Kaveri Engine

republic_roi97

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WTF??:shock: jet engine in trains.. Indian railway has electrified many routes/trains to cut coal and diesel dependency... whats the point in having a fossil fuel powered(jet engine) train again:crazy::crazy:..
:biggrin2::biggrin2:No my friend, that Turbofan engine technology can be used to build a gas turbine-electric motor (GTEL) for trains and other types of gas turbine engine (smaller) that can power anything from a heavy tank to a heavy lifting truck to big big ships. This Kaveri Gas Turbine engine would prove revolutionary for India's self reliance in all kinds of Gas Turbine based propulsion systems.:india2:
 

airtel

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WTF??:shock: jet engine in trains.. Indian railway has electrified many routes/trains to cut coal and diesel dependency... whats the point in having a fossil fuel powered(jet engine) train again:crazy::crazy:..

PRABHU THORA DIMAAG KO ARAAM DO..
i think in Maintain Areas these Engines will be more efficient .

Americans are Using Turboprop Engines Even in Tanks .
 

republic_roi97

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Americans are Using Turboprop Engines Even in Tanks .
Americans are not using turboprop engines to power their Abrams, because Turboprop engines are used to power aircraft propellers:biggrin2::biggrin2:.
The correct term would be a Gas Turbine engine.
 

republic_roi97

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WTF??:shock: jet engine in trains.. Indian railway has electrified many routes/trains to cut coal and diesel dependency... whats the point in having a fossil fuel powered(jet engine) train again:crazy::crazy:..

PRABHU THORA DIMAAG KO ARAAM DO..
i think in Maintain Areas these Engines will be more efficient .
We are already building and using Gas Turbine based engines as powerful as 5500 horses.
Search for WDP4, WDG4 series engines, these are built in India, with ToT from USA,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_GT46MAC

This is newest one, known as WDG5.
 

airtel

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Americans are not using turboprop engines to power their Abrams, because Turboprop engines are used to power aircraft propellers:biggrin2::biggrin2:.
The correct term would be a Gas Turbine engine.
Thanks ........

why rest of the world is using diesel engines in tanks ??

DRDO was busy in making 1500 Hp diesel engines For tanks .
 

republic_roi97

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why rest of the world is using diesel engines in tanks ??
Because of its cost and low fuel efficiency, however, fuel efficiency business is being taken care of in newer generation Gas Turbine of A1 but now they are also working on a Diesel Engine to power the Abrams because it 15% more efficient than the Gas Turbine that it would replace.
 

Akask kumar

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:biggrin2::biggrin2:No my friend, that Turbofan engine technology can be used to build a gas turbine-electric motor (GTEL) for trains and other types of gas turbine engine (smaller) that can power anything from a heavy tank to a heavy lifting truck to big big ships. This Kaveri Gas Turbine engine would prove revolutionary for India's self reliance in all kinds of Gas Turbine based propulsion systems.:india2:
i think in Maintain Areas these Engines will be more efficient .

Americans are Using Turboprop Engines Even in Tanks .
but you need fossil fuel.. we progressed from diesel engines to electric engines and again back to the the same fossil fuel ..

i Hope such engines will be restricted to freight trains AKA maal gaadi ..as their power demand is quite high when compared with passenger trains

on side note .Dont you think jet fuel will be more expensive,reducing the railway profits..
 

Chinmoy

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but you need fossil fuel.. we progressed from diesel engines to electric engines and again back to the the same fossil fuel ..

i Hope such engines will be restricted to freight trains AKA maal gaadi ..as their power demand is quite high when compared with passenger trains

on side note .Dont you think jet fuel will be more expensive,reducing the railway profits..
They don't use jet fuel aka Kerosene, but the very old Diesel only in those engine. Only their core is that of gas turbine engine. Moreover these are for lugging heavy boggies, not for light freight.
 

