Kaveri Engine

[Assassin 2.0]

Sadly, but that does appear to be the case as of now. Further reinforced by Air Marshal Sir-

No disrespect to the Post of Air marshal but these were the same guy's which rejected single engine tejas fighter in 2014-15 and were willing to push for F-21 single engine jets. And also for MMRCA i can show tons of retired rear admiral pilots and other staff working in Boeing lM and foreign based companies. Hence i don't take words of these people seriously.
Claiming something is dead when work is going on government setting up new teams. And Ghatak engine will be developed from kaveri itself.

does seem like GTRE having failed to develop a reliable 50/80 kN (dry/wet thrust) F-404 class engine will now embark on a 75 kN/110 kN engine from scratch! Given that jet engine performance degrades in hot Indian weather they will have to develop an engine that in the west (benchmark engine OEMs) develops 85-90/120-125 kN!! That has to fit in the size of a F-414 which the initial AMCA variants will be built around! I think this program has failure written all over it.

This statement is quite funny i would say what was the requirement of airforce when LCA program was started? They asked for engine which creates 70KN after Bruning thrust and kaveri did that. With less funding sanctions their was no infrastructure and no support from babudom and Airforce which always loved foreign ka maal. we should have kept in mind that Kaveri could have required a lil extra space and for installation. Many countries use Foreign made engines till the time they are developing their own engine and then they shift towards indigenous one's. We should have designed tejas around kaveri rather than around GE-404.
If we go around western engine standards they are pushing 191 KN after Bruning thrust we will not be able to develop a engine like that in 30 years so we should kill the amca program no when their is will their is a way IAF and ADA focused to develop a jet with dual 90KN engine.

The biggest surprise? Don't see these very well established OEMs bandying around ANY power figures at all! OTOH, ADA (designer) & GTRE (developer) will start with an impossible spec sheet in hand. What gives?

With enough funding infrastructure any thing is possible if soviets and Americans would have thought the same they would have never been able to achieve great achievements in space.
Development of jet engine is not impossible it's difficult. Chinese have also done it by hook or crook government of india failed because politicians never cared about such things. You can go back few pages and see how Russian jet engine experts were available for 1000$ a month and no one thought to add them in project. Chinese have used tons of ex soviet and Ukrainian scientists in their programs.

Tempest initial budget US$2.6 billion- AMCA was sanctioned US$14 million for feasibility study and another US$60 million for detailed design phase - the Defence Ministry is looking for about US$1.1 billion over 10 years to make 2 TDs and 7 prototypes.

7. Currently, it is a twin-engine, delta-wing, stealth fighter capable of carrying hypersonic missiles and controlling drone swarms. In addition it has reconfigurable, cyber-hardened communications that allow the aircraft to act as a flying command and control center.

8. The engine has been in development since 2014 (now into its 6th year) at RR which has decades of experience in jet engine manufacture. The engine program was launched BEFORE the fighter programme.

Better not to compare RR with GTRE. RR is one of the oldest and greatest company in development of jet engines they spend billions of $ in R&D. RR also worked for development of F-35 engines.
And anyway our first enemies are Chinese and napaks they failed to master any 5th generation jet let's leave talking about 6TH generation jet.
And UK itself have launched tons of jet programs in past and later killed them to become partner of American programs this was the one of the main reason why british airspace industry died.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Japanese created IHI Corporation XF5 which is under development from 1970s they are now pushing that engine is a competitive to Pratt & Whitney F135.

when Mitsubishi X-2 Shinshin experimental aircraft took to air for the first time and was to be used as a template for testing many of the technologies required for the F-3 program but it was mocked by many western and Chinese defense analysts after it was found that Japan used an under poweredIHI developed XF5-1 low-bypass turbofan engines which barely generated 49kN of Wet thrust but many were in for shock and surprise when IHI showcased fully developed XF-9-1 prototypes in 2017 and started testing them in 2018. XF-9-1 prototype already has gone through Maximum verification thrust tests in 2018 and already demonstrated 108kN of dry and 150kN of wet thrust, IHI team which begin its research in the development of low-by pass turbofan engine in ’70s, started from developing a basic F3-IHI-30 engines (16.32 kN ) to power its T-4 Subsonic trainer and then later moved to develop XF3-400 engine (30kN) and later developed XF5-1engines (49kN) which became base to develop F-7 (60kN) engine which is used to power Kawasaki P-1 maritime patrol aircraft but Japan was still not able to develop any engine beyond 60kN Wet Thrust which was one of the reasons many mocked them when they announced to develop 5th.


Repost.
India should have went the same way.
Do you know why india never focused to develop jet engine well it's because requirement of money is great and in profitability in that business is less. Hence government always find importing or getting licensed production easier.

 

[MonaLazy]

What gives?

