Kaveri Engine

[Somreet Bhattacharya]

As far as I understand, bombers dont fit India's combat doctrines which offers little area for expeditionary activities, like that of an US invasion of Vietnam or Russian invasion of Afghanistan. India will never be an invading force, the Jaguars we have are deep penetration strike birds meant to target specific targets behind enemy lines that will cripple an invasion by an enemy force. Thus they serve the purpose.

 

[dealwithit]

we leave planes and start with kaveri engine ...

 

[EXPERT]

we do need bombers , there is nothing wrong if a bomber can do the work of five jaguars .

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I think DRDO should focus on marine engines and improve present one specially weight reduction for export of Tejas.

 

[sayareakd]

As far as I understand, bombers dont fit India's combat doctrines which offers little area for expeditionary activities, like that of an US invasion of Vietnam or Russian invasion of Afghanistan. India will never be an invading force, the Jaguars we have are deep penetration strike birds meant to target specific targets behind enemy lines that will cripple an invasion by an enemy force. Thus they serve the purpose.

we should fit in our nirbhay like that in two rotary launcher in tandem position.

one long range bomber with 4-6 Kaveri engine would do the job. If we got 12-20 of these bombers enemy knows what long legs we got, specially for our shorter enemy.

 

[halloweene]

There's a tiny project i'm talking about with an italian engineer.
In france you can find a small startup designing hexabomb pods for C130 (5bombs aasm like +one designator pod or six bombs).They would certainly fit to C27J spartan gunship...Not to say A400 I let you imagine a plane like that equipped with a sensor ball...And a sar radar.

 

[SATISH]

O still want the engine to be made...scrap Kaveri and put up a new engine specification. The Kaveri is a leaky engine and is not worth the effort anymore.

 

[mahesh]

we have so many engines in our jets, cn't we atleast dismantle any good one and atleast compare what's really wrong or find a least solution to upgrade the engine ?
or are indian scientist are committed to invent new method of engineering to make kaveri engine work ?

 

[Dinesh_Kumar]

From what I understand and have read so far, the design approach taken by GTRE was sound enough, and as good as was available in the 80s (when Kaveri development studies were started).
Problem lies in high temperature materials and alloys, esp. in hot sections of turbine afterburner. The basic engine itself is ok, and has almost reached design specification (I think Spec was frozen at 55KN was "dry thrust" w/o Afterburner, and 85KN "wet", i.e. with afterburner. We achieved 54KN and 81KN , or around those ranges).

Main points are:

1. We need an alloy to withstand 1700 deg F of temperature (this is for blade material)

2. LCA had "design creep" issues, so weight goals changed, and even 85KN wont be adequate in future to power LCA to desired level. Hence, an imported interim engine was selected, and Kaveri de-linked from LCA programme.

3. The hope lies here, if we can achieve 85KN and 1700 deg. temperature, it opens doors for us to make (speculation!) more advanced versions with higher thrust, which can fly on LCA.

4. Basic engine itself sound, and many people have called for use of non-afterburning Kaveri on UAVs,etc.

we have so many engines in our jets, cn't we atleast dismantle any good one and atleast compare what's really wrong or find a least solution to upgrade the engine ?

 

[mahesh]

4. Basic engine itself sound, and many people have called for use of non-afterburning Kaveri on UAVs,etc.

what are the engine specifications of a combat UAV and when compared with kaveri engine ? any numbers

 

[sayareakd]

From what I understand and have read so far, the design approach taken by GTRE was sound enough, and as good as was available in the 80s (when Kaveri development studies were started).
Problem lies in high temperature materials and alloys, esp. in hot sections of turbine afterburner. The basic engine itself is ok, and has almost reached design specification (I think Spec was frozen at 55KN was "dry thrust" w/o Afterburner, and 85KN "wet", i.e. with afterburner. We achieved 54KN and 81KN , or around those ranges).

Main points are:

1. We need an alloy to withstand 1700 deg F of temperature (this is for blade material)

2. LCA had "design creep" issues, so weight goals changed, and even 85KN wont be adequate in future to power LCA to desired level. Hence, an imported interim engine was selected, and Kaveri de-linked from LCA programme.

3. The hope lies here, if we can achieve 85KN and 1700 deg. temperature, it opens doors for us to make (speculation!) more advanced versions with higher thrust, which can fly on LCA.

4. Basic engine itself sound, and many people have called for use of non-afterburning Kaveri on UAVs,etc.

Plus may i also add that it is not that this problem is never been solved by anyone. Just that it will take lot more effort and time. Even China with all things at their disposal have not made good engine so far. Govt has put it money, we need to have fresh blood to think out the box and solve this problem.

 

[Dinesh_Kumar]

Correct, most UAV engines are smaller than Kaveri (diameter, wt., etc.) and less power.

Maybe suitable for Global Hawk/ HALE type programme.