Akask kumar

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They don't use jet fuel aka Kerosene, but the very old Diesel only in those engine. Only their core is that of gas turbine engine. Moreover these are for lugging heavy boggies, not for light freight.
u cleared the confusion .. this new engine must be fuel efficient than conventional railway diesel engines..
 

republic_roi97

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u cleared the confusion .. this new engine must be fuel efficient than conventional railway diesel engines..
Well we have been using these GTEL locos for quiet some time now, however, since we are going off topic, I would just put forward this link for you, :-
BTW this engine is WDP-4 we have been using them since 1999.
Ones Kaveri is complete, and its technology is used to make engines for such locos, we'll reduce the price of locos drastically in India. Kaveri Gas Turbine would also reduce the expenses for a passenger ones it gets implemented in Locos. I am waiting for that day.
 

Kunal Biswas

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@Alok Arya, Its hard to predict the exact specs of this new design based on older design, Their wont be many changes to original design though, It was said the new engine will have 90kn re-heated thrust, Government have allocated Rs 2,600 crore to develop the modified engine.

Kunal sir can you comment on dry , wet thrust and core temperature of this joint snecma gtre engine . This project lead to attainment of original Kaveri goal of 1847 c of core temperature leading to 62 kn dry and 95 - 100 kn wet thrust leading to spercruise of Tejas as originally planned or they have fixed some other goals .
 

Kunal Biswas

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The Failed Negotiations with Snecma for Engine Technology
By Appu K. Soman / In Featured, Short Posts / March 13, 2013

In the midst of sundry scams relating to defence procurement, the cut in the 2012-13 defence budget, and the usual handwringing over delays in various defence projects, an announcement with huge implications for India's search for self-reliance in defence production went unnoticed. Early this year, AjaiShukla, the Business Standard's defence correspondent, reported that the negotiation with the French company Snecma (the maker of the engine for the Dassault Rafale aircraft) for collaboration on India's Kaveri engine had collapsed. Perhaps because nobody has(so far)leveled allegations of corruption, the media and even defence analysts took no notice. But even a cursory look at this negotiation raises the suspicion that all was not above board.

The Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE), a unit of the Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO), has been working on the Kaveri turbofan engine for the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) since the 1980s. The LCA first flew in January 2001, powered by a US engine as an interim measure. DRDO did manage to build the Kaveri engine. Unfortunately, the engine failed its high altitude tests in 2005. Even if the Kaveri had performed well, it still would have been inadequate for its original purpose of powering the LCA. What the GTRE had succeeded was in developing an engine using 1970s technology according to specifications fixed in the early 1980s. In the meanwhile, the LCA had become heavier than anticipated, necessitating a more powerful engine. To enhance its power without increasing its size and weight, GTRE needed new technologies that advanced countries had developed in the intervening years for its "hot section"—mainly single crystal turbine blades, "blisk" (integrated rotor disk and blades) and thermal barrier coating for the blades.

In 2006, MoD decided to seek foreign collaboration from reputed foreign engine manufacturers to produce an improved Kaveri. The problem is that countries do not part with such technologies easily. But India had an ace up its sleeve: its proposed medium multirole combat aircraft (MMRCA) deal.Back in 2008, it was reportedthat DRDO had presented MoD a technology wish list, to be obtained in the form of offsets for defence acquisitions. MoD, however, preferred to buy these technologies as part of the contracts for the import of weapons systems. Accordingly, the RfP for the MMRCA deal reportedly prescribed the technologies the winning vendor must part with. Aero engine technology was surely the military technology India needed the most. As it has been widely reported, losing the MMRCA deal would have made the survival of several of the bidders as combat aircraft manufacturers doubtful. Considering these stakes, the MMRCA bid offered India the best leverage to obtain advanced aero-engine technology from the winner.

But the government of India does not believe in using its leverage in bargaining for what it needs most. It issued a stand-alone RfP for collaboration for developing an improved Kaveri in 2006. A separate RfP for the MMRCA deal followed a year later. The US General Electric (GE) and Britain's Rolls Royce refused any form of participation. America's Pratt&Whitney is on record having expressed its willingness to aid the Kaveri project.

