Know Your 'Rafale'

[BON PLAN]

248 more. That will make 12 squadrons at 24 planes per squadron allowing for spares and downtime and replacement.

Unrealistic. for me, from the MMRCA beginning I said a total of 108. Let's see....

 

[BON PLAN]

For a decades old 4 Gen technology, LM would also be before time, under budget, super spec.

In regards to current technology:
https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/29855-a-record-year-lockheed-martin-delivers-142-f-35s-in-2021

Have a look to the super LM spec :

Wonderfull 5th gen technology !

 

[BON PLAN]

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[BON PLAN]

 

[BON PLAN]

Mediapart can reveal that, alongside this controversial deal, Dassault also agreed to pay one million euros to a middleman who is now under investigation in India in connection with another defence deal. The French anti-corruption agency Agence Française Anticorruption (AFA) discovered this separate arrangement during a routine audit of Dassault.

Sale of French Rafale jet fighters to India: how a state scandal was buried

In 2016 France and India signed a 7.8-billion-euro deal for the purchase of 36 Rafale jet fighters made by French defence group Dassault. Mediapart can reveal that, alongside this controversial deal…

www.mediapart.fr

Mediapart is a french full left tabloid. The guy at the head, Edwy Plenel, was one to say that the Munich Olympic Games terrorist attack was a good thing... You see the level.

 

[BON PLAN]

India paid close to $2 billion dollars to Dassault for NATO system compatibility

are you serious?
Rafale is fully natively built around NATO standard and weapons. It is so NATO compatible that it lands on US carriers without notice.
Stop trolling please.

 

[BON PLAN]

Source ?

You will wait years....

 

[Blademaster]

Unrealistic. for me, from the MMRCA beginning I said a total of 108. Let's see....

Well if it is to be the mainstay of IAF and serve for 30 years, it needs to be 248 more.

 

[NutCracker]

Well if it is to be the mainstay of IAF and serve for 30 years, it needs to be 248 more.

Nope.. its not back bone.. its spearhead.. 27 for navy and 54+(36 existing) for Airforce.. 5 squadrons for AF is good number.

 

[Blademaster]

Nope.. its not back bone.. its spearhead.. 27 for navy and 54+(36 existing) for Airforce.. 5 squadrons for AF is good number.

I disagree. We are not fighting against Pakistan. We are fighting against PLAAF. They have numbers and 5th gen fighters on their side.

 

[BON PLAN]

I disagree. We are not fighting against Pakistan. We are fighting against PLAAF. They have numbers and 5th gen fighters on their side.

There are 2 problems : Money and nationalism. Rafale will be purchased in the lowest possible number the time your own fighter AMCA will be ready.

 

[Blademaster]

There are 2 problems : Money and nationalism. Rafale will be purchased in the lowest possible number the time your own fighter AMCA will be ready.

AMCA is a good 15 years away. If GoI had gone for 140 rafales back in 2014, we would have had 140 rafales by now and it would made sense for GoI to keep increasing its numbers to 240 or 288 or whatever and we would still have the AMCA program because that is a 5th gen fighter program whereas Rafale is 4.5 gen fighter. Not only that, we would have had a domestic production line for Rafale.

 

[Gyyan]

AMCA is a good 15 years away. If GoI had gone for 140 rafales back in 2014, we would have had 140 rafales by now and it would made sense for GoI to keep increasing its numbers to 240 or 288 or whatever and we would still have the AMCA program because that is a 5th gen fighter program whereas Rafale is 4.5 gen fighter. Not only that, we would have had a domestic production line for Rafale.

You need to think of price.
Do you really think IAF only needs fighter jets 250+ rafaels would be around 30 billion dollars while our defence budget was even if we paid in installments it would be a humongous amount.

 

[Blademaster]

The more rafales the cheaper they are. You get economy of scale.

 

[Gyyan]

The more rafales the cheaper they are. You get economy of scale.

I get it.
But you have to keep in minds the funds.
The tot talks would have kept price higher.
The defence budget wasnt for solely IAF.
And there is price of weapons package too.

 

[NutCracker]

The more rafales the cheaper they are. You get economy of scale.

Still won't have been possible. We didn't have enough CAPEX for the order of 114 in single tranche.

Also 290 MKI + 240 Rafale.. OPEX also would've hit the roof with 550 twin engine jets .

 

[Blademaster]

Still won't have been possible. We didn't have enough CAPEX for the order of 114 in single tranche.

Also 290 MKI + 240 Rafale.. OPEX also would've hit the roof with 550 twin engine jets .

Yes but we get a more secured airspace against PLAAF and give us breathing room to produce the AMCA in numbers. I think we could have find a way to fund the acquisition of 140 Rafales in the beginning and push it up to 240. Our growing economy could have supported this.

 

[johnj]

You need to think of price.
Do you really think IAF only needs fighter jets 250+ rafaels would be around 30 billion dollars while our defence budget was even if we paid in installments it would be a humongous amount.
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Yes. under SP model.
IAF needed 126+54 jets under mmrca deal during 2010~2025 timeframe. Only f16, mig35 & gripen comes under 15 billion, means if IAF chosen any one of those, then at least 120+ mmrca in IAF inventory today.

 

[BON PLAN]

You need to think of price.
Do you really think IAF only needs fighter jets 250+ rafaels would be around 30 billion dollars while our defence budget was even if we paid in installments it would be a humongous amount.
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In a french forum I gave some datas about the HAL bill to build a Rafale in India. It was 2,7 more expensive than the french price !
A Rafale built in France, without air base accomodation, no spares, no tools and test bench, no weapon cost around 100€ million with VAT. ie 80 million for export.

HAL is out of the game. Even MKI are probably assembled/built for twice the right price.

 

[BON PLAN]

I get it.
But you have to keep in minds the funds.
The tot talks would have kept price higher.
The defence budget wasnt for solely IAF.
And there is price of weapons package too.

More and more weapons are to be integrated on Rafale. Astra on the way. We hurd some noise about an indian anti radar missile. A glide bomb to follow. Brahmos mini ?
West weapon package will be slawly replace.