Not saying ADA/GTRE should not pursue an engine program. But the approach is wrong. The engine power spec they want for the AMCA in the size they want currently does not exist in the world. They will work it for 10-15 years get 60-90% of the way home (factoring in a large variance in success) but it will always be inferior and incomplete because the starting benchmark has been set very very high and the IAF will hold their feet to fire over it.

So why start with a gold plated platinum standard spec sheet in hand from the get go?

 

[MonaLazy]

India should have went the same way

You are echoing my point.

Where is our progression from 16.32 kN > 30 kN > 49 kN > 60 kN > 108 kN?

We will start with 125kN! After failing with development of a much less powerful jet engine.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

You are echoing my point.

Where is our progression from 16.32 kN > 30 kN > 49 kN > 60 kN > 108 kN?

We will start with 125kN! After failing with development of a much less powerful jet engine.

Once you have developed a stable core then you can always work to enhance it just in the same way how Russians updated Al-41 with multiple pass blades were as Al-31 was with single pass blades.

That's the reason why we are focused in development of claimed dead engine program. Its not about putting it in tejas it's about getting know how of jet engine technology. We are asking Americans French brits to get know how.
India have already developed 50Kn dry and 72kn wet thrust. That's the reason why GTRE is confident about development of K-10.
You can Google how many American engines are based on the same good old core

GE-404 developed into GE-414 and the same engine have multiple improved variants.

That is how Japanese developed their own jet engine they slowly updated that engine.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

 

[no smoking]

Development of jet engine is not impossible it's difficult. Chinese have also done it by hook or crook government of india failed because politicians never cared about such things. You can go back few pages and see how Russian jet engine experts were available for 1000$ a month and no one thought to add them in project. Chinese have used tons of ex soviet and Ukrainian scientists in their programs.

It is really funny.
In previous post, you claim that India doesn't want old, obsolete Russian/Soviet technologies to develop jet engines. You would rather have the whole program stuck in long time delay than having a functional India's own engine based on old technologies. Now you are blaming your government for not hiring Russian/Soviet scientists in the program, who can only bring nothing but those old technologies you teased before.

 

[Vorschlaghammer]

Sadly, but that does appear to be the case as of now. Further reinforced by Air Marshal Sir-

It does seem like GTRE having failed to develop a reliable 50/80 kN (dry/wet thrust) F-404 class engine will now embark on a 75 kN/110 kN engine from scratch! Given that jet engine performance degrades in hot Indian weather they will have to develop an engine that in the west (benchmark engine OEMs) develops 85-90/120-125 kN!! That has to fit in the size of a F-414 which the initial AMCA variants will be built around! I think this program has failure written all over it.

However, I hope IAF/ADA/GTRE are not so focussed on the thrust requirements alone that they lose track of new demands placed on the fighters of the 2030's.

This, this, this and this have some details of the Tempest 6th gen program. Salients-

1. Future jet fighters will be very electricity-hungry, carrying lasers and other energy weapons, advanced sensors and avionics, and swarming technologies. This means that the old engines that were made mainly to pump out thrust aren't up to the job.

2. Existing aircraft engines generate power through a gearbox underneath the engine, which drives a generator. In addition to adding moving parts and complexity, the space required outside the engine for the gearbox and generator makes the airframe larger, which is undesirable in a stealthy platform

3. It incorporates an Embedded Electrical Starter Generator (or E2SG)- E2SG has been embedded in the core of a gas turbine engine. The electrical embedded starter-generator will save space and provide the large amount of electrical power required by future fighters.

4. Heat management.

5. Team Tempest partners include BAE Systems, Rolls-Royce, MBDA, Leonardo, Defense Equipment & Support, and RAF Rapid Capability Office - do we have a similar consortium?

6. Tempest initial budget US$2.6 billion- AMCA was sanctioned US$14 million for feasibility study and another US$60 million for detailed design phase - the Defence Ministry is looking for about US$1.1 billion over 10 years to make 2 TDs and 7 prototypes.

7. Currently, it is a twin-engine, delta-wing, stealth fighter capable of carrying hypersonic missiles and controlling drone swarms. In addition it has reconfigurable, cyber-hardened communications that allow the aircraft to act as a flying command and control center.

8. The engine has been in development since 2014 (now into its 6th year) at RR which has decades of experience in jet engine manufacture. The engine program was launched BEFORE the fighter programme.

The biggest surprise? Don't see these very well established OEMs bandying around ANY power figures at all! OTOH, ADA (designer) & GTRE (developer) will start with an impossible spec sheet in hand. What gives?

What are those ducts behind the fan section ? Is RR trying to pull off a turboramjet like J58 ?

 

[MonaLazy]

What are those ducts behind the fan section ? Is RR trying to pull off a turboramjet like J58 ?