But later reports said it was willing to participate only as a consultant. In 2008, MoD selected Snecma over Russia's NPO Saturn as the collaborator for the Kaveri. It was reported that it would take 4 years to develop and certify a new engine, after which the technology would be transferred to GTRE. MoD entered into separate negotiations with Snecma on this deal even as it was processing the MMRCA proposals.

These negotiations dragged onfor more than three years. Meanwhile, the Dassault Rafale, powered by a Snecma engine, emerged as the lowest bidder among those shortlisted for the MMRCA and MoD began contract negotiations with it. Was Snecma playing a game, waiting for the finalization of the Rafale deal? It would seem so. It appeared that in a bizarre twist, at this stage India had allowed France to make the Rafale deal an offset for the engine technology deal.


As what was thought to be price negotiations with Snecma progressed, it also appeared thatSnecma was really offering the "ECO" core it had already developed and that it would pass on the technology to the DRDO only after 15 years. Considering the pace at which engine technology progresses, the know-how, by the time Snecma transferred it to GTRE, would have become obsolete. MoD rejected this proposal. Evaluation of the MMRCA contenders was then going on. Snecma quickly climbed down, agreeing to ToT as soon as GTRE could absorb it.

MoD then began negotiations with Snecma for a joint venture for the development of the Kaveri. Minister of State for DefencePallamRajutold Business Standard: "(Snecma) is willing to co-develop an engine with us; they are willing to go beyond just transfer of technology. It is a value-added offer that gives us better technology than what we would get from ToT from Eurojet(the maker of the Typhoon's engine) or GE." This was misleading.

GE and Eurojet were not contenders for the collaboration with GTRE. The technology they were offering was part of a deal for the import of 99 engines for the LCA Mark II. The kind of technologies sought for the collaboration on the Kaveri engine were not sought for this deal. Officially, no specifics of what technologies Snecma would offer have been disclosed. A senior DRDO official said two years ago that the work share between GTRE and Snecma would be 50:50; that price negotiations would be completed "within a month"; and that GTRE would gain the intellectual property rights for the new engine. Aviation Week reported in March 2012 that an agreement on the joint venture to develop and build a 20,230-lb-thrust engine would be reached by June that year. Snecma would provide "exhaustive know-how" on the technologies and manufacturing processes GTRE lacked, the sources for the report claimed.

In early January this year came the news that MoD has dropped the proposed deal with Snecma. No reason has been reported for this unexpected development. Quite likely Snecma raised the cost of its technologies or refused to pass on the intellectual property rights for the new engine to GTRE as it seems to have promised earlier. At this point, it looks like a classic case of bait and switch. It is hard not to conclude that Snecma was stringing India along with promises it had no intention of keeping, until almost the end of the Rafale price negotiations, and revealed its hands when it could no longer put MoD off. Snecma, by bidding for the collaboration, prolonging the negotiations for several years, and finally hardening its position, has made India's engine development programme lose precious time.

The decision to build a 20,230-lb-thrust engine is also questionable. Such an engine would be inadequate for India's future needs. The 22,000lb thrust GE engine is being procured for the initial batch of the LCA Mark II ordered by the IAF. The improved Kaveri, with a 10 per cent less thrust, would not be adequate for later batches of the LCA, should the IAF decide to order more of them. It is also doubtful if it would be suitable for the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) which India is planning.

The AMCA, a stealth aircraft, would need to have an internal weapons bay, fairly high internal fuel capacity, and supercruise capability. If the LCA program imparted any lesson to Indian military planners, it is that the AMCA is going to turn out to be heavier than now planned. Developing a 20,000lb class engine now for it makes no sense. Presumably, it is the maximum level to which Snecma's ECO core can be developed.

As Air Marshall Philip Rajkumar (rtd.) recounts in his book The Tejas Story, the DRDO and the IAF had a falling out in the 1980s over the choice of partners for developing the LCA's flight control system. The IAF wanted to go with Dassault, while the DRDO preferred Lockheed Martin. This disagreement had caused the IAF to wage a decades-long cold war against the DRDO and the LCA project in particular. Quite possibly,DRDO bought peace with the IAF by accepting the latter's preference for Snecma.

