Kaveri Engine

[Vamsi]

@NutCracker what you have said is right

 

[Whitecollar]

@NutCracker what you have said is right

I guess even with 73kN, you could take off and land given Tejas carries limited armament load. Also, if dry max thrust is around 50kN which is almost same as that of F404, Tejas will still be able to perform most of the high alpha manouvers.

 

[Suryavanshi]

@NutCracker what you have said is right

Any chance GTRE could do TOT and handholding to the pvt firms in the future?

 

[NutCracker]

Any chance GTRE could do TOT and handholding to the pvt firms in the future?

Private firms are useless shit they will never spend few millions let alone billions of capital on something like this..

GTRE can fetch few hundred millions easily in the name of national interest if govt is even slightly intelligent.

 

[WolfPack86]

Important milestone in certification of Kaveri Engine

 

[Hari Sud]

Out of three fighter engine manufacturers namely …. GE, Sarfran and Rolls Royce, which one is making a better offer even if we pay $2 billion to get the technology and shorter development timeframe?

 

[dfcool]

even if we pay $2 billion

Sir, Safran asking for 6 billion dollars since the initial talks. If it is 2 billion govt would have already started producing engines with them long time ago.

110KN+ is not cheap because Its their bread and butter, one of most powerful engine at the moment.

amount source: https://idrw.org/safran-vs-rolls-royce-india-to-decide-engine-for-amca-program/

These companies invested billions of dollars and thousands of years of man power to develop efficient engines. How people assume they will give it way to india at that low.

6 billion is nothing if you compare that with political corruption in india. I don't know what GOI is waiting for, they were supposed to conclude this deal by end of August 2022 as per schedule.

 

[Hari Sud]

Sir, Safran asking for 6 billion dollars since the initial talks. If it is 2 billion govt would have already started producing engines with them long time ago.

110KN+ is not cheap because Its their bread and butter, one of most powerful engine at the moment.

amount source: https://idrw.org/safran-vs-rolls-royce-india-to-decide-engine-for-amca-program/

These companies invested billions of dollars and thousands of years of man power to develop efficient engines. How people assume they will give it way to india at that low.

6 billion is nothing if you compare that with political corruption in india. I don't know what GOI is waiting for, they were supposed to conclude this deal by end of August 2022 as per schedule.

You are overstating the price quoted by Safran.

Show us some examples of political corruption since 2014. No guess work.

 

[dfcool]

You are overstating the price quoted by Safran.

Show us some examples of political corruption since 2014. No guess work.

all media outlets reported as 6 billion, where is your source for 2 billion.

I am talking about political corruption in states, not union govt. check ED raids in MH, WB, Delhi.

 

[TopWatcher]

Important milestone in certification of Kaveri Engine

Let c when kaveri will be integrated with tejas.

 

[Abdus Salem killed]

Sarfran

Saffran never trust the British will go nicely with rafale also this time make the cost somewhat public so people can't scream corruption

 

[Tiwariji]

Let c when kaveri will be integrated with tejas.

Not for tejas . The thrust is not enough . Kaveri dry variant ll be used for ghatak stealth drone .

 

[NutCracker]

Not for tejas . The thrust is not enough . Kaveri dry variant ll be used for ghatak stealth drone .

50-52kN dry is same as GE404INS6 , 73kN can easily fulfil requirements of Tejas Trainer variant.
Get our lads as many training hours as they want with domestic engine and take invaluable feedback from ground support and pilots.
But First just make sure that engine is reliable for usage of thousands upon thousand hours.

 

[Hari Sud]

all media outlets reported as 6 billion, where is your source for 2 billion.

I am talking about political corruption in states, not union govt. check ED raids in MH, WB, Delhi.

‘Overstated claims and guess work on everything. Use caution if you wish to mislead.

 

[MonaLazy]

x-posting

The specifics of the American offer become clearer.. somewhat!

Second Thoughts

The US has come back with its 2019 offer to jointly develop the AMCA jet engine with India shedding ‘export control’ concerns, , Magazine Issue 5 Nov 2022

www.businessworld.in

Second Thoughts
The US has come back with its 2019 offer to jointly develop the AMCA jet engine with India shedding ‘export control’ concerns


View attachment 180503

The US has revived an offer to cooperate with India on the development of jet engine technology which could be used to power the Mk-2 variant of India’s futuristic Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

General Electric (GE) of the US, one of the world’s leading manufacturers of jet engines, has submitted a proposal for the co-development of a 110 kN thrust engine with Indian agencies for the stealth fighter.

