Kaveri Engine

[tejas warrior]

Serious question to think about is why do we need 20 complete aero engines with afterburners & condi nozzles where are we going to use them? without afterburners would made sense we can assume it is for Aura.

Kaveri is a working engine no doubt about it with its own performance points it can be used on any plane but will not suffice Naval Tejas as it could not lift the plane in smaller runway(with reasonable payload).

There are no plans for re-engining any other plane in the IAF inventory Mirage has its own upgrades, mig 29 has its own set and also the jaguars.

Then why do we need 20 Engines?

As @Kunal Biswas sir mentioned
"Their is not much detail at this moment, More will come on net soon."

 

[Hari Sud]

Excuse me.. just tell my how many countries in this world are capable of making Jet engine like Kaveri ?
It's Ok if GTRE didn't managed to extract enough thrust for it to make available for Tejas.. but still its a indigenous jet engine.

Success is measured by results. None so far is visible.

 

[Khagesh]

1) Indian Navy is after GTRE's life for around 20 KMGT. Overall the Indian Navy needs 40 Kaveri Marine Gas Turbine Engines + 42 Kaveri Gas Turbine Generators.

2) DRDO had asked for 2 engines for IUSAV testing. The requirement was raised around 5 years back. Had we kept up the investment in Kaveri, we would have been testing IUSAV for Air to Air refueling by now .

3) Probably at least 1 engine will be needed to touch the 81 KN mark with proper documentation of the final form for first 60 odd engines, with at least the lower acceptable life. I expect the life of the Kaveri to go up in later Marks.

4) I also expect to see Kaveri with a new name on the LCA-P1 which HAL is trying to sell to the IAF. Remember no more than ~40 GE engines (F-404) had been ordered for LCA Mk1 and F-404 line has already been closed down. So obviously LCA-P1 will require a similar engine aka Kaveri with a new name. This will force the IAF to consider the LCA-P1 also since the whole complex is very well understood by now. I will not be surprised if in later years the LCA-P1 with Uttam AESA and New Kaveri is offered to Vietnam as a potent filler for their air force. Remember the Defence Line of Credit to Vietnam is a mere 100 million USD (non defence is perhaps 300 million USD). It is currently low because we don't really have anything to offer in the type they would need. Comparatively Bangladesh has now a 2 billion USD line of credit. I won't be surprised if even Bangladesh asks for a Uttam AESA based light combat aircraft.

So 20 is just the start. Aachhe din......aa gaye.

 

[karn]

In this very thread people have been going on about how kaveri will be used in UCAV and now that kaveri is being built everyone is surprised ?

 

[Jagdish58]

80 KN engine can power LCA MK1 with advance avionics , will have good chance for export since uncle sam will red flag use of GE engine for export LCA

Third world countries can afford low cost Tejas to good effect

 

[Khagesh]

Saurav Jha is one very prompt correspondent. Most others would have waited for 2 days before releasing a long write up on one of the news papers.

 

[Jagdish58]

Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) on 15-06-2015 has issued Tender seeking Expression of Interest (EOI) from reputed Indian private / public sector industries / organisations for manufacturing and assembly of 80 kN thrust class engine consisting about 20000 number of components and parts.

Tender document which idrw.org has gone though informs that GTRE is developing an aero gas turbine engines, with an objective of manufacturing and assembly of 80 kN thrust class engine prototypes (20 engines) over a period of 3-4 years.

The tender also clarifies that Expression of Interest (EOI) will only accepted from the ” reputed Indian private / public sector industries / organisations who have the expertise in this field”. Tender interestingly does not classify it has a Kaveri afterburning turbofan engine which was given quiet burial after it was delinked from LCA Project.

Development of 80 kN thrust class engine is an interesting development since Tejas MK-1/MK-2 require higher engines in the range of 85kN to 98Kn thrust class and India’s AMCA 5th gen fighter project requires 110kN thrust class engine. Speculation is ripe that the new engine might be used on Regional Transport Aircraft (RTA) which India is planning to field by 2020.

HAL and NAL have taken the lead to build RTA with 70-90 seater aircraft on a public-private partnership (PPP) model. HAL and NAL have been searching for a suitable engine for India’s ambitious programme to build a civilian aircraft.

HAL estimates that such an engine will be required around 2017 time-frame and GTRE tender documents are keen to develop 20 80 kN thrust class engine in similar time frame. idrw.org also like to point out that HAL was actually in search of Proven engine technology from global vendors which had responded to its RFI (Request for Information ) issued few years back and were eager to partner with one of the established engine manufacturers.