 

[Payeng]

The turbofan of the Nirbhay, I discount such theories that it is some Russian engine, it must be a development of a home grown jet engine project.

 

[sayareakd]

The turbofan of the Nirbhay, I discount such theories that it is some Russian engine, it must be a development of a home grown jet engine project.

more we learn from R&D more it will be used in future projects and it will helps us to make different things, without getting help from others.

 

[ersakthivel]

n July 2007, GTRE divided Kaveri program into two separate programs. They are K9+ Program and K 10 Program. K9+ Program is a program to prove concept of complete design and gain hand-on experience of aircraft engine integration and flight trials to cover a defined truncated flight envelope prior to the launch of production version of K10 Standard engine. While K 10 Program is a Joint Venture (JV) partnership with a foreign engine manufacturer. K 10 program engine will be final production standard Kaveri engine and shall have less weight and more reheat thrust along with certain other changes to meet the original design intent

So further development of K-9+ is not just an academic exercise .It will cut th flight trial and development time of K-10.As it will cover a defined truncated flight envelope prior to the launch of production version K-10.

Plans are also already under way for derivatives of the Kaveri, including a non-afterburning version for an advanced jet trainer and a high-bypass-ratio turbofan based on the Kaveri core, named as Kabini

So other versions of K-9+ will still have many uses.

 

[ersakthivel]

Indian Defence Goal: IUSAV to be powered by 'dry' Kaveri: Antony

A 'dry' version of the Kaveri turbofan engine will power the Indian Unmanned Strike Air Vehicle (IUSAV). Defence Minister A.K. Antony has informed Parliament about a variant of the Kaveri devoid of reheat/afterburner. In March this year, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) had announced, "India's first indigenously designed and developed aircraft engine Kaveri is undergoing certification tests after series of successful flight trials." The DRDO, is currently researching cornerstone technologies to make the IUSAV a reality.
The Indian Unmanned Strike Air Vehicle (IUSAV), under ab initio definition and concept development by the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) in Bangalore under Project Director Dr Biju Uthup, is being envisaged and developed as a stealthy autonomous bomber aircraft, incorporating flying wing aerodynamics, low observable features, long endurance capabilities, and the ability to deploy precision guided weapons over enemy territory. Several laboratories under the DRDO will participate in this ambitious aeronautical project.

So k-9 will have even more strategic use perhaps,

 

[arnabmit]

Is IUSAV same as AURA? Or seperate projects?

Indian Defence Goal: IUSAV to be powered by 'dry' Kaveri: Antony



So k-9 will have even more strategic use perhaps,

 

[ersakthivel]

Indian Air Force :: HAL and the Indian Aviation Industry

Light Combat Aircraft (LCA-Tejas).

HAL serves as the prime contractor and Aernautical Development Agency (ADA) has the primary responsibility for the design and development of the LCA *. When I retired it was clearly agreed that HAL would be the Design Authority and this position should not have altered. Obviously the responsibilities changed and HAL in reality became a sub-contractor. I doubt with the primary responsibility being given to ADA whether the programme has benefited. The programme has slipped by several years. However one has to give credit for the technologies incorporated namely Fly-by Wire, extensive use of composites (about 45%) in the build of aircraft, glass cockpit etc. Eight Tejas of Limited Series Production have flown*. The weapons trials have yet to be completed. The failure of the development of the Kaveri engine for the Tejas is a big setback for DRDO. Many of us in the test pilot community thought it was too ambitious a project. Aircraft engine technology is very complex and difficult to master. Sanctioning the programme as an experimental programme would have been much better. Collaboration with a company in the West should have been explored. We are fortunate I believe to have recently got the technology for DS blades and Single Crystal blades for the turbines through our licence agreements.

,

So now we have Single Crystal Blade tech in India due to the license agreement, IS this license comes from Su-30 MKI deal or any thing else?

The article implies this tech can be used for Kaveri.

is it correct interpretation?

members clarify.

 

[sayareakd]

Indian Air Force :: HAL and the Indian Aviation Industry

,

So now we have Single Crystal Blade tech in India due to the license agreement, IS this license comes from Su-30 MKI deal or any thing else?

The article implies this tech can be used for Kaveri.

is it correct interpretation?

members clarify.

i think he is speculating................ Such tech is not for sale by any means.

 

[Twinblade]

Indian Air Force :: HAL and the Indian Aviation Industry

,

So now we have Single Crystal Blade tech in India due to the license agreement, IS this license comes from Su-30 MKI deal or any thing else?

The article implies this tech can be used for Kaveri.

is it correct interpretation?

members clarify.

There are multiple generations of Single Crystal blade technology. Mostly nickel based superalloys are preferred for high temperature high pressure environments such as jet engines. Last time I checked there were already 5 or 6 generations of superalloys for making turbine blades, so the SC blade technology which we might have might not be the same SC technology that we need.