Kaveri Engine

[Nazaria e Bakistan]

han to ab aye line pe.. glad you diverted your gun from the statue.

You dont just buy a jet and BOOM you have everything needed to test the engine.
It needs a properly trained workforce. We will establish a testing facility once we have our scientists properly trained.

their is a reason why we keep on leasing Russian Charlie and Akulas.

Spoiler: Tweet about subs. little Off topic

I have NOT.

Remember, this unused CapEx you are talking about has happened in FY 2023. Statue expense goes back much earlier.

We needed that platform in 2000s and 2010s and even now we do not have it. So yes, 400 million dollar Statue is a wasteful expense.

Do you have any source for this reason "It needs a properly trained workforce. We will establish a testing facility once we have our scientists properly trained."? We already have GTRE, we have a centre for airworthiness study. Can you link me to the source where it was said (by whom as well), that we are waiting for "training" of engineers and workforce for testbed?

 

[NutCracker]

I have NOT.

Remember, this unused CapEx you are talking about has happened in FY 2023. Statue expense goes back much earlier.

We needed that platform in 2000s and 2010s and even now we do not have it. So yes, 400 million dollar Statue is a wasteful expense.

So you mean to say we dont need testbed now ??

Did yo read rest of the part of my previous comment ??

 

[Nazaria e Bakistan]

So you mean to say we dont need testbed now ??

Did yo read rest of the part of my previous comment ??

I have updated my answer and We DO NEED this testbed. We needed it since 2000s.

 

[NutCracker]

I have NOT.

Remember, this unused CapEx you are talking about has happened in FY 2023. Statue expense goes back much earlier.

We needed that platform in 2000s and 2010s and even now we do not have it. So yes, 400 million dollar Statue is a wasteful expense.

Do you have any source for this reason "It needs a properly trained workforce. We will establish a testing facility once we have our scientists properly trained."? We already have GTRE, we have a centre for airworthiness study. Can you link me to the source where it was said (by whom as well), that we are waiting for "training" of engineers and workforce for testbed?

and who told you that unused budget is recent phenomena..

this is 2016 IndianDefenceReview comment by our @Hari Sud ji .

 

[Nazaria e Bakistan]

and who told you that unused budget is recent phenomena..

this is 2016 IndianDefenceReview comment by our @Hari Sud ji .

View attachment 201225

Given that our overall budget and actual expense each year (which includes defence) has never been a surplus or balanced, we are indeed --overall-- spending more than what government earns as revenue. So, even if defence budget is under utilized, it does not mean that government has money lying around to be used. In light of that, this idea that we should spend 400-500 millions on statue while critical purchase like Testbeds for jet engine development are waiting does not make sense.

And I am still waiting for the source of this claim that we are waiting for 30 years or more for our scientists to be trained before we buy a high altitude testing flying testbed.

 

[NutCracker]

I am saying our government is OVERALL spending more than it earns. Is it really that hard to understand?

So in priority of spending a Statue should comes much BELOW than something like a flying testbed as statue has no strategic value.

And yes, we should NOT celebrate unwise excess spending like this statue and that Shivaji statue in Maharashtra which is to be constructed.

I am still waiting for your source on your claim which I guess is now clearly your lower posterior.

Did we celebrate those statues in Kaveri engine thread ??

You still didnt answer me how and why you want "collab" between center and state to fund a test bed, when your military budget is going unspent.
Do you beg to your neighbour despite when your father has allocated your pocket money from the monthly budget.

Your lower posterior is on fire over wrong reason.

 

[NutCracker]

In your analogy, I will ask money from my uncle if it funds my education while he has been wasting it on worthless endeavours. Thats what we call family. In my family children's education in family is taken care of before expenses like a BMW.

wrong analogy.. do you understand "list" concept from our constitution ?
defence falls into union list. Thats why I gave neighbour analogy

Your uncle/family analogy is closer to concurrent list.

 

[shade]

I came here expecting updates on the Kaveri engine but got a librandu comparing co-relating statues vs military expenditure instead

 

[Nazaria e Bakistan]

Your intellectual dishonesty is visible. You are selectively choosing which part of my comment to respond . Instead of answering the relevant question in my comment.




Did you miss this or your intellectual dishonesty created a sphere of ignorance around your peanut brain ??

Similarly you are picking one word from his comment, despite him being clearer in the second line of the para itself, you are here to waste other's time over petty debates.

View attachment 201343

you took a shitty stance from the beginning and now you are splitting hairs over puny matter instead of answering relavant part.

Leave intellectual dishonesty or any such tangential blame, you are lying blatantly!
When you say 'he never used the word "will" '; you either can not read -- which I seriously hope is not the case OR very very likely you are really dishonest.

And whats the point of answering a dishonest person's question?

Anyways, it seems you have a habit of omitting parts or can not read.

 

[NutCracker]

Leave intellectual dishonesty or any such tangential blame, you are lying blatantly!
When you say 'he never used the word "will" '; you either can not read -- which I seriously hope is not the case OR very very likely you are really dishonest.

And whats the point of answering a dishonest person's question?

Anyways, it seems you have a habit of omitting parts or can not read.
View attachment 201344

Funds if needed ???
What part of "unutilised allocated budget" you do not get ?
Money is not the probelm.

 

[Lonewolf]

Leave intellectual dishonesty or any such tangential blame, you are lying blatantly!
When you say 'he never used the word "will" '; you either can not read -- which I seriously hope is not the case OR very very likely you are really dishonest.

And whats the point of answering a dishonest person's question?

Anyways, it seems you have a habit of omitting parts or can not read.
View attachment 201344

State your points in a single post , and then I can understand, thread is too littered with all of you bickering

 

[Nazaria e Bakistan]

State your points in a single post , and then I can understand, thread is too littered with all of you bickering

It is already covered here (https://defenceforumindia.com/threads/kaveri-engine.5097/page-284#post-2478959). Bickering is merely responding to those who are too enamoured by extremely expensive statues.

Quoting it for convenience.

I asked the same question on Strategic front but my thread was locked because I am from Al Bakistan and I have different lovers!

Biggest expense in a Flying Test Bed is the high flying aircraft.

A brand new IL76-MD-90A costs 50 million dollar or so. 4-5 will come 200 million dollars. Make it 400 million dollars with all the spares and modifications to make them test bed.

Is 400 million dollars that big of an amount?

We spend 500 million dollars on these useless statues

Patel must be crying in afterlife!

Remember, this will get us the latest and greatest IL76-MD-90As. If you want to save money, lots of second hand planes were on sale during Pandemic. We can go for one of the variants of 747. It is also a 8 engine plane which is used in Amerikkka for engine development.

https://simpleflying.com/boeing-747-value-2022/
Cheapest are old 1980s airframes costing few millions. More recent ones cost more but then you get a modern plane with lot more life left.

I blame bloody Baboos of MoD. All of them deserved to be hanged on the India gate.

 

[AnantS]

Oye Your angst on why still dont have our own FTB is correct. But your are wrongly taking angst on statue. There are plenty of other schemes where you can take your rant against. Like Chajj Subsidy. That statue has helped in promoting otherwise remote part of Gujarat into becoming well known tourist destination. Often such vanity project are needed to promote and develop otherwise backward areas of country. But rest I am with you man on FTB. Its my pet peeve of why all govts are so ambivalent about this pressing need.

 

[karn]

@Nazaria e Bakistan . You are making the classic mistake of equating money thrown into a project vs the actual outcome. Any wide body aircraft needs OEM certification for any modification.
Since we have exactly 0 indigenous widebody aircraft flying money is really not the factor it's the willingness of the OEM to offer you one as such.
You may or may not have seen the recent aircraft modified to act as a flying testbed for DRDO for ECM this is basic mod that has no effect on on the structural framework of the aircraft.
For engine testing is a whole different ball game.
Any flying testbed certification is in the hands of the OEM who themselves are trying to sell us next gen engines . And we are at its mercy ...
So please stop your inane comparisons to that statue.

 

[AnantS]

@Nazaria e Bakistan . You are making the classic mistake of equating money thrown into a project vs the actual outcome. Any wide body aircraft needs OEM certification for any modification.
Since we have exactly 0 indigenous widebody aircraft flying money is really not the factor it's the willingness of the OEM to offer you one as such.
You may or may not have seen the recent aircraft modified to act as a flying testbed for DRDO for ECM this is basic mod that has no effect on on the structural framework of the aircraft.
For engine testing is a whole different ball game.
Any flying testbed certification is in the hands of the OEM who themselves are trying to sell us next gen engines . And we are at its mercy ...
So please stop your inane comparisons to that statue.

India could buy Russian FTB when they could. Money has always been the issue for this case. As the cost for converting IL 76 into FTB was exorbitant.

 

[karn]

India could buy Russian FTB when they could. Money has always been the issue for this case. As the cost for converting IL 76 into FTB was exorbitant.

Could buy ? Are you sure ? Why would they do that .. it is their engines with their shitty reliability and low service life that our engines can first replace. I have no doubt that the Russians would ever enable a competitor unless we see a collapse o the russian state like that of the Soviet union. If we could have bought one while the soviet union was collapsing yeah but no one thought of that since we were poor and its not like the russians were in a position give product support and we were in the same state as bhikaristan today.. heck the Su 30 MKI project was no less than a masterstroke by ABV

 

[Sachinananda]

Could buy ? Are you sure ? Why would they do that .. it is their engines with their shitty reliability and low service life that our engines can first replace. I have no doubt that the Russians would ever enable a competitor unless we see a collapse o the russian state like that of the Soviet union. If we could have bought one while the soviet union was collapsing yeah but no one thought of that since we were poor and its not like the russians were in a position give product support and we were in the same state as bhikaristan today.. heck the Su 30 MKI project was no less than a masterstroke by ABV

Su-30MKI was proposed by pvnr

 

[karn]

Su-30MKI was proposed by pvnr

As usual INC proposals are fulfilled by BJP.

 

[Nazaria e Bakistan]

@Nazaria e Bakistan . You are making the classic mistake of equating money thrown into a project vs the actual outcome. Any wide body aircraft needs OEM certification for any modification.
Since we have exactly 0 indigenous widebody aircraft flying money is really not the factor it's the willingness of the OEM to offer you one as such.
You may or may not have seen the recent aircraft modified to act as a flying testbed for DRDO for ECM this is basic mod that has no effect on on the structural framework of the aircraft.
For engine testing is a whole different ball game.
Any flying testbed certification is in the hands of the OEM who themselves are trying to sell us next gen engines . And we are at its mercy ...
So please stop your inane comparisons to that statue.

Okay few things:
1. Call for Flying Testbed has been made several times from our research establishments (https://idrw.org/aero-engine-consortium-recommends-india-get-a-flying-testbed-for-engine-testing/). Its not throwing more money to get a project going faster, its just having the right tools for the task. Each high altitude testing needs scheduling a test with Russia, deal with complexity of testing and complexity of foreign testing, less iterations.

2. The flying testbed has been operated by China for quite sometime too and is not really a trade secret or exclusive technology.

3. Here, I am talking about flying testbed for engine testing only. Russia uses converted IL76-MD, so do China. In USA, one company uses 747 for this testing.

4. I am not calling out on any of the structural testing of aircraft as that is not really relevant to Kaveri. I am calling out delays in testing due to unavailability of a high altitude flying test bed.

 

[Sachinananda]

As usual INC proposals are fulfilled by BJP.

AFAIK all dealings and execution was done by pvnr and MSY as DM