Kaveri Engine

[Vamsi]

I mean do you have 2020 brouchre

no

 

[THESIS THORON]

engine comes out to be of 125kn then we can expect sidebays in amca mk2 and ig they will be retrofitted to amca mk1 in later stages

 

[Lonewolf]

engine comes out to be of 125kn then we can expect sidebays in amca mk2 and ig they will be retrofitted to amca mk1 in later stages

Retrofit ??? Nope

 

[THESIS THORON]

Retrofit ??? Nope

what do you think about the expected timeline ??

7 years

 

[Lonewolf]

what do you think about the expected timeline ??

7 years

About what ? And no i don't believe in expected timeline till it goes on production line ,it can be fast tracked or delayed depending upon the circumstances

 

[Super Flanker]

engine comes out to be of 125kn then we can expect sidebays in amca mk2 and ig they will be retrofitted to amca mk1 in later stages

As of now there is no plan to implement any sort of side Weopons bay in AMCA.

There is only Internal Weopon bay (IWB) planned for AMCA. Also which will have 4 Hardpoints inside it to Carry the Necessary ordnance.

 

[THESIS THORON]

As of now there is no plan to implement any sort of side Weopons bay in AMCA.

There is only Internal Weopon bay (IWB) planned for AMCA. Also which will have 4 Hardpoints inside it to Carry the Necessary ordnance.
View attachment 141158

sideways bay was added afterwards in f35 (retrofitting )

 

[Super Flanker]

sideways bay was added afterwards in f35 (retrofitting )

Who told you that F-35 has side Weopons bay? Could you show me a picture of F-35 with Side Weopons. I think so you are confusing F-22 side Weopons bay with F-35.

 

[THESIS THORON]

Who told you that F-35 has side Weopons bay? Could you show me a picture of F-35 with Side Weopons. I think so you are confusing F-22 side Weopons bay with F-35.

Yeah f22

 

[Super Flanker]

Yeah f22

If AMCA Will indeed have side Weopons bay (I think so we can expect this in the MK-2 version) than most probably NGCCM will be Integrated and used from here and the other main Internal Weopons Bay will be strictly reserved for Bigger BVR Missiles like Astra MK-1, MK-2, MK-3 etc.

But as of now there is no IWB (Internal Weopons Bay) being planned for AMCA.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

That's why I said, maybe, maybe, the design is being uprated. Or ADA has realised, the fighter itself will be heavier than they had planned. Moreover, if we do not use the 125KN engine, we would have all fighters equipped with GE404 and 414IN/EPE engines. More.info will be our when we sign the agreement.

125 KN does mot matter much because it is the highest thrust with Afterburner. 75 kn dry thrust is very impressive and can significantly improve MTOW if airframe so provide.

 

[pipebomb]

We are making a grave mistake by continuing with medium weight class engine. There is still time to redirect our effort towards a f119/izdeliye30/ws15/xf9 class engine

Now I have been cooking some 'khayali pulao' which i would like serve here at DFI, interested members can indulge themselves.

If India has ambition to become a future global super power in next 3-4 decades single engine AMCA makes a ton of strategic sence and also some operational.

First let me shortlist operational gains :

i} Level of difficulty of designing and manufacturing a low bypass military jet engine increases with reduction in size. Simply because of tighter margins. Hence a bigger(f119 or izd30) single engine AMCA makes more sense.

ii} The financial input required for design & development of a smaller engine & larger one is more or less the same.

iii} Single engine aircraft has significantly lower operating and lifecycle cost.

iv} Single engine AMCA would also have higher export potential.

Now lets look at numerous strategic benefits

1] A larger engine would mean IAF can build their own heavy air superiority fighter like f-15, su-30, su-57, j-20 etc.

2] IAF could design a long range stealth bomber with four similar engines.

3] There could be a high bypass variant of this engine which would enable us to build c17 & c2 equivalent aircraft transport fleet.(then we will only need 1(c27j or il112v) instead of 4 types of foreign aircrafts in IAF fleet as we already have do228)

4] We could design Wide body civil/military aircraft(for eg a330mrtt, kc46 or an awacs)

These are all super power capabilities only in possession of us, former Soviet union & future china will possess . IAF with indigenous heavy fighter, home grown tranport fleet & a long range stealth bomber, home grown tanker and awacs fleet will secure our seat to the high table.

Also what this engine could do for our civil airline sector, to our manufacturing sector, our foreign exchange reserves.

This is the GOLDEN ticket to a truly atmanirbhar bharat.

 

[MonaLazy]

We are making a grave mistake by continuing with medium weight class engine. There is still time to redirect our effort towards a f119/izdeliye30/ws15/xf9 class engine

Do we really need to cross oceans to meet our adversary? Not quite. Thankfully, they are co-located with us. If you don't need the range then why increase size unnecessarily and then fight to reduce RCS?

Secondly, if we can deliver a 125KN 4m engine, we can definitely do a 200KN 5m engine destined for an AHCA with the same materials at some point in the future. As for the other derivatives like high bypass, rotary, marine, turbo prop etc- all those are already being planned.

 

[johnj]

RR is collab-ing with the Japanese for their next-gen fighter engine effort- so they already have partners, support and funds. Also, one reason for pitting the RR against Safran would have been to go easy on the IPR, once RR tom-tom'd Safran had to fall in line or risk losing meaty business. Secondly, working with RR on something so strategic would have put us in the American camp who are already threatening CAATSA- God only knows how many stop/starts & delays a 10 year program with the UK/Americans would have suffered.

RR want business with india,by selling engines for ship, aircraft etc. JV is to sweeten the deals. UK trying hard to sell military equipment and for a trade pact. IPR and TT on offer still a big question. RR works with US defence sector and Japan working with US for F3, and US don't like sharing[UK] critical TOT to India. France is the best option, but we need to sweeten the deal, like more airbus buy or rafale.

 

[johnj]

Do we really need to cross oceans to meet our adversary? Not quite. Thankfully, they are co-located with us. If you don't need the range then why increase size unnecessarily and then fight to reduce RCS?

Secondly, if we can deliver a 125KN 4m engine, we can definitely do a 200KN 5m engine destined for an AHCA with the same materials at some point in the future. As for the other derivatives like high bypass, rotary, marine, turbo prop etc- all those are already being planned.

India had plans for izdeliye30 engine and su30mki comes under heavy category.
So, what is the current status of 125kn engine ? Its going to take a long time and need to fix kaveri.
'we really need to cross oceans to meet our adversary' - are you considering 6th gen or others ?

 

[MonaLazy]

RR want business with india,by selling engines for ship, aircraft etc. JV is to sweeten the deals. UK trying hard to sell military equipment and for a trade pact. IPR and TT on offer still a big question. RR works with US defence sector and Japan working with US for F3, and US don't like sharing[UK] critical TOT to India. France is the best option, but we need to sweeten the deal, like more airbus buy or rafale.

From Indian PoV France is a much better partner than the UK/US- it has been more reliable. What you say about US sharing critical ToT is true though they fronted UK to not miss out on a lucrative market after GE (& presumably P & W) were refused permission to share critical tech. RR even promised full IPR with India- but that makes sense for a country like Japan that is firmly in the American orbit.

Rolls-Royce to develop joint future fighter engine demonstrator with IHI

Rolls-Royce to develop joint future fighter engine demonstrator with IHI

www.rolls-royce.com

India had plans for izdeliye30 engine and su30mki comes under heavy category.
So, what is the current status of 125kn engine ? Its going to take a long time and need to fix kaveri.
'we really need to cross oceans to meet our adversary' - are you considering 6th gen or others ?

Very early stages

DRDO, Safran close in on agreement to develop engine for indigenous stealth fighter

With deal likely to be inked soon, India and France will collaborate to build a 125KN engine for Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

www.thehindu.com

Let's first nail this, then look at 5m engines for the heavy class of fighter planes.

 

[johnj]

From Indian PoV France is a much better partner than the UK/US- it has been more reliable. What you say about US sharing critical ToT is true though they fronted UK to not miss out on a lucrative market after GE (& presumably P & W) were refused permission to share critical tech. RR even promised full IPR with India- but that makes sense for a country like Japan that is firmly in the American orbit.

Rolls-Royce to develop joint future fighter engine demonstrator with IHI

Rolls-Royce to develop joint future fighter engine demonstrator with IHI

www.rolls-royce.com

Very early stages

DRDO, Safran close in on agreement to develop engine for indigenous stealth fighter

With deal likely to be inked soon, India and France will collaborate to build a 125KN engine for Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

www.thehindu.com

Let's first nail this, then look at 5m engines for the heavy class of fighter planes.

Totally agree. I think, UK made IPR offer to reduce risk of brexit and they need partners. Now UK having JV of aam and engine with japan.

 

[pipebomb]

Do we really need to cross oceans to meet our adversary? Not quite. Thankfully, they are co-located with us.

Air offensive against cheen needs longer range, as their industrial centers lies in east. Its good to have options, can't expect fighting will be limited to tibet.

But our real baba yaga lies in middle of Indian Ocean, diego garcia.

Secondly, if we can deliver a 125KN 4m engine, we can definitely do a 200KN 5m engine destined for an AHCA with the same materials at some point in the future.

But why duplicate efforts with our non existent r&d budget.

As for the other derivatives like high bypass, rotary, marine, turbo prop etc- all those are already being planned.

Achieving above mentioned variants will be a lot easier if we focus on a bigger diameter engine.

The most puzzling thing, is it will be similar development cost for bigger diameter engine. Then why not.

I tried to find any downside with this approach (bigger diameter) but i don't see any. It will be most welcome if someone can point out.

 

[MonaLazy]

Air offensive against cheen needs longer range, as their industrial centers lies in east. Its good to have options, can't expect fighting will be limited to tibet.

Best attacked via ACC and subs in SCS. Why fly over thousands of kilometres of hostile territory to offload even stand off weapons.

But our real baba yaga lies in middle of Indian Ocean, diego garcia.


But why duplicate efforts with our non existent r&d budget.

There is no duplication. AMCA is specc'd exactly as per IAFs ASQRs. Bigger engines also mean higher cost per flying hour being bigger fuel guzzlers. If we can do 125KN with 4m engine reaching upto 2350K TET, we can do better than F135/XF-9 in 5m- that isn't a tech leap just a design problem.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Best attacked via ACC and subs in SCS. Why fly over thousands of kilometres of hostile territory to offload even stand off weapons.



There is no duplication. AMCA is specc'd exactly as per IAFs ASQRs. Bigger engines also mean higher cost per flying hour being bigger fuel guzzlers. If we can do 125KN with 4m engine reaching upto 2350K TET, we can do better than F135/XF-9 in 5m- that isn't a tech leap just a design problem.

GE 414 EPE with significantly more power has same dimensions as GE414 IN 6. It has 1% better fuel efficiency. If power comes by improving design and metallurgy, it is possible to omprove power and fuel efficiency together.