Kaveri Engine

AVERAGE INDIAN

EXORCIST
New Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
3,332
Likes
5,426
Country flag
New tailwinds for Kaveri engine

The indigenous Kaveri aero engine, conceived to power home-built fighter plane Tejas but generally written off as a 25-year, Rs. 2,100-crore drain on resources, now looks set to resume where it left off two years ago and complete the last lap of its development.

A surprisingly strong nudge from the government and prospects of good funds in recent months have given tailwinds to the engine programme; a revised proposal has been made on the government's advice for the remaining part of the Kaveri activity, according to DRDO Director General (Aero) K. Tamilmani and Director, Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) C.P. Ramanarayanan. They did not elaborate on what the proposals are.

The Kaveri's last big activity was in 2011, when it took a flight test in Russia fitted on the Il-76 transport plane. Although 90 per cent of the flight envelop was covered, at least five problems showed up, according to scientists.

Since then, the GTRE has worked on the nagging issues and would take Kaveri to its logical conclusion up to certification, Dr. Tamilmani said on Tuesday while announcing an upcoming conference of the organisation.

Next year, the GTRE plans to show the engine's performance first on an Il-76 plane and then as the second engine fitted on a twin-engined fighter like MiG-29. It would be tuned to certification standards.

"When we do that, we will have the first indigenous [aero]engine with proven and certified performance for exploitation" — meaning it would be rendered suitable for fitting on future Indian-made military or passenger aircraft — Dr. Ramanarayanan told The Hindu later.

Dr. Tamilmani said a ready engine would precede an indigenous aircraft programme, a model followed worldwide.

The aero engine has been a vital but missing link in the country's military aviation, which has to buy them from foreign makers at huge costs. Each aircraft needs to replace its engines three or four times during its lifetime.

In 2008, Kaveri was de-linked from its original platform, the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA). Earlier this year, senior scientists said it would be used to fly unmanned air vehicles of the armed forces. Its derivatives could go into powering ships, too.

The Ministry of Defence is buying 99 F404 jet engines for the LCA from global engines major GE for Rs. 3,000 crore.

The DRDO has missed the LCA mandate but still hopes to achieve the final objective, possibly for other equally important projects, Dr. Ramanarayanan said.

A 2011 survey by the GTRE estimated that this decade, India could spend Rs. 1.8 lakh crore to buy engines plus another Rs. 4 lakh crore for their upkeep. The DRDO scientists admit to slip-ups and lost opportunities.

In a separate activity, military plane maker Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd is developing engines for its helicopters and trainer aircraft by 2018.

New tailwinds for Kaveri engine - The Hindu
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
The engine was already tested on IL-76 if i am not mistaking or they are planning for another run ..

Use of Kaveri if certified on MIG-29 then its ok for export with Tejas ..

Next year, the GTRE plans to show the engine's performance first on an Il-76 plane and then as the second engine fitted on a twin-engined fighter like MiG-29. It would be tuned to certification standards.

"When we do that, we will have the first indigenous [aero]engine with proven and certified performance for exploitation" — meaning it would be rendered suitable for fitting on future Indian-made military or passenger aircraft — Dr. Ramanarayanan told The Hindu later.
 

sayareakd

New Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
17,734
Likes
18,953
Country flag
They should get an IL76 Second hand in good condition, put Kavari as one of engine and do all sorts of tests on this flying test bed. This will help is in future too.
 

p2prada

New Member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
10,234
Likes
4,017
They should get an IL76 Second hand in good condition, put Kavari as one of engine and do all sorts of tests on this flying test bed. This will help is in future too.
Such a system is being setup with Boeing's help currently.
 

CuriousBen

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Jul 28, 2013
Messages
58
Likes
20
I would like to understand the present challenges of Kaveri engine.
What exactly have we achieved over the past 2 years , e.g. in terms of fixing issues and learning new things .

What is the current status of the engne development and testing and trials

Secondly how far are we away from seeing a kaveri being flown on a fighter like mig 29 or experimental LCA ?
 

rugved

New Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
290
Likes
155
I would like to understand the present challenges of Kaveri engine.
What exactly have we achieved over the past 2 years , e.g. in terms of fixing issues and learning new things .

What is the current status of the engne development and testing and trials

Secondly how far are we away from seeing a kaveri being flown on a fighter like mig 29 or experimental LCA ?
LOL Kaveri being flown into a MiG-29? Let it first be integrated into the Tejas. MiG-29 is still light years away.
 

rugved

New Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
290
Likes
155
Testing on Mig-29 to qualify engine....
Don't take this as a taunt or a troll but do you think that GTRE/DRDO is capable of creating an afterburning turbofan of that level to outdo their Russian/American counterparts?
 

cloud

New Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Messages
152
Likes
67
Country flag
So what if the engine is 150 kg heavier? Can't we reduce a single 250 pound bomb and the total weight of aircraft will be same.