GTRE is yet to clarify actual usage of the engine but only viable project which fits the bill is India’s RTA aircraft project, but it could be speculation till we get for information on actual usage of engine.

http://idrw.org/gtre-issues-tender-to-manufacture-20-80-kn-thrust-class-engines/#more-66900

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

there are two possibilities for this 80kn engine
1) lca p1( lca mk1 with aesa radar and advance ew suite)
2) rta

 

[Chinmoy]

Serious question to think about is why do we need 20 complete aero engines with afterburners & condi nozzles where are we going to use them? without afterburners would made sense we can assume it is for Aura.

Kaveri is a working engine no doubt about it with its own performance points it can be used on any plane but will not suffice Naval Tejas as it could not lift the plane in smaller runway(with reasonable payload).

There are no plans for re-engining any other plane in the IAF inventory Mirage has its own upgrades, mig 29 has its own set and also the jaguars.

Then why do we need 20 Engines?

Did we forgot about Nirbhay Cruise Missile? It does need a turbofan engine and i think Kaveri is an ideal bet for it.

 

[aero_sp]

Did we forgot about Nirbhay Cruise Missile? It does need a turbofan engine and i think Kaveri is an ideal bet for it.

Nirbhya required only 20 or 25 KN engine kavery is very big for that

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Tapatalk

 

[Chinmoy]

Yeah, and I think the recent EOI should outline this too. As far as news report and blogs to be considered, I am sure that something is also going on on that front.

 

[Illusive]

I think it'd be better if Kaveri is tested and only used with unmanned aircraft, everybody know that developing engine is tough, but imagine we loose a pilot while testing these, given how Indian media, politics and lobbies work in this country, there'd be a lot of pressure to shut down this programme or at least hinder its progress.

This programme is way too transparent now. There will be part failures, though computer simulations has somehow helped reduce it, still one mistake in production quality analysis and the whole engine would break down.

So its not just the development but also manufacturing on large scale which needs be carefully mastered.

 

[Chirag]

Sir
I have heard the new engines mosty be tested on twin engine module in which one is tried, tested and most reliable. Without proper testing facilities we can never achieve our goals and once the production of the engines for unmaned aircrafts starts it will definitely gives opportunities to overcome the problems. India widely needs a successful engine for self reliance and arm business purposes and we can only hope that present govt carry on the project and facilitate GTRE good enough in terms of infrastructure and money. Success can never be achieved by merely hyperbolic statements..

 

[myana]

We have 3 types of twin engine fighter
i) su30mki has each engine is of 123kN thrust and entirely of different class so Kaveri cant be fit on it.
ii) mig29(upg) has each engine is of 82kN thrust whose performance & weight is almost equal to kaveri (Kaveri has fadec which is always better). It is best suited for flight testing of Kaveri
iii) jaguar has each engine is of 38kN thrust adding a engine of 80kN is overkill and also requires major redesign to fit in a larger engine.
imho gtre will first they will fit an engine of mig29, after success then graduate to replace 2 engines of mig29 and finally fit in one of the Tejas.
to this in entirety they will hardly need 4 + 4(spare) engines. But the tender is for 20 engines.

And also from idrw article it states they are thinking of using kaveri for HAL&NAL RTA plane but there is a major flaw in the argument even though the requirement is for 80kN engine why would a passenger plane use a low-bypass engine whose sfc would be higher instead would use a high-bypass engine for same thrust would have low sfc & more economical for flying. And also dry thrust of the Kaveri is ~54kN and wet thrust ~82kN, passenger jet doesn't need a after burner and if it requires 80kN engine then 80kN has to be dry thrust not the wet thrust.

Still tender for 20 engines is mystery. Unless they are planning to use them in Aura and they dont want people to come to conclusion by seeing the tender directly if the tender is for 20 engines without afterburners.

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

30 charactrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[halloweene]

uh can anyone translate please (crores)

 

[Illusive]

uh can anyone translate please (crores)

Over $400million.
http://www.kshitij.com/utilities/LnCtoMnB.shtml

 

[Illusive]

...............................

 

[Yumdoot]

Wish you people a Happy Janamashtami.

 

[kstriya]

Experts, now that HAL is all set to reduce the weight of Tejas MK1 by almost a ton why cannot we integrate the Kaveri GTRE engine with 75kn. It will save us a lot of forex instead of buying GE engines. We can later improve its performance or add 3D TVC in later MK's.