In the wake of the VVIP chopper scam, Defence Minister A. K. Antony has promised corrective action. He cannot act until he finds out what really happens behind the scenes in the procurement process. The complete lack of transparency in all matters relating to defence makes it easy for unscrupulous elements to manipulate the system. Antony must order a thorough inquiry into the whole Kaveri-Snecma saga. Several questions relating to this affair need answers.

Who was pushing for delinking the Kaveri collaboration from the MMRCA tender? What specifically did Snecma offer in its response to the RfP, and at what price? Why did the negotiations drag on for so many years, and on what basis were predictions of imminent agreement fed to the media on a regular basis (see here and here)? What were the reasons for the termination of the negotiations? This charade could not have gone on for so long unless senior levels of the GTRE, MoD, and the IAF were involved. A top-to-bottom shakeup in the MoD, DRDO, and the services would inspire some confidence that it is not going to be, once again, business as usual.



About the author:

Appu Kuttan Soman is a diplomatic historian, and was a Research Fellow at the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs at the Harvard Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University from 2007-2009. His research interests include arms control, nuclear history, and South Asian security. He is the author of Double-Edged Sword: Nuclear Diplomacy in Unequal Conflicts: The United States and China, 1950-1958 (Praeger, 2000), and Through the Looking Glass: Diplomacy, Indian Style. He holds a PhD in US diplomatic history from Vanderbilt University and master's in Psychology and bachelor's in History and Psychology from Andhra University in India. He was an Associate of the Charles Warren Center for Studies in American History at Harvard University from 1995-1997.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shared by @ersakthivel , Its a old article from the times of MMRCA competition but worth reading..

Read the article very carefully to understand these tactics, I hope this Government play wisely..

Source : http://centreright.in/2013/03/the-f...th-snecma-for-engine-technology/#.UtkUGUoQPaR

DRDO ties up with Snecma to revive gas turbine engine for Tejas



India’s defence research agency has signed a deal with French engine maker Snecma to revive and certify the Kaveri engine, before powering a flight of Tejas light combat aircraft prototype by 2018.

Snecma, as part of the offsets deal for the 36 Rafale jets India bought for its air force, would handhold the Gas turbine and research establishment (GTRE), which has designed Kaveri, to fix gaps in its performance, address safety concerns, certify and fly it on a Tejas light combat aircraft. The Rs 600 odd crore expense for Snecma, which powers the Rafale jets, would be adjusted against the 50 per cent offsets that it is mandated to spend in India.

The Kaveri project has been on the backburner for nearly a decade after GTRE, an agency of Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), struggled to reduce its weight and improve its performance needed to power the fighter. So far, the government has spent Rs 2,100 crore on the engine that has tested on ground for over 3,000 hours and around 30 hours on a IL-76 transport plane in Russia. It has a marine variant that the Navy is testing and it is in talks with Bharat Heavy Electricals Ltd and the Indian Railways to power rail engines.

“Once the engine houses make it a flightworthy engine, we have numerous programmes coming up and there is more than one place for it to be fitted. The question is whether we will be able to fit it into only the LCA or will we be able to get it into the (GE) 414 with the higher power is a point that we are raising,” said C P Ramanarayanan, DRDO Director General for Aeronautics cluster said.

The Indian Air Force has ordered for over 120 single engine Tejas fighters powered by a General Electric 404 engine, the powerplant the aircraft first flew in January 2001. So far the Tejas has flown nearly 3,300 sorties, which includes sorties by IAF chief Arup Raha and the air chief of Turkmenistan.

An upgraded Mark-2 aircraft of Tejas is being designed for a more heavier GE-414 engine by 2025, and the DRDO hopes that the upgraded Kaveri would qualify for the plane by then.

If not, the Kaveri would power other programmes such as Ghatak, the unmanned combat aircraft vehicle of UCAV, for which studies have begun by the research agency.

“So we have Ghatak in our hand, we have so many other programmes coming up. Anyway we have to have indigenous engine development also. All that we are trying to do is trying to allocate one of the prototype for this and make use of some of the offset for this hand holding if possible,” said Ramnarayanan.


India is among the few countries in the world such as Russia, Britain, US and France to have capabilities to build a gas turbine engine.

The chief of Aeronautical Development Agency Commodore C D Balaji said that the agency expects around 40 aircraft of the 123 planes ordered by the IAF would be delivered by 2020 and the remaining 83 by 2025. He said the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd is doubling its production of Tejas to 16 from eight.

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...-turbine-engine-for-tejas-116112000534_1.html
 

lcafanboy

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The Failed Negotiations with Snecma for Engine Technology
By Appu K. Soman / In Featured, Short Posts / March 13, 2013

In the midst of sundry scams relating to defence procurement, the cut in the 2012-13 defence budget, and the usual handwringing over delays in various defence projects, an announcement with huge implications for India's search for self-reliance in defence production went unnoticed. Early this year, AjaiShukla, the Business Standard's defence correspondent, reported that the negotiation with the French company Snecma (the maker of the engine for the Dassault Rafale aircraft) for collaboration on India's Kaveri engine had collapsed. Perhaps because nobody has(so far)leveled allegations of corruption, the media and even defence analysts took no notice. But even a cursory look at this negotiation raises the suspicion that all was not above board.

The Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE), a unit of the Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO), has been working on the Kaveri turbofan engine for the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) since the 1980s. The LCA first flew in January 2001, powered by a US engine as an interim measure. DRDO did manage to build the Kaveri engine. Unfortunately, the engine failed its high altitude tests in 2005. Even if the Kaveri had performed well, it still would have been inadequate for its original purpose of powering the LCA. What the GTRE had succeeded was in developing an engine using 1970s technology according to specifications fixed in the early 1980s. In the meanwhile, the LCA had become heavier than anticipated, necessitating a more powerful engine. To enhance its power without increasing its size and weight, GTRE needed new technologies that advanced countries had developed in the intervening years for its "hot section"—mainly single crystal turbine blades, "blisk" (integrated rotor disk and blades) and thermal barrier coating for the blades.

In 2006, MoD decided to seek foreign collaboration from reputed foreign engine manufacturers to produce an improved Kaveri. The problem is that countries do not part with such technologies easily. But India had an ace up its sleeve: its proposed medium multirole combat aircraft (MMRCA) deal.Back in 2008, it was reportedthat DRDO had presented MoD a technology wish list, to be obtained in the form of offsets for defence acquisitions. MoD, however, preferred to buy these technologies as part of the contracts for the import of weapons systems. Accordingly, the RfP for the MMRCA deal reportedly prescribed the technologies the winning vendor must part with. Aero engine technology was surely the military technology India needed the most. As it has been widely reported, losing the MMRCA deal would have made the survival of several of the bidders as combat aircraft manufacturers doubtful. Considering these stakes, the MMRCA bid offered India the best leverage to obtain advanced aero-engine technology from the winner.

But the government of India does not believe in using its leverage in bargaining for what it needs most. It issued a stand-alone RfP for collaboration for developing an improved Kaveri in 2006. A separate RfP for the MMRCA deal followed a year later. The US General Electric (GE) and Britain's Rolls Royce refused any form of participation. America's Pratt&Whitney is on record having expressed its willingness to aid the Kaveri project.

But later reports said it was willing to participate only as a consultant. In 2008, MoD selected Snecma over Russia's NPO Saturn as the collaborator for the Kaveri. It was reported that it would take 4 years to develop and certify a new engine, after which the technology would be transferred to GTRE. MoD entered into separate negotiations with Snecma on this deal even as it was processing the MMRCA proposals.

These negotiations dragged onfor more than three years. Meanwhile, the Dassault Rafale, powered by a Snecma engine, emerged as the lowest bidder among those shortlisted for the MMRCA and MoD began contract negotiations with it. Was Snecma playing a game, waiting for the finalization of the Rafale deal? It would seem so. It appeared that in a bizarre twist, at this stage India had allowed France to make the Rafale deal an offset for the engine technology deal.


As what was thought to be price negotiations with Snecma progressed, it also appeared thatSnecma was really offering the "ECO" core it had already developed and that it would pass on the technology to the DRDO only after 15 years. Considering the pace at which engine technology progresses, the know-how, by the time Snecma transferred it to GTRE, would have become obsolete. MoD rejected this proposal. Evaluation of the MMRCA contenders was then going on. Snecma quickly climbed down, agreeing to ToT as soon as GTRE could absorb it.

MoD then began negotiations with Snecma for a joint venture for the development of the Kaveri. Minister of State for DefencePallamRajutold Business Standard: "(Snecma) is willing to co-develop an engine with us; they are willing to go beyond just transfer of technology. It is a value-added offer that gives us better technology than what we would get from ToT from Eurojet(the maker of the Typhoon's engine) or GE." This was misleading.

GE and Eurojet were not contenders for the collaboration with GTRE. The technology they were offering was part of a deal for the import of 99 engines for the LCA Mark II. The kind of technologies sought for the collaboration on the Kaveri engine were not sought for this deal. Officially, no specifics of what technologies Snecma would offer have been disclosed. A senior DRDO official said two years ago that the work share between GTRE and Snecma would be 50:50; that price negotiations would be completed "within a month"; and that GTRE would gain the intellectual property rights for the new engine. Aviation Week reported in March 2012 that an agreement on the joint venture to develop and build a 20,230-lb-thrust engine would be reached by June that year. Snecma would provide "exhaustive know-how" on the technologies and manufacturing processes GTRE lacked, the sources for the report claimed.

In early January this year came the news that MoD has dropped the proposed deal with Snecma. No reason has been reported for this unexpected development. Quite likely Snecma raised the cost of its technologies or refused to pass on the intellectual property rights for the new engine to GTRE as it seems to have promised earlier. At this point, it looks like a classic case of bait and switch. It is hard not to conclude that Snecma was stringing India along with promises it had no intention of keeping, until almost the end of the Rafale price negotiations, and revealed its hands when it could no longer put MoD off. Snecma, by bidding for the collaboration, prolonging the negotiations for several years, and finally hardening its position, has made India's engine development programme lose precious time.

The decision to build a 20,230-lb-thrust engine is also questionable. Such an engine would be inadequate for India's future needs. The 22,000lb thrust GE engine is being procured for the initial batch of the LCA Mark II ordered by the IAF. The improved Kaveri, with a 10 per cent less thrust, would not be adequate for later batches of the LCA, should the IAF decide to order more of them. It is also doubtful if it would be suitable for the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) which India is planning.

The AMCA, a stealth aircraft, would need to have an internal weapons bay, fairly high internal fuel capacity, and supercruise capability. If the LCA program imparted any lesson to Indian military planners, it is that the AMCA is going to turn out to be heavier than now planned. Developing a 20,000lb class engine now for it makes no sense. Presumably, it is the maximum level to which Snecma's ECO core can be developed.

As Air Marshall Philip Rajkumar (rtd.) recounts in his book The Tejas Story, the DRDO and the IAF had a falling out in the 1980s over the choice of partners for developing the LCA's flight control system. The IAF wanted to go with Dassault, while the DRDO preferred Lockheed Martin. This disagreement had caused the IAF to wage a decades-long cold war against the DRDO and the LCA project in particular. Quite possibly,DRDO bought peace with the IAF by accepting the latter's preference for Snecma.

In the wake of the VVIP chopper scam, Defence Minister A. K. Antony has promised corrective action. He cannot act until he finds out what really happens behind the scenes in the procurement process. The complete lack of transparency in all matters relating to defence makes it easy for unscrupulous elements to manipulate the system. Antony must order a thorough inquiry into the whole Kaveri-Snecma saga. Several questions relating to this affair need answers.

Who was pushing for delinking the Kaveri collaboration from the MMRCA tender? What specifically did Snecma offer in its response to the RfP, and at what price? Why did the negotiations drag on for so many years, and on what basis were predictions of imminent agreement fed to the media on a regular basis (see here and here)? What were the reasons for the termination of the negotiations? This charade could not have gone on for so long unless senior levels of the GTRE, MoD, and the IAF were involved. A top-to-bottom shakeup in the MoD, DRDO, and the services would inspire some confidence that it is not going to be, once again, business as usual.



About the author:

Appu Kuttan Soman is a diplomatic historian, and was a Research Fellow at the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs at the Harvard Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University from 2007-2009. His research interests include arms control, nuclear history, and South Asian security. He is the author of Double-Edged Sword: Nuclear Diplomacy in Unequal Conflicts: The United States and China, 1950-1958 (Praeger, 2000), and Through the Looking Glass: Diplomacy, Indian Style. He holds a PhD in US diplomatic history from Vanderbilt University and master's in Psychology and bachelor's in History and Psychology from Andhra University in India. He was an Associate of the Charles Warren Center for Studies in American History at Harvard University from 1995-1997.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shared by @ersakthivel , Its a old article from the times of MMRCA competition but worth reading..

Read the article very carefully to understand these tactics, I hope this Government play wisely..

Source : http://centreright.in/2013/03/the-f...th-snecma-for-engine-technology/#.UtkUGUoQPaR
The French tried to scam India under Congress Government. As soon as they won won MMRCA deal they backtracked from engine TOT. But Modi government cancelled the deal gave a bigger lollipop (deal for around 300 Rafales for both IAF and IN now with MII) and arm twisted Frenchies to adhere to engine TOT. Also to make sure they provide proper TOT the deal has been kept on hold and is being progressed with milestones achieved. If Rafale deal is to be signed in JAN then Kaveri engine is almost done only testing on actual fighter remains, since Snecma itself claimed they need only 18 months to get Kaveri working and almost that much time has passed since Modi made announcement in France.
 

Prashant12

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French boost to jet engine plan, Kaveri project being revived

NEW DELHI: India’s quest to develop its own fighter jet engine got a leg up after a $2-million consultancy agreement was finalised with leading French defence manufacturer Safran to help revive the Kaveri project.

The project stalled in 2014 after the Kaveri gas turbine engine developed for combat planes and unmanned aircraft was unable to provide the required power thrust — a fact French experts expect to correct after study.

Initial assessments by the French company show that 25-30% more work is needed for the Kaveri engine to be combat-worthy.

A detailed joint development plan will be drawn up that could use offset credits — the obligation is 50% of contract cost, which translates to over 3 billion euros — coming from the Rafale fighter jet deal.

As reported by ET in July, France has offered a 1-billion euro investment to revive the project. Several rounds of discussions have already taken place since January between Safran, which has developed the M88 engines for Rafale, and Indian developers.

Apart from the initial consultancy fees, India may not need to spend on development as the French side has proposed to make the Kaveri flight-worthy within 18 months for integration into the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft by 2020.

The Indian Air Force is committed to buying at least 80 of the LCA Mk 1A fighters that will meet higher technical requirements than the version inducted this year.

The aircraft is currently powered by American GE 404 engines that faced a procurement delay after the nuclear tests in 1998, causing a setback to the Tejas programme. A joint working group on jet engine technology has also been formed with the US under the Defence Technology and Trade Initiative (DTTI).

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...roject-being-revived/articleshow/55694504.cms
 

swap

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For a billion dollar? , the overall cost of kaveri project is 640 million dollar . Trial and error with proper funding is the only way to venture into the cutting edge technology . GTRE doesn't even have a dedicated platform to carry out required tests, how can one expect them to produce a viable engine . The fact that they've been able to produce nine prototypes in spite of such a meagre funding is in itself a miracle .

No country would give its crown jewels,especially to a potential competitor , just as we would not help the South Koreans who are struggling with their space launch vehicles .Knowledge is a deposit of trials and errors , One can not just buy experience ,It has to be cultivated. India has to get out of this cycle of underfunding and over expecting

That being said one hopes this 'consultancy' achieves its intended objective.
 

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