The main issue here seems that now the modern engines are already crossing 120KN of AF thrust with the same size engines( ex F414EPE). Comparing it with the 81KN engine is already an outdated concept for fighter jets. No matter even if we solve the weight problem of Kaveri, it just can't match the newer engines let alone the upcoming development in west. But having said that importance if Kaveri is huge, even if gets certified at its current performance and their is a good roadmap/will to develop the next gen engines.
 

rvjpheonix

New Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Messages
251
Likes
171
Country flag
Don't take this as a taunt or a troll but do you think that GTRE/DRDO is capable of creating an afterburning turbofan of that level to outdo their Russian/American counterparts?
Educate yourself. The mig 29 uses rd 33 engines which is very old tech and outdated. We are matching those specs with the kaveri(still a bit overweight though). Nobody is suggesting to use kaveri on all fighters instead to convert a few aorframes forctesting the engine. We do not have a flying test bef and those facilities will be set with Boeings help according to recent news. Without a flying test bed its very difficult to test all the points. Hence the suggestion as the mig 29 is a twin engined plane and can land safely using the second engine if somethin goes wrong. However I don't think this suggestion is viable to lack of airframes and expertise.
 

rugved

New Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
290
Likes
155
Educate yourself. The mig 29 uses rd 33 engines which is very old tech and outdated. We are matching those specs with the kaveri(still a bit overweight though). Nobody is suggesting to use kaveri on all fighters instead to convert a few aorframes forctesting the engine. We do not have a flying test bef and those facilities will be set with Boeings help according to recent news. Without a flying test bed its very difficult to test all the points. Hence the suggestion as the mig 29 is a twin engined plane and can land safely using the second engine if somethin goes wrong. However I don't think this suggestion is viable to lack of airframes and expertise.
Did I not say to not take my genuine question as a troll? (-__-) Thank you for the information by the way.
 

ersakthivel

Brilliance
New Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,764
Country flag
http://drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/techfocus/2011/TFApril2011.pdf

An old PDF from 2011 which explicitly says that Single crystal blades and many other alloys developed and displayed in Aeroindia-2013 and 2011 are developed by DMRL and the production tech after certification was passed on to HAL.

SO the blades being made at Koraput HAL uses the indian tech delivered by DMRL and not tech transferred under Su-30 MKI TOT.

According to people who visited the aeroindia 2013 the SCBs produced under batch production techniques was awaiting CEMILAC certification before production begins at Koraput HAL plant.
 
Last edited:

makmohan

New Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
105
Likes
206
30 years in making, Tejas finally ready for production | idrw.org

Three decades after the project started, India's Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas is all set for initial operational clearance and production, Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) chief Avinash Chander said Sunday
The DRDO got permission to start the programme to design and develop an indigenous Light Combat Aircraft way back in 1983.
The ten-tonne category indigenous Tejas has gone through the full operational envelop of its speed, angle of attack, different manoeuvres it can make, different types of loads it can carry, weather conditions and high altitude operations, Chander, who also serves as scientific advisor to the defence minister, said in an interview to the 'War and Peace' programme of state-run TV channel Doordarshan News
It gives us the confidence that the aircraft is now ready for production (at the facilities of Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd). HAL has been chosen as its production agency he said
Chander made it clear that Tejas would continue its production cycles with imported American GE engines.
If you see the world, aircraft are built around a proven engine and once it is a flying aircraft, we seldom change the engine. he said.

Asked whether there could be any hurdles in production because of the imported American engines, he said: Given our relationship with different countries in the world, we don't anticipate any problems
Chander said the indigenous Kaveri engine project would continue for future unmanned aerial vehicles.
It will be possible for unmanned aerial vehicles to take off from naval platforms like the INS Jalashwa he said.
For the next round of indigenous 20-tonne category medium combat aircraft project, India will go for some technology partnership to develop some new engine of that class of aircraft said the DRDO chief.
 

shuvo@y2k10

New Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
2,653
Likes
6,710
Country flag
if the single crystal blades are already in production then what is the exact problem with the kaveri's low engine thrust? also i think we should invest much more in engine developement project be it 90-100 kn thrust(for amca) or 180-190kn(for desi fgfa) and engines of heavy weight transport planes(desi c-17 or il-76).
 

A chauhan

"अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l"
New Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Messages
9,533
Likes
22,583
Country flag
if the single crystal blades are already in production then what is the exact problem with the kaveri's low engine thrust? also i think we should invest much more in engine developement project be it 90-100 kn thrust(for amca) or 180-190kn(for desi fgfa) and engines of heavy weight transport planes(desi c-17 or il-76).
Compression ! Weight ?
 

aerokan

New Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Messages
1,024
Likes
818
Country flag
if the single crystal blades are already in production then what is the exact problem with the kaveri's low engine thrust? also i think we should invest much more in engine developement project be it 90-100 kn thrust(for amca) or 180-190kn(for desi fgfa) and engines of heavy weight transport planes(desi c-17 or il-76).
User requirement and time. Once the user requirements are frozen, it will take a while to develop a good engine according to the specs.
 

ersakthivel

Brilliance
New Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,764
Country flag
Bharat Rakshak "¢ View topic - Kaveri & aero-engine discussion

post by geeth in this link elegantly states the selection of low by pass ratio for kaveri,

In low by pass engines, more air passes through the core and hence more fuel is burnt. Lesser by-pass air passes through the annular space.
as mass flow through the core is high in low bypass ration engines cooling is efficient and a higher TET is not required,also the space required for engine too is low,it will have a higher SFC and higher noise levels,and only lesser fuel can be pumped for after burner


In high bypass ratio, major part of the air is pushed through the annular space between the core and outer casing - this air have large mass and lower velocity.Being of lower velocity, contributes less towards overall thrust. Advantage are:
In high bypass ration engine as mass flow through the core is less lesser cooling of the core needs a higher TET and it will need a large space meaning more weight as well, but it will have a bette rSFC and lesser noise, but more fuel can be pumped for after burner.


So it is entirely possible considering low metallurgy tech in india prevailing then(even now)GTRE chose a low bypass ratio engine for Kaveri effort,Still lot needs to be done though,

A
 
Last edited:

sayareakd

New Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
17,734
Likes
18,953
Country flag
We need to pump more money and we should ask another department to go for AMCA engine.
In past also three department work on super computer in India.
 

Articles

Top