter has no time to lose because the growth of al-Qaeda in Yemen, advances in Iran's nuclear programme, and especially the civil wars in Egypt and Syria mean Gulf leaders are looking for fighters they can use right away.
The Queen – valuable as she is to the sales process – is no longer enough. Typhoon's fate will be determined by its European partners' willingness to get the jet fighter battle ready by investing in the weapons and technology they themselves may not need or be able to afford, but their now all-important foreign customers do.

 

[p2prada]

He didnt say a lot, but clearly points at conformal antennas for future Rafale (i guess MLU or Rafale NG)

Hmm, do you know at what stage of discussion UAE is at?

Any potential NG version will probably start over there. Definitely not IAF. Too bad.

 

[halloweene]

Hmm, do you know at what stage of discussion UAE is at?

Any potential NG version will probably start over there. Definitely not IAF. Too bad.

No. UAE arent in the hurry with loads of F16 block 60 and Mirage 2000-9 (btw, check wich they sent for real fight in Lybia, they even shot a Black Shaheen with it).

Yimeline for Dassault would be india-Qatar-Malaysia-(Brazil-UAE).

Brazil and UAE would be F3-R (it is retrofittable anw).

I was told during a head to head lunch with a top Dassault executive that India would be consulted and partner for MLU (probably early 20ies).

It would be stupid to build two aircrafts

Rafale NG not defined yet, although some of the things you could read about it come from Dassault engineers. Who told you india wouldnt be within NG? India will be an as important client for Dassault then France...

 

[halloweene]

Did you notice there's finally a cost/hour quoted? During high intensity operations (Mali), 14000 euros.

 

[p2prada]

Yimeline for Dassault would be india-Qatar-Malaysia-(Brazil-UAE).

I suppose if Qatar joined in, then Kuwait will follow suit.

Is Malaysia expected, they have a chance of going in for more MKMs too. They have some very flexible options because of India.

Brazil and UAE would be F3-R (it is retrofittable anw).

Brazil is expected, but I thought UAE wanted a 90KN engine.

I was told during a head to head lunch with a top Dassault executive that India would be consulted and partner for MLU (probably early 20ies).

Rafale NG not defined yet, although some of the things you could read about it come from Dassault engineers. Who told you india wouldnt be within NG? India will be an as important client for Dassault then France...

I don't mean part of the initial package for the current contract. With MLUs definitely.

I thought NG will come with UAE orders because the timeline seemed to match with what they want and when they want it. If they are getting F3R then they are the same as us.

 

[halloweene]

UAE do not want anymore 9T engine since Lybia . But they are not in a hurry. Rafale NG isnt scheduled before 2030...

 

[p2prada]

Oh, that's way too ahead in time. I thought early 2020s.

Anyway what will they upgrade Rafale to by then? It will only end up being another Su-35, only upgraded engine and avionics, a bit of RAM here and there.

 

[halloweene]

No. Front side (nose, air intakes redesigned), conformal antennas (all sensors integrated), 9T engine, plane slightly longer, may be dual tail, refined wings, DIRCM if miniaturization ok, weapon bays.. Guts should be roughly the same, but th whole plane will be heavily redesigned. (afaik, but not fixed yet)

 

[p2prada]

No. Front side (nose, air intakes redesigned), conformal antennas (all sensors integrated), 9T engine, plane slightly longer, may be dual tail, refined wings, DIRCM if miniaturization ok, weapon bays.. Guts should be roughly the same, but th whole plane will be heavily redesigned. (afaik, but not fixed yet)

Are you sure about the internal bay, or would it be conformal bays like F-15SE or external pods like initially thought of?

9T engines + internal bays would mean considerably lesser fuel. That doesn't sound right. CWB and EWP won't matter as much.

 

[halloweene]

You are right, conformal bays. But as i said nothing is fixed...

 

[Decklander]

You are right, conformal bays. But as i said nothing is fixed...

Bro, can you post those HUD videos of Rafale v/s F-22 combat which you had sent me on my personal ID. many people have very funny & misplaced ideas about the capability of F-22 w.r.t Rafale. If you post them here, I will post my analysis of those combats.