Technologies developed for a 116 kN thrust derivative of GE’s F414 engine will be the baseline in this offer of cooperation, Youngje Kim, GE Aviation’s vice-president for Asia-Pacific Region Military Systems Operation disclosed to BW Businessworld in an exclusive interview.

“All technologies previously asked for by the government of India will be offered,” Kim announced. India had earlier sought the core engine or hot section technology for jet engines under the India-US Defence Trade and Technology Initiative (DTTI) but was turned down.

Export control concerns

That effort failed after the US cited export control concerns in transferring this technology. A joint working group on jet engine technology under the DTTI framework was thereafter disbanded in October 2019.

The turnaround by the US now is total and coincides with two ongoing Indian fighter jet procurements from the global market and a take-off stage in indigenous development and production of potentially hundreds of fighter jets over the next two decades.

So, what drove the US capitulation? “The defence relationship with India is strategically important for the US. Things have changed,” said Kim, while indicating that cutting-edge capability of GE’s Jack Welch Technology Center at Bengaluru could be leveraged for the AMCA jet engine programme.

Industry watchers read the US about-turn as a bid to retain its lead in powering India’s indigenous fighter jet programme, a position it does not wish to cede to European engine makers. The Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas is powered by the GE-F404 engine, which has an 85kN thrust. India’s Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA)’s plans for the LCA Tejas Mk-2, AMCA Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft and the Twin Engine Deck-Based Fighter (TEDBF) are also closely woven around the 98kN thrust GE-F414 engine. Several hundred of these aircraft will be produced.

Only when the AMCA programme matures to the Mk-2 level does the ADA envisage switching from a GE-F414 to an indigenous engine with a higher 110kn thrust. It is for the development of that engine that India is seeking foreign collaboration. The AMCA Mk-2 production timelines commence around 2035. ADA also plans powering subsequent batches of the 26-ton TEDBF with the same indigenous engine as the AMCA’s.

The revival of the GE bid to co-develop the AMCA engine coincides with the development of an "Enhanced Performance Engine" or "EPE" variant of the GE-F414 for the US Navy’s F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and EA-18G Growler fleet. The EPE includes a new core and a redesigned fan and compressor, taking up the thrust by 18 per cent to 116kN. This matches or exceeds the requirements for the AMCA Mk-2.

Sources also disclosed that the EPE will have the same dimensions as the original GE-F414 variant. Hence, no modifications will be required to the air frame for fitment or retro-fitment on the initial variants of the AMCA, the TEDBF and even the Tejas Mk-2. India, of course, doesn’t seek a hand-me-down solution but wants to gain knowhow and know why through this programme to design, develop and produce jet engines on its own in the future.

Deal in the making

GE’s progress has been steady. “We expect a contract for close to 100 F414-GE-INS6 very soon,” Kim said. This follows the recent government approval for the LCA Mk-2 programme. A $716-million contract was signed by the engine company with Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) in 2021 for 99 F404 engines as power plants for the 83 Mk 1A variants of the homegrown fighter ordered by the IAF in 2021. Earlier, at least 41 F404 engines were ordered between 2004 and 2007 for the first two squadrons of the LCA Mk 1.

Top military sources have confirmed to BW Businessworld that GE is being considered along with Safran of France and Rolls Royce of the UK for collaboration on the AMCA engine. These bids are being energetically supported by their respective governments.

“The options for a tie-up are open from among the three contenders. The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is the lead agency and a private Indian entity is also likely to be involved in the programme,” sources disclosed.

Industry is clear about the priorities. “The objective of this collaboration must be to develop capability to design and build engines on our own in future,” says industry veteran Commodore Anil Jai Singh (Retired). He also sees merit in standardising the engine inventory for military jets and wants economies of scale leveraged for better price. “If there’s a big inventory for GE engines, it makes sense sticking to it, if the condition for meaningful transfer of technology is met,” says Singh.

 

[Hari Sud]

x-posting

The specifics of the American offer become clearer.. somewhat!

Second Thoughts

The US has come back with its 2019 offer to jointly develop the AMCA jet engine with India shedding ‘export control’ concerns, , Magazine Issue 5 Nov 2022

www.businessworld.in

Second Thoughts
The US has come back with its 2019 offer to jointly develop the AMCA jet engine with India shedding ‘export control’ concerns


View attachment 180503

The US has revived an offer to cooperate with India on the development of jet engine technology which could be used to power the Mk-2 variant of India’s futuristic Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

General Electric (GE) of the US, one of the world’s leading manufacturers of jet engines, has submitted a proposal for the co-development of a 110 kN thrust engine with Indian agencies for the stealth fighter.

