Know Your 'Rafale'

Drsomnath999

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Nice work.
thanks
I noticed the last graph in the Swiss report gave more marks to EF in performance and workload than Rafale.
U should see this site their it is given the reasons about it
Rafale News: Switzerland, Evaluation report quick analysis
This is the mission where the Typhoon is ranked almost as good as the Rafale due to superior aircraft performance (apparently mainly related to its high climb rate and capabiliy to supercruise at mach1.4), slightly better pilot workload (Direct voice Input for recurrent basic tasks would explain that) and slighly better engagement (which could be explained by higher altidute/speed/missile max range)
But I am surprised EF scored lower in detection and identification. Overall, both aircraft are similar.
well that is due to rafale's cutting edge avionics suite
 

p2prada

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How on earth are both aircrafts similar according to the Swiss graph?
Look at the little red and blue lines almost always complementing each other.

According to the graph, the EF is better at performance, engagement and work load while Rafale is better at everything else owing to it's superior avionics package as given to the Swiss, in the air policing mode. Hope more info is released for escort, offensive and defensive scenarios. The differences are slight, one point here or there.

Both aircraft simply complement each other.

Not all aircraft made are as similar as EF and Rafale.
 

Drsomnath999

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Rafale weapon load
1)Air defence #1 : 3 RPL 1250L. + 4 Mica EM + 2 Mica IR


2)Interception #1 : 1 RPL 1250L. + 4 Mica EM + 2 Mica IR


3)Anti ship #1 : 2 RPL 1250L. + 1 AM39 Exocet + 4 Mica EM + 2 Mica IR


4)Close Air Support #1 : 3 RPL 1250L. + 6 GBU-12 + 1 Damocles LDP + 2 Mica EM + 2 Mica IR



5)Stand off Strike #1 : 3 RPL 2000L. + 2 Scalp/EG + 2 Mica EM + 2 Mica IR


6)Stand off Strike #2 : 2 RPL 2000L. + 1 Scalp/EG + 4 Mica EM + 2 Mica IR


7)Pinpoint Strike #1 : 2 RPL 2000L. + 2 GBU-24 + 1 Damocles LDP + 2 Mica EM + 4 Mica IR


8)Nuclear Strike : 2 RPL 2000L. + 1 ASMP-A + 4 Mica EM + 2 Mica IR
 

Illusive

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Hey guys whats Data Dissemination, the graph shows all three doing poorly in this front.
 

ace009

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Hmmm - I thought the Gripen was better than the other two on this front.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Disagreement within Defence Ministry over Rafale's lifecycle cost


Less than two months after the Indian Air Force (IAF) chose the French Rafale fighter jet for its medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA)"ˆproject, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) has raised objections over its lifecycle cost, thereby pushing back the date by which the contract could be signed with the manufacturers, Dassault Aviation.

Top IAF sources said the two MoD"ˆmembers on the Contract Negotiations Committee (CNC) have questioned the low lifecycle cost that was earlier worked out in respect of the Rafale which was chosen over the Eurofighter Typhoon for the Air Force's MMRCA programme that envisages supply from Dassault 126 aircraft for a massive $20 billion, the largest open tender military aviation deal in the world.

The sources said that the "differences" that have cropped up among the CNC members are centred around the Rafale's lifecycle cost which the MoD representatives have declared to be far less than what it should be.

"There is no unanimity among the CNC"ˆmembers... and failing a unanimous decision, the Rafale acquisition could well get pushed back," sources said. While the maintenance cost of a Saab-Gripen single engine aircraft is over $3,000 per hour, that of the far superior Rafale could be estimated to be much higher.

The MoD representatives' assessment that a Rafale's lifecycle cost should be higher appears to have stemmed from the defence establishment's historical reliance on Russian aircraft. According to sources, the MoD officials on the CNC"ˆare "not satisfied" with the lower assessment of the lifecycle cost.

The MoD's disagreement with other CNC"ˆmembers comes at a time when the committee will also have to review other "items" involving the Rafale, including the cost of air frame, engine, avionics, weapons system and spare parts support among others. It is learnt that the MoD representatives raised their objections some time after the commercial bids were opened and continued to object to the low computation of a Rafale aircraft's lifecycle cost in some recent meetings of the CNC.

The MoD's maximalist stand is baffling especially after the government recently advised the armed forces to prioritise their capital acquisitions because 70 per cent of funds remain committed to approved purchases. In a situation where only 30 per cent of the available funds are left for purchases, the armed forces have been told "not to push for every deal."