Think it's for extended range in the subsonic regime. The info graphic mentions a controllable 3rd stream bleed. That sounds similar to GE's ADVENT variable cycle jet engine.

Quoted -
combine the best traits of turbojet and turbofan engines, delivering supersonic speed capability and fuel efficiency in one package.

There are two main species of jet engines for aviation: low-bypass turbofans, usually called turbojets, and high-bypass turbofans. Turbojets are optimized for high-performance, pushing fighter jets to above Mach 2 (and the SR-71 "Blackbird" to well over Mach 3), but pay for that performance with terrible fuel efficiency. The performance outcome of a conventional turbojet is dominated by the operation of the high-pressure engine core (compressor, combustion, turbine, and exhaust nozzle).

In contrast, high-bypass turbofans are the heavy lifters of commercial aviation, being optimized for subsonic thrust and fuel efficiency, but performing poorly at supersonic speeds. A conventional turbofan adds lower-pressure airflow from an oversized fan which is driven by the jet turbine. The fan airflow bypasses the combustion chamber, acting like a large propeller.

In an ADVENT (ADaptive VErsitile ENgine Technology) engine, the high-pressure core exhaust and the low-pressure bypass streams of a conventional turbofan are joined by a third, outer flowpath that can be opened and closed in response to flight conditions. For takeoff, the third stream is closed off to reduce the bypass ratio. This sends more of the airflow through the high-pressure core to increase thrust. When cruising, the third bypass stream is opened to increase the bypass ratio and reduce fuel consumption.

The extra bypass duct can be seen running along the top and bottom of the engine. This third duct will be opened or closed as part of a variable cycle to transform it from a strike aircraft engine to a transport-type engine. If the duct is open the bypass ratio will increase, reducing fuel burn, and increasing subsonic range by up to 40 percent, leading to 60 percent longer loiter times on target. If the ducts are closed, additional air is forced through the core and high pressure compressor, enabling thrust and speed to increase and providing world-class supersonic performance.

 

[MonaLazy]

controllable 3rd stream bleed

it additionally also acts as a heat sink for better thermal management.

For AMCA we have to target adaptive cycle engines if Safran or RR are willing to hand hold. GE has already tested its XA 100

The problem the Americans are trying to address is the relatively short unrefueled range of a bit more than 600 nautical miles with the current P & W F-135. Enter GE with its XA100 adaptive engine (the battle is still far from over with P & W trying to make F-135 adaptive).

Quoting from here & here -

the XA100 ramps up engine thrust by 10 percent while simultaneously improving fuel efficiency by 25 percent over what would typically be possible with a fighter jet engine. The key is XA100's variable cycle that allows for adjustment to the bypass ratio and fan pressure.

"Historically, the big turbofans have a much lower bypass ratio and a much higher fan pressure ratio, and that gives you very high specific thrust," Tweedie said. "For a given technology, you can either optimize for fuel efficiency or thrust depending on what you want the aircraft to do."

Traditionally, he said, militaries have lived with low fuel efficiency in fighters because range was not a major concern during combat. That has been changing in recent years, however.

"What we've seen happen is, with where our adversaries are heading and the improvements in their standoff capabilities, nowadays range is a much more important part for ... fighters than has historically been the case," he said.

The architecture of adaptive-cycle engines such as the XA100 can adjust the bypass ratio to favor either fuel economy, such as when a fighter is in cruise, or thrust, during combat. As such, the decision no longer has to be made between the previous two extremes; the same jet can have the best of both worlds.

Beyond the primary goal of maximizing both range and thrust, the XA100 allows for improved thermal management, which is becoming more important as more powerful aircraft systems generate more and more heat and exteriors are switched from aluminum to composite skins, which Tweedie said act like a Thermos.

According to Tweedie, the improved thermal management is accomplished through two main tactics. GE used more temperature-resistant ceramic matrix composites developed for its commercial engines and added a cool third stream that acts as a heat sink inside the engine. Most modern engines have two airstreams.

Additive technology has changed the way that GE can design engines, Tweedie said.

“Really, we’re limited only by our imagination at this point in terms of the geometries and the design configurations that we’re able to implement on parts in the engine," he said.

The Adaptive Engine will take advanced materials further and contain the industry’s first rotating parts made from ceramic matrix composites, according to GE.

The new technologies mean the engines will be lighter than traditional materials and able to withstand hotter temperatures, which will improve fuel efficiency.

GE and the USAF have matured the enabling technologies and architectures of adaptive cycle engines through a series of highly-successful design and test activities in the Adaptive Versatile Engine Technology (ADVENT), Adaptive Engine Technology Development (AETD), and AETP efforts. GE’s XA100 incorporates the industry's most extensive use of low-density, heat-resistant material technologies and advanced manufacturing techniques such as ceramic matrix composites (CMC), polymer matrix composites (PMC), and additively-manufactured components. These innovations will enable the engine to meet or exceed the military's aggressive performance targets with field-proven, affordable technologies. GE’s understanding of adaptive cycle engines is based on this solid foundation of experience and rigorous test activities.