Technologies developed for a 116 kN thrust derivative of GE’s F414 engine will be the baseline in this offer of cooperation, Youngje Kim, GE Aviation’s vice-president for Asia-Pacific Region Military Systems Operation disclosed to BW Businessworld in an exclusive interview.

“All technologies previously asked for by the government of India will be offered,” Kim announced. India had earlier sought the core engine or hot section technology for jet engines under the India-US Defence Trade and Technology Initiative (DTTI) but was turned down.

Export control concerns

That effort failed after the US cited export control concerns in transferring this technology. A joint working group on jet engine technology under the DTTI framework was thereafter disbanded in October 2019.

The turnaround by the US now is total and coincides with two ongoing Indian fighter jet procurements from the global market and a take-off stage in indigenous development and production of potentially hundreds of fighter jets over the next two decades.

So, what drove the US capitulation? “The defence relationship with India is strategically important for the US. Things have changed,” said Kim, while indicating that cutting-edge capability of GE’s Jack Welch Technology Center at Bengaluru could be leveraged for the AMCA jet engine programme.

Industry watchers read the US about-turn as a bid to retain its lead in powering India’s indigenous fighter jet programme, a position it does not wish to cede to European engine makers. The Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas is powered by the GE-F404 engine, which has an 85kN thrust. India’s Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA)’s plans for the LCA Tejas Mk-2, AMCA Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft and the Twin Engine Deck-Based Fighter (TEDBF) are also closely woven around the 98kN thrust GE-F414 engine. Several hundred of these aircraft will be produced.

Only when the AMCA programme matures to the Mk-2 level does the ADA envisage switching from a GE-F414 to an indigenous engine with a higher 110kn thrust. It is for the development of that engine that India is seeking foreign collaboration. The AMCA Mk-2 production timelines commence around 2035. ADA also plans powering subsequent batches of the 26-ton TEDBF with the same indigenous engine as the AMCA’s.

The revival of the GE bid to co-develop the AMCA engine coincides with the development of an "Enhanced Performance Engine" or "EPE" variant of the GE-F414 for the US Navy’s F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and EA-18G Growler fleet. The EPE includes a new core and a redesigned fan and compressor, taking up the thrust by 18 per cent to 116kN. This matches or exceeds the requirements for the AMCA Mk-2.

Sources also disclosed that the EPE will have the same dimensions as the original GE-F414 variant. Hence, no modifications will be required to the air frame for fitment or retro-fitment on the initial variants of the AMCA, the TEDBF and even the Tejas Mk-2. India, of course, doesn’t seek a hand-me-down solution but wants to gain knowhow and know why through this programme to design, develop and produce jet engines on its own in the future.

Deal in the making

GE’s progress has been steady. “We expect a contract for close to 100 F414-GE-INS6 very soon,” Kim said. This follows the recent government approval for the LCA Mk-2 programme. A $716-million contract was signed by the engine company with Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) in 2021 for 99 F404 engines as power plants for the 83 Mk 1A variants of the homegrown fighter ordered by the IAF in 2021. Earlier, at least 41 F404 engines were ordered between 2004 and 2007 for the first two squadrons of the LCA Mk 1.

Top military sources have confirmed to BW Businessworld that GE is being considered along with Safran of France and Rolls Royce of the UK for collaboration on the AMCA engine. These bids are being energetically supported by their respective governments.

“The options for a tie-up are open from among the three contenders. The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is the lead agency and a private Indian entity is also likely to be involved in the programme,” sources disclosed.

Industry is clear about the priorities. “The objective of this collaboration must be to develop capability to design and build engines on our own in future,” says industry veteran Commodore Anil Jai Singh (Retired). He also sees merit in standardising the engine inventory for military jets and wants economies of scale leveraged for better price. “If there’s a big inventory for GE engines, it makes sense sticking to it, if the condition for meaningful transfer of technology is met,” says Singh.

In-spite of US turn around, restrictions for US export control are too many. Each time India will have to beg for clearance for export.

Try French or even Rolls Royce if they are encumbrances free.

 

[Javelin_Sam]

I guess even with 73kN, you could take off and land given Tejas carries limited armament load. Also, if dry max thrust is around 50kN which is almost same as that of F404, Tejas will still be able to perform most of the high alpha manouvers.