In this context, IAF"ˆsources said that with the Air Force's immediate requirements for jet trainers, new engines for its fleet of Jaguar fighters and heavy and light helicopters as support for ground troops, to pay for the Rafale deal, if the contract has to be signed four to five months from now, "would be a tall order."

Dassault is in the process starting discussions with the vendors to get more clarity on the various offset possibilities and a final proposal on the same is expected to be completed by April-May. The company expects the finalisation of the award by the end of this year.

But a less optimistic senior defence ministry source said that "the 30 per cent funds corpus will not allow accommodating the MMRCA and the funds constraint will leave a big question mark over the fate of the deal," adding that the contract signing stage with Dassault Aviation is "far away".

When contacted over phone, MoD official spoke-sman Sitangshu Kar said,"ˆ"Everything is progressing smoothly. However, I do not have an update over the developments related to the MMRCA"ˆover the last fortnight or so."
MoD raises objections over Rafale’s lifecycle cost
 

p2prada

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Hmmm - I thought the Gripen was better than the other two on this front.
The graph only talks about Air policing, not other aspects.

Anyway Gripen indeed has the best sensor fusion. But it does not have the best sensors due to size, power and weight constraints that afflict all small, single engine aircraft, including F-16 and LCA.

In the Dutch evaluations;
The Rafale was far ahead and almost equivalent to F-35 while Gripen was more or less equivalent to Super Hornet and F-16IN. The IN was slightly ahead compared to SH.



We are getting the Rafale F4 version. According to the Hellinic air force the Rafale F1 was more or less equivalent to the F-16Block 52, but after that exercise Rafale's growth has increased by leaps and bounds. The F1 was the "sucky" version of the Rafale. It had deficiencies. It is equivalent to a tranche 1 Typhoon.
 

ace009

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The graph only talks about Air policing, not other aspects.

Anyway Gripen indeed has the best sensor fusion. But it does not have the best sensors due to size, power and weight constraints that afflict all small, single engine aircraft, including F-16 and LCA.

In the Dutch evaluations;
The Rafale was far ahead and almost equivalent to F-35 while Gripen was more or less equivalent to Super Hornet and F-16IN. The IN was slightly ahead compared to SH.



We are getting the Rafale F4 version. According to the Hellinic air force the Rafale F1 was more or less equivalent to the F-16Block 52, but after that exercise Rafale's growth has increased by leaps and bounds. The F1 was the "sucky" version of the Rafale. It had deficiencies. It is equivalent to a tranche 1 Typhoon.
Those error bars are humongous!
Also, how did they evaluate the EF Tranche 3 - it's not ready yet - or the JSF - which was not provided to the swiss - the Rafale F4 was not there too. So, it seems to be a mix of actual test data and company published data.
 

H.A.

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Somnath sir its information overload for me....i haven't even completed reading your 14 post......
 

weg

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Rafale will best meet India's security needs


The British, particularly, played a very dirty game by planting suspicions in the minds of Rao through their contacts in the Indian intelligence community. It is quite likely that history may repeat itself and a similar 'Psywar' may again start. The only way of pre-empting and preventing it is by pressing ahead with the negotiations with Dassault Aviation and signing the final contract quickly. The longer the delay, the dirtier will be the 'Psywar'.
So.. now that a long and careful selection process has gone through he suggests that the contract is rushed through the price negotiation process, primarily to stop EF from coming back with a counter offer ('Psywar' as he terms it) - which would cut Dassualt's profit margin.

Right.
 
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Armand2REP

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Rafale has the best sensor fusion as OSF, Spectra and RBE2 connect make a clear picture of the battlefield with the MDPU processing power. Only the F-35 is better, which is part of the problem of its rising costs.
 

Drsomnath999

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rafale has the best sensor fusion as osf, spectra and rbe2 connect make a clear picture of the battlefield with the mdpu processing power. Only the f-35 is better, which is part of the problem of its rising costs.
not f35 but f22 may be the correct answer
 

Godless-Kafir

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Rafale has the best sensor fusion as OSF, Spectra and RBE2 connect make a clear picture of the battlefield with the MDPU processing power. Only the F-35 is better, which is part of the problem of its rising costs.
Did you mean F-22 or F-35? For once i agree, the EF looks like a sack of shit. It has no 4.5gen capabilities, the radar is in limbo and the avionics are mediocre at best.
 

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