End Quote.

This link has a small animation of the two modes of operation.

LCA and its derivatives will also face the thermos effect problem since they are also composite skinned. IAF must push for adaptive cycle engines in AMCA.
GE is the ideal partner for India's AMCA engine having demonstrated cutting edge new tech for its GE9X for Boeing 777X, and its military spin-off, the XA100. Too bad the JETJWG of DTTI was wound up in July 2018. May be a SH purchase in MMRCA 2.0 clubbed along with NMRCA requirement of 57 can tilt things in India's favour by offering full ToT of F-414 and critical tech of an adaptive cycle engine like XA-100? GE is already looking at a US$25 billion business for its F-404/414 series via the LCA Mk1/Mk1A/Mk2/TEDBF/ORCA/initial AMCA squadrons.
Safran, RR (France and UK having offered help with AMCA's engines) are much behind in the tech curve- they are still putting together tech elements that will go into the engine where GE has already demo-ed its engine to USAF- of course the performance parameters are all secret.

 

[dude00720]

In 20 years..Old airforce honchos will be irrelevant in the engine program. We will have unmanned vehicles which will either be fully autonomous, or, Be run from a remote room by Geeks who control it's flight plan. So, all the people who are dishing Kaveri..ou can find your own room.

Ex-airforce guys are now driven by lobbies rather than loyalty . Thankfully the new IAF chief is from indigenous background. If supporters of foreign lobby dont get basic Mathematics of twin engine fighters vs single engine. Bhai..Join the IAS. You fit there more than in the private sector..

The Information technology industry is result of innovations pushed by US military. But, India, old school veterans are just fighting for a higher pension. In US, veterans run 7/11s and make very good money. in India, people like Panag make fun Gujjus since, they are in business, rather than holding guns. Such people give Armed forces a bad name.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Now, UK pitches for joint development of future fighter jet engine


Published February 7, 2020 | By admin SOURCE: ET

India’s plans to develop a future fighter jet engine has got strong backing from the United Kingdom (UK), with a senior minister saying that the country is ready to collaborate on the project and is looking at a government to government model to take it forward. Making a pitch for the ambitious Indian plan to achieve self reliance when it comes to combat engines – a key technology area that only top defence production nations have expertise in – the UK has said that the two countries are `natural partners’. “The UK and India have much to offer one another in defence, including research, development and training. To this end, both our governments are looking forward to collaborating on jet engine development in the future,” James Heappey, UK Minister for Defence Procurement said at the ongoing DefExpo here. The offer comes even as leading French engine manufacturer Safran has said that it is ready to transfer the full technology for jet engines that can power next generation fighter jets and has initiated talks on the matter. The UK too has considerable experience in developing jet engines with manufacturer Rolls Royce that has also supplied its products for aircraft used by the Indian armed forces like the Jaguar fighters and Hawk advanced jet trainers. Making it clear that the commitment to develop engines will be a national project, the UK minister hinted that a government to government collaboration could be in the offing. “I am delighted that projects of this nature can be achieved via government to government contracting, which will encourage collaboration, cooperation and partnerships across the UK and Indian defence industries,” the minister said. As reported by ET, India has embarked on an ambitious plan to develop an advanced multirole fighter jet, with the Air Force insisting that it should be powered with an indigenous engine and home developed weapon systems. Earlier, plans to revive the indigenous Kaveri project with the help of French technology using offsets from the Rafale deal got stalled over differences in the pricing mechanism. The upgraded Kaveri engine is not being considered for the next batch of 83 LCAs to be made in India and the jets will be powered by engines supplied by US’ General Electric but the Indian Air Force has mandated that the next generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) has to operate on Indianengines after the first two squadrons. Engines form a major part of the cost of fighter jets, with estimates showing that for a fleet of 200 LCAs in service, the cost of engines alone would be in excess of 25 billion euros over the lifecycle of the planes.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Ready to partner India, transfer technology of jet engine: Safran


Published February 6, 2020 | By admin SOURCE: ET Leading French engine manufacturer Safran has said that it is ready to transfer the full technology for jet engines that can power next generation fighter jets and has initiated talks on the matter as it is committed to staying in India for the long term. The offer gains significance as India has embarked on an ambitious plan to develop an advanced multirole fighter jet, with the Air Force insisting that it should be powered with an indigenous engine and home developed weapon systems. In his first remarks after taking over as Safran senior executive vice president, Alexandre Ziegler, who was the French Ambassador to India till last year, said exchanges have started between the two sides for a potential partnership for the next generation jets. