Kaveri Engine

[SATISH]

Kaveri is not going into LCA. End of story. Reliable sources say that and The head of ADA also told in the latest press release. The Kaveri with a redesigned core is meant for MCA.

 

[badguy2000]

Kaveri is not going into LCA. End of story. Reliable sources say that and The head of ADA also told in the latest press release. The Kaveri with a redesigned core is meant for MCA.

if the "core" is to be redisgned, then it will be a new project still tagged a old name of "Kavery" ,in fact.

 

[badguy2000]

Listen chum, it seems you have trouble understanding plain English !! I clearly said that don't go by Mr. Ajai Shukla's words, he is as good as a nobody !! Also, even I have mentioned that the Kaveri is still under development, not functional. And now Snecma has joined in to help in the development, which will help us get a better version of the Kaveri probably by sometime around 2014-15 and will be surely incorporated in the LCA Mark-2 as its standard engine. The links in my previous post will show that the final version Kaveri under development will have a T/W ratio of around 7.8. And, please don't give that shit about "since we couldn't do it, even you wouldn't be able to do it" !! We also know how difficult it is to design and manufacture a fourth genr. aircraft's jet engine, we are struggling with it for 30 years, and that's the reason why we have accepted outside help, i.e. from Snecma of France to realize our goal in the required time. And again, low T/W ratio wouldn't harm the LCA so much as it is a very lightweight fighter and not a heavy one !

others will not stay still and wait for India.

As I said, USA/UK are developing 15.0-20.0 level engine;
Russia/France are developing 10.0 level engine
China has been developing 10.0 level engine ( for CHinese 5G bird) for decades too ,with 8.0 level engine(WS10) in service
now.

In 2020 ,the rank of engine tech in the world won't change much.
USA will be still the overlord ,far ahead of others. then UK is the second. UK and USA both can produce 15.0 level engine at that time, although UK can not produce big engine.


Russia ,France and CHina can produce 10.0+ level engine while France can not produce big engines.

as for India....if smoothly,India might promote its engine's T/W ratio from 6.0 to 8.0

 

[Agantrope]

Kaveri is not going into LCA. End of story. Reliable sources say that and The head of ADA also told in the latest press release. The Kaveri with a redesigned core is meant for MCA.

No harm in that. for making 150+ LCA it will take atleast 10 years. wont that be enough for cooking a new enginewith fully operational capacity, JV, blah blah.

No sooner MCA is going see the sky in atleast say 5 years, i ll bet anyone. This will give some enough time for making an engine that suits the requirement

Moreover after 10-15 years the LCA may need upgrade by the it will come in handy.:sporty55:

Remember aero-engine is not a Dosai to make in desirable amount of time, It may take lot time when we are not experienced as well as when limited resource are lotted

 

[sandeepdg]

Forget it Armand, this BG kid is a total fanatic who loves to rant shit ! God knows which damn engine is he talking about that will generate a T/W ratio 0f 15-20 !!! The only thing that is some what close to this chum's claim is that of the scramjet engine on the experimental X-43 hypersonic research vehicle being tested by NASA which is said to have a T/W ratio of 15-20 ! But then that's a scramjet, not a regular jet engine !!!

 

[neo29]

can anyone confirm kaveri will not be used in LCA?? already snecma offer help with kaveri so the situation should be different now

assuming kaveri is not put in LCA. better we do partnership with snecma or anyone else to develop kaveri to power the MCA. we just cant keep delaying our indigenous fighters at the cost of engine problems. we should get the kaveri developed fast to avoid delays in MCA

 

[nitesh]

Well I don't know about latest view but Kaveri is supposed to be in LCA retred AFM Rajkumar says it will be a possibility post 2015 (Don't remember exactly what he written) in his book The Tejas Story.

 

[neo29]

the Kaveri will be used in MCA. well thats the plan for now. Kaveri currently produces 52 kn thrust. thats far less for 5th gen out of question. even not deemed fit for LCA

the f-22 raptors f119 have 160kn thrust per engine. what are our chances to make kaveri capable to deliver so much power for the MCA???. And even if we achieve, it would surely take years in the making along with the help of snecma.

arent we jeopardizing the MCA project just like we did for the LCA project ?? if we are not capable of delivering the engines on time, rather buy it from someone. if US doesnt give us f119 engines we may have no other option but to buy saturn engines from russia thats powering the pak fa.

 

[Armand2REP]

if US doesnt give us f119 engines we may have no other option but to buy saturn engines from russia thats powering the pak fa.

Kind of hard to put large engines developed for a 20 tonne fighter on a 12 tonne unless you only want one engine. Non, if you must outsource your best bet would be a pair of the uprated M88-3.

 

[nitesh]

Then what is the fun in investing for PAK FA? You need to understand that certain strategic items like engines we need to invest for long term even without getting the desired results and please don't compare the engines it really does not make any sense.

 

[ppgj]

the f-22 raptors f119 have 160kn thrust per engine. what are our chances to make kaveri capable to deliver so much power for the MCA???. And even if we achieve, it would surely take years in the making along with the help of snecma.

no chance of such power. besides why do you need so much power for MCA?
you need optimim power. if kaveri does not deliver then as armand said a pair of M-88 3 or a pair of RD-33 mk (india makes RD-33 series 3 engines already and can be upgraded without much problems) will be fine.

arent we jeopardizing the MCA project just like we did for the LCA project ?? if we are not capable of delivering the engines on time, rather buy it from someone. if US doesnt give us f119 engines we may have no other option but to buy saturn engines from russia thats powering the pak fa.

that is what will happen if kaveri fails. we have options. anyway MCA is still not out of drawing board. so relax.

but we don't need 160kn engine for it.

 

[badguy2000]

no chance of such power. besides why do you need so much power for MCA?
you need optimim power. if kaveri does not deliver then as armand said a pair of M-88 3 or a pair of RD-33 mk (india makes RD-33 series 3 engines already and can be upgraded without much problems) will be fine.



that is what will happen if kaveri fails. we have options. anyway MCA is still not out of drawing board. so relax.

but we don't need 160kn engine for it.

today even UK and France can not produce big engine with a thurst of over 110 KN.

 

[Armand2REP]

today even UK and France can not produce big engine with a thurst of over 110 KN.

UK and France developed the Olympus with 169.2 kN of thrust 44 years ago.

 

[neo29]

we do not have much 5th gen fighters to talk about in terms of reference. the f-22 is using f119 engines that gives 160kn . one variant of f119 for the f-35 lightning produces 180kn.

these two 5th gen fighters are quiet heavy, considering that we can assume that paf fa, fgfa and probably the mca may be heavy too.

hence the conclusion for powerful engines, unless the 3 fighters are light weight which i seriously doubt.

 

[neo29]

this may be old news , new for some . interesting thing is that the first engine productions will come atleast in 5 years . is this really a good investment when we already buying engines for LCA . or are they readying this engine for MCA ??? here goes :

Kaveri project: DRDO gets nod for tie-up with French firm

BANGALORE: The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has been given the go-ahead by the government to take up an offer of French firm Snecma to ‘partner’ with the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) for jointly developing the Kaveri aero engine.

Senior GTRE officials told The Hindu that talks with Snecma “could start early next year.” The Kaveri’s eventual user, the Indian Air Force now appears to have softened its opposition to the tie-up, they said.

The Rs. 2,839-crore Kaveri engine programme was launched in 1989, specifically to power the Light Combat Aircraft, Tejas, now under development at the DRDO’s Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA). In 2005, the GTRE indicated that it would not be able to develop the Kaveri engine on its own.

Interestingly, the government’s nod, which is expected to cost the exchequer at least Rs 1,000 crore, comes nine months after a team, headed by Air Vice-Marshal M. Matheswaran and comprising officials from the ADA, the IAF and the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, submitted a report that stated that an engine developed jointly by Snecma and the GTRE would not meet the IAF’s performance requirements. The IAF also wanted the Kaveri project delinked from Tejas programme.

According to informed sources, members of the Matheswaran team were critical of the French passing off their existing and fully developed ‘Eco’ engine core. This, the team felt, would not give India the engine core design knowledge or even control over it. It also pointed out that the design technology being handed out would take years to come.

Based on the report, the French offer was put on the backburner with even officials from Snecma stating that the “chapter was closed.” But the IAF for reasons not yet clear, appear to have reversed its stand.

Snecma, which indicated that an engine run of at least 250 is required to make their offer economically viable, agrees that an existing core would be at the heart of the Snecma – GTRE Kaveri engine. It, however, denies it would take years for handing over the design technology. It will take at least five years before the first production engine comes out.

Snecma chairman and chief executive officer Philippe Petitcolin told The Hindu: “Yes we first stated a 15-year period to hand over the design technology, but now we have indicated that the technology can be given as fast as the Indians can assimilate it.”

The Hindu : Front Page : Kaveri project: DRDO gets nod for tie-up with French firm

 

[nirmal]

If I am correct Kaveri engine was sent for high altitude flight test to Gromov Flight Instt,Russia recently.
The results of flight test conducted so far has been found satisfactory as stated possibly by some ADA official.
Any news of the latest high altitude test news and when will the flight test be conducted aboard a flying test bed?

 

[anoop_mig25]

anyway MCA is still not out of drawing board. so relax.
.

if it is not then why are there threads dedicated to it and i think our scientist at ada must have learnt something from kaveri development.and why arnt we mastering engine technology as done by china after all its heart of on fighter aircraft?

 

[ppgj]

if it is not then why are there threads dedicated to it and i think our scientist at ada must have learnt something from kaveri development.and why arnt we mastering engine technology as done by china after all its heart of on fighter aircraft?

MCA will start only when LCA mark 2 becomes operational which means not before 2015 or therabouts.

engines are very difficult technology and not having enough experience in the field also held india back. now with Snecma joining in, Kaveri will come along in some years. hopefully it may power LCA mark 2 too in the coming time.

that is the time when MCA will take off.

 

[badguy2000]

UK and France developed the Olympus with 169.2 kN of thrust 44 years ago.

USA landed on moon 40 years ago. but it can not do it until 2020.

Besides, 44 years ago, the T/W ratio of engine was only 5.0...

the only use of a 5.0 level engine with 169.2KN today is for exhibition in museums.

 

[Yusuf]

USA landed on moon 40 years ago. but it can not do it until 2020.

And the point being?