From the Defexpo poster of GTRE, dry thrust variant of Kaveri producing 46 KN thrust weighs around 1180 kg. With Afterburner, it will go above 1250 kg easily. GE-F404 weighs 1045 kg and produces 49.9 KN dry thrust. In current form it will downgrade the payload and envelope of Tejas

 

[Steven Rogers]

From the Defexpo poster of GTRE, dry thrust variant of Kaveri producing 46 KN thrust weighs around 1180 kg. With Afterburner, it will go above 1250 kg easily. GE-F404 weighs 1045 kg and produces 49.9 KN dry thrust. In current form it will downgrade the payload and envelope of Tejas

The dry variant is a separate version of kaveri (for the UCAV)...

 

[WolfPack86]

FLIGHT MODE ON: INDIA LOOKS TO DEVELOP INDIGENOUS ENGINE FOR ITS DOMESTICALLY MADE MALE UAVS BY 2024
As per the DRDO, the ‘learning curve’ of the Kaveri engine project has provided an impetus towards the import substitution and has helped enhance the indigenous content of this class of engine to 80 per cent. Representational pic/Twitter


The Kaveri Derivative Engine—a DRDO project—will power the indigenously made UAVs and is expected to be completed within the next two years

India is looking to complete the development of an indigenous engine to power its domestically manufactured unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) within the next two years, News18 has learnt.

The development of the Kaveri Derivative Engine—a project of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO)—which will power the indigenously made UAVs is expected to be completed by 2024, senior DRDO officials familiar with the matter.

Homemade ‘Horsepower’

Developed by the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE), a laboratory of the DRDO, the Kaveri Engine Derivative will power the medium-altitude long-endurance (MALE) UAVs which are being developed by India’s premier R&D organisation.

As per a DRDO official, it is a non-afterburning turbofan engine with a thrust of 46kN and a maximum weight of 1,180 kg.

As per officials, the Kaveri Derivative Engine certification level ground tests and altitude tests are currently in progress.

“The high-altitude tests are in progress currently. The engine endurance testing is being planned as a part of certification of the engine by CEMILAC (Centre for Military Airworthiness & Certification, a laboratory of DRDO),” a second DRDO official said.

He clarified that the CEMILAC clearance is an ongoing process and various tests are progressing as per the certification requirements.

The officials did not respond to queries on whether the high-altitude tests for the Kaveri Derivative Engine had faced a delay and the reasons for that.

Earlier, DRDO had also designed and developed a small turbo fan engine –derivatives of which would be manufactured for a variety of UAVs—helping India achieve self-reliance in this critical technology.

The Kaveri Engine Project

As per the DRDO, the ‘learning curve’ of the Kaveri engine project has provided an impetus towards the import substitution and has helped enhance the indigenous content of this class of engine to 80%.

The Kaveri engine, which was meant to power the indigenous light combat aircraft (LCA), has been under development by GTRE since 1989.

But despite developing multiple prototypes of the engine which underwent extensive testing, including in Russia, it could not meet the criteria to qualify as an engine for a fighter aircraft.

TEJAS MK-1A was subsequently powered by the GE-F404 engines from the United States. As reported, the latest F414 GE fighter jet engines will power the TEJAS MK-2 version of TEJAS, which will be manufactured in India post a transfer of technology from the aircraft engine supplier GE Aviation.

Last year, the government told Parliament that a modified engine version is required for induction in the TEJAS, since the final operational clearance (FOC) version of it requires a higher thrust.

He had also said that the technological capabilities developed by India through the engine project will be utilised.

The second official quoted above said that while Kaveri engine components and systems have matured through extensive testing over the years, sourcing aero engine materials and manufacturing technology indigenously for the components had been a challenge due to the lack of a set ecosystem.

However, akin to the Kaveri Derivative Engine, DRDO is also working on other derivatives of the engine for a range of platforms and equipment, while continuing its work on the development of the Kaveri engine.

Flight Mode On: India Looks To Develop Indigenous Engine For Its Domestically Made Male UAVs By 2024

As per the DRDO, the ‘learning curve’ of the Kaveri engine project has provided an impetus towards the import substitution and has helped en...

www.indiandefensenews.in

 

[thebakofbakchod]

An entire year has passed and seems like there is no updates whatsoever for any of the Kaveri or its derivatives. Everything still is on paper, "soon" etc. The government nor DRDO are not serious about this at all.