Kaveri Engine

[Akula]

Kaveri is a project to promote India's indigenization on jet engine. What you mean high indigenization?
If the indigenization is not high, what the point to start the project?



No, the first thing you need to learn is what your ONLY customer want.



The Manik engine is still under the development by DRDO.

Here is the website of Bharat Forge

Bharat Forge - Aircraft Compressor, Turbine Manufacturer in India

There is no mention of cruise missile engine.

 

[varun9509]

DRDO develops Single Crystal Blades for HTSE-1200 helicopter engine application

Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has developed single crystal blades technology and supplied 60 of these blades to Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) as part of their indigenous helicopter development program for helicopter engine application. It is part of a program taken up by Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory (DMRL), a premium laboratory of DRDO, to develop five sets (300 in number) of single crystal high pressure turbine (HPT) blades using a nickel-based super alloy. The supply of remaining four sets will be completed in due course.

Helicopters used in strategic and defence applications need compact and powerful aero-engines for their reliable operation at extreme conditions. To achieve this, state-of-the-art Single Crystal Blades having complex shape and geometry, manufactured out of Nickel based superalloys capable of withstanding high temperatures of operation are used. Very few countries in the world such as USA, UK, France and Russia have the capability to design and manufacture such Single Crystal (SX) components.

The DMRL undertook this task based on its expertise gained during the development of such a technology for an aero-engine project earlier. Complete vacuum investment casting process to realise the blades, including die design, wax pattering, ceramic moulding, actual casting of components non-destructive evaluation (NDE), heat treatment and dimensional measurement, has been established at DMRL.

Special ceramic composition had to be formulated for making strong ceramic moulds which can withstand metallostatic pressure of liquid CMSX-4 alloy at 1500°C and above during casting operation. The challenge of maintaining the required temperature gradient has also been overcome by optimising the casting parameters. A multi-step vacuum solutionising heat treatment schedule for complex CMSX-4 superalloy to achieve the required microstructure and mechanical properties has also been established.Further, a stringent non-destructive evaluation (NDE) methodology for the blades along with the technique for determining their crystallographic orientations has been developed.

Raksha Mantri Shri Rajnath Singh has congratulated DRDO, HAL and the industry involved in the development of critical technology.

Secretary Department of Defence R&D and Chairman DRDO Dr G Satheesh Reddy congratulated and appreciated the efforts involved in the indigenous development of this vital technology.

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Wait a minute, 1500 Celsius? We are already in the M88 territory with this? Can someone explain whats going on? Why are we not testing it on Kaveri already?

 

[Lonewolf]

Wait a minute, 1500 Celsius? We are already in the M88 territory with this? Can someone explain whats going on? Why are we not testing it on Kaveri already?

Different engine , different blade , different requirement , kaveri is a much more complicated problem, we superseed al 41

 

[Vamsi]

Guys, if we managed to develop a High bypass version based on Kaveri, what will be the max possible thrust?
@Haldilal @porky_kicker @Chinmoy @Lonewolf @Hariharan_kalarikkal @Karthi

 

[Lonewolf]

Guys, if we managed to develop a High bypass version based on Kaveri, what will be the max possible thrust?
@Haldilal @porky_kicker @Chinmoy @Lonewolf @Hariharan_kalarikkal @Karthi

That's a quite good question , i would suggest compare to f101 , unlike older american engine high on afterburner thrust ,ours will most probably be like newer engine like ej200 , f135 ,with dry thrust about 75 kn , similar to f101 , so we can compare it to leap series of engine , we can achieve 100 kn of high bypass thrust , Enough to develop indigenous 737 Boeing , so our own plane based on rta 90 , which can be used as aerial tanker , refuelers , transporter , and all is very muxh possible

 

[Chinmoy]

Guys, if we managed to develop a High bypass version based on Kaveri, what will be the max possible thrust?
@Haldilal @porky_kicker @Chinmoy @Lonewolf @Hariharan_kalarikkal @Karthi

We can't develop a High Bypass engine based on Kaveri. But we could develop a High Bypass engine based on its core, Kabini.

How much thrust it would be able to produce, we can't make a guess of that. It would depend on the bypass ratio for which it would be designed.

 

[Vamsi]

We can't develop a High Bypass engine based on Kaveri. But we could develop a High Bypass engine based on its core, Kabini.

How much thrust it would be able to produce, we can't make a guess of that. It would depend on the bypass ratio for which it would be designed.

This is what I meant ,based on the core. Lets assume bypass ratio of 5, then what will be the thrust?

 

[Chinmoy]

This is what I meant ,based on the core. Lets assume bypass ratio of 5, then what will be the thrust?

Its not a simple math problem. Bypass ratio of 5 means for every 1 kg of air flowing through the core, 5 kg of air would flow around it.

At present, the airflow is 78kg/second which makes the airflow around the engine to be roughly 12 kg/sec. But even this 78kg air don't directly goes into combustion. So calculating it based on the current design would not be an intelligent thing to do.

 

[Vamsi]

Its not a simple math problem. Bypass ratio of 5 means for every 1 kg of air flowing through the core, 5 kg of air would flow around it.

At present, the airflow is 78kg/second which makes the airflow around the engine to be roughly 12 kg/sec. But even this 78kg air don't directly goes into combustion. So calculating it based on the current design would not be an intelligent thing to do.

Is there any high bypass engine based on F404 core or anyother core similar to Kabini? That may help us to guess atleast

 

[Karthi]

Guys, if we managed to develop a High bypass version based on Kaveri, what will be the max possible thrust?
@Haldilal @porky_kicker @Chinmoy @Lonewolf @Hariharan_kalarikkal @Karthi

almost impossible to predict , bypass ratio means mass of air passing through the core : mass of air passing through the engine bypass duct . Thrust = thrust of core + thrust of bypass/fan. so for kaveri engine the core thrust almost same what that produce currently , total thrust depends upon the Turbofan and the bypass duct design . for the same purpose DRDO developed a new fan for Kaveri engine . not only that in the high bypass engine the bypass air can use to cool the engine and exhaust plume so that the IR signature can reduce. F35 engine is an example .

 

[Karthi]

Ti-6Al-4V super alloy for kaveri engine forging stock

ring forging in hot stage

ring rolling on kaveri forging

Final product Kaveri engine ring Forging .

Macrostructure and grain flow pattern of Ti-64 alloy used in Kaveri

Microstructure and grain flow pattern of Ti-64 alloy used in Kaveri

 

[Karthi]

BLISK rotor at testing

evaluating the effect of probe axial shaft

 

[Chinmoy]

Is there any high bypass engine based on F404 core or anyother core similar to Kabini? That may help us to guess atleast

No.

The core of any engine matters a lot. You have to redesign the core for any new design you want to achieve. Even in our case, replacing the DSB with SCB needed design change in core. So designing a HBR engine around a LBR core would be Jugaad at best.

 

[gutenmorgen]

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Ti-6Al-4V super alloy for kaveri engine forging stock

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ring forging in hot stage

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ring rolling on kaveri forging

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Final product Kaveri engine ring Forging .

View attachment 87001

Macrostructure and grain flow pattern of Ti-64 alloy used in Kaveri

View attachment 87002

Microstructure and grain flow pattern of Ti-64 alloy used in Kaveri

Any images of the Kaveri turbine blades and its microstructure??

 

[Ghost hale]

Kaveri dry thrust is supposed to be 52KN or 46KN? There are conflicting reports.

 

[Vamsi]

Kaveri dry thrust is supposed to be 52KN or 46KN? There are conflicting reports.

Initially it is 52KN ,but for Ghatak they have downrated it.

 

[Ghost hale]

Initially it is 52KN ,but for Ghatak they have downrated it.

If so than can't it be replacement for F404In20. With some improvements in afterburner section. DRDO chief commented that with 46KN dry and 74KN with afterburner it is underpowered. But 52KN is greater than dry thrust of F404 and improved Afterburner section can help us with the same to achieve similar to 85KN of IN20s.

 

[Vamsi]

If so than can't it be replacement for F404In20. With some improvements in afterburner section. DRDO chief commented that with 46KN dry and 74KN with afterburner it is underpowered. But 52KN is greater than dry thrust of F404 and improved Afterburner section can help us with the same to achieve similar to 85KN of IN20s.

The problem with Afterburner is ,it cannot sustain thrust for enough time. There are other issues like screech and rumble. Some people say both of those issues were solved while others says that those two issues still remains. Don't know whom we should believe . But what I understand is that ,first they want to perfect dry thrust and after making it reliable they may once again focus on afterburner.

 

[Ghost hale]

The problem with Afterburner is ,it cannot sustain thrust for enough time. There are other issues like screech and rumble. Some people say both of those issues were solved while others says that those two issues still remains. Don't know whom we should believe . But what I understand is that ,first they want to perfect dry thrust and after making it reliable they may once again focus on afterburner.

Timeline which is being quoted for dry is 2023 in production so that 2024 UCAV can be taken care of. Ground testing this year and flight test next in france or russia. The Kaveri engine with afterburner improved on, MOU with RR for 110KN + 20KN upgrade possible and MOU with safran with TOT to HAL for M 88 are both economical and will create a large pool of skilled force. An aircraft usually needs engine change in 3k-4k flight hours. A lot of money can be made and saved on long term basis. Even export restrictions will be well taken care of. We can keep GE but atleast test kaveri on LSPs as TD. It seems good idea.

 

[Vamsi]

Timeline which is being quoted for dry is 2023 in production so that 2024 UCAV can be taken care of. Ground testing this year and flight test next in france or russia. The Kaveri engine with afterburner improved on, MOU with RR for 110KN + 20KN upgrade possible and MOU with safran with TOT to HAL for M 88 are both economical and will create a large pool of skilled force. An aircraft usually needs engine change in 3k-4k flight hours. A lot of money can be made and saved on long term basis. Even export restrictions will be well taken care of. We can keep GE but atleast test kaveri on LSPs as TD. It seems good idea.

M88 TOT is just screw drivergiri. I still don't understand why french proposed to replace Kaveri's core with theirs when our core is working fine and when the real problem is with afterburner. They should work on afterburner right? I doubt whether french tried to fix the problems with afterburner or not.