Kaveri Engine

BeEverVectorMan

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Rocket engines are fundamentally different from gas turbines. Although a turbopump is used in liquid fuelled engines, it's combustion temperature is only around 850-1000K. Air-breathing turbines reach far higher temperatures. This is why ISRO scientists and engineers are not suitable for this job.
I hope you know that GTRE had many ISRO help in its initial phase when kaveri engine was not on even in drawing phase
Again my pov is no foreign help
Like we made one of the powerful second stage thruster for our cryogenic by our indigenious way
This too can be made
 

Physx32

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I hope you know that GTRE had many ISRO help in its initial phase when kaveri engine was not on even in drawing phase
Again my pov is no foreign help
Like we made one of the powerful second stage thruster for our cryogenic by our indigenious way
This too can be made
Of course our engineers and scientists can do this, the problem is GOI is not keen on investing on R&D.
 

IndianHawk

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So the JV will develop a new engine core mostly by drdo with precise input from rolls Royce. And then afterburning module by drdo.

That's how India could retain the IP.

While all these deals sound speculating something has to give .

India is building 123 lca + 200 mwf +100tedbf+ 200 can== 700+ domestic jets over next two decades. And then more and more.

That's an engine market of 2000-3000 engines over lifetime easily. Someone to stuck on ipr will loose this market forever ( safran?) . The British might part with IP of older tech as they move to adaptive engine for tempest and make billions out of this market.

Sooner or later someone will bite the bullet . This is worlds biggest engine market for Western firms after USA. ( As china and Russia both are isolated in this area).

Let's see what happens.
 

Anandhu Krishna

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So the JV will develop a new engine core mostly by drdo with precise input from rolls Royce. And then afterburning module by drdo.

That's how India could retain the IP.

While all these deals sound speculating something has to give .

India is building 123 lca + 200 mwf +100tedbf+ 200 can== 700+ domestic jets over next two decades. And then more and more.

That's an engine market of 2000-3000 engines over lifetime easily. Someone to stuck on ipr will loose this market forever ( safran?) . The British might part with IP of older tech as they move to adaptive engine for tempest and make billions out of this market.

Sooner or later someone will bite the bullet . This is worlds biggest engine market for Western firms after USA. ( As china and Russia both are isolated in this area).

Let's see what happens.
Every single engine we make, money will go to RR
 

Concard

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Are we talking about 110kN dry thrust or wet thrust engine? Either way we need to bring to the table $2 billion initially to seduce RR at first. It's very important if this IP transfer and building the engine is successful our Scientists in future should be able to build even better engines in future.
 

IndianHawk

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Are we talking about 110kN dry thrust or wet thrust engine? Either way we need to bring to the table $2 billion initially to seduce RR at first. It's very important if this IP transfer and building the engine is successful our Scientists in future should be able to build even better engines in future.
110kn wet thrust. 70kn + dry is desirable.
 

Concard

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110kn wet thrust. 70kn + dry is desirable.
The required thrust we want somewhat indicates AMCA is not a bigger aircraft. Shouldn't we have gone for 110 kn dry thrust requirement which would have made sure upgrading the jets in future would have been more easier?
 

IndianHawk

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The required thrust we want somewhat indicates AMCA is not a bigger aircraft. Shouldn't we have gone for 110 kn dry thrust requirement which would have made sure upgrading the jets in future would have been more easier?
A bigger jet means much more money to procure and maintain.

AMCA will be around 25ton to 30 ton mtow. For this 110kn×2== 220 kn is more than enough.
 

ARVION

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The required thrust we want somewhat indicates AMCA is not a bigger aircraft. Shouldn't we have gone for 110 kn dry thrust requirement which would have made sure upgrading the jets in future would have been more easier?
The AMCA is a mid weight aircraft, so with two 110 KN's that would have been 220 KN's, F 135 Produces 190 KN's. F 119 produces 160 KN's that for 320 KN's.
 

airtel

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The required thrust we want somewhat indicates AMCA is not a bigger aircraft. Shouldn't we have gone for 110 kn dry thrust requirement which would have made sure upgrading the jets in future would have been more easier?



110 kn dry thrust means about 180kn wet thrust and for a twin engine aircraft total thrust would be 360 KN ......Bhai TANK udana hai Kya ?😆😆
 

ARVION

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110 kn dry thrust means about 180kn wet thrust and for a twin engine aircraft total thrust would be 360 KN ......Bhai TANK udana hai Kya ?😆😆
110 KN' with Twin's 220 KN's, what are you saying for hot climate for 180 KN's, don't worry the engine's will be rated for hot climates.
 

Assassin 2.0

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110 kn dry thrust means about 180kn wet thrust and for a twin engine aircraft total thrust would be 360 KN ......Bhai TANK udana hai Kya ?😆😆
Yes if you are making a heavy weight 5Th gen aircraft like J-20 you need two 170+kn thrust engines to make it capable to do super cruise.
Even with AL-41 140kn engines J-20 is failing to do super cruise.
Because of limitations of carrying fuel pods and internal capacity it's very important for 5th gen fighter to do super cruise.
But this thing is not applicable for Amca our aircraft will shine because it's medium weight fighter and will be able to do super cruise with 110kn engine. Tho 110 Kn engine which india seek will be also class leading because of having highest thrust in it's class size of engine also matters.
Unlike half backed heavy weight 5th gen fighter's.
 

airtel

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Yes if you are making a heavy weight 5Th gen aircraft like J-20 you need two 170+kn thrust engines to make it capable to do super cruise.
Even with AL-41 140kn engines J-20 is failing to do super cruise.
Because of limitations of carrying fuel pods and internal capacity it's very important for 5th gen fighter to do super cruise.
Amca will shine because it's medium weight fighter and will be able to do super cruise with 110kn engine.

170+ kn thrust is achieved with the help of afterburner , that is irrelevant for super Cruise because super Cruise abilities are dependent on dry thrust only .

5th generation engines are compact .
Big engines would occupy more space and waste more fuel and would emit more heat signature so it is extremely difficult to make a stealth jet around such a big engine .
J20 is not a good design , F22 has much better abilities in every area despite having smaller engines than WS15 .
 
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Assassin 2.0

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Bhai 170+ kn thrust is achieved with the help of afterburner , that is irrelevant for super Cruise because super Cruise abilities are dependent on dry thrust only .

5th generation engines are compact .
Big engines would occupy more space and waste more fuel and would emit more heat signature so it is extremely difficult to make a stealth jet around such a big engine .
Bhai but
A 170Kn engine with afterburner will also make higher dry thrust than less powerful 140kn thrust engine like AL-41 which makes 86Kn of dry thrust.
Chinese 5Th generation fighter is a disaster because that jet cannot do super cruise and to make it capable of super cruise they aim to make WS-15 dry thrust 125KN and wet thrust 180KN.
 

ARVION

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Bhai but
A 170Kn engine with afterburner will also make higher dry thrust than less powerful 140kn thrust engine like AL-41 which makes 86Kn of dry thrust.
Chinese 5Th generation fighter is a disaster because that jet cannot do super cruise and to make it capable of super cruise they aim to make WS-15 dry thrust 125KN and wet thrust 180KN.
That will be only achieved after many many year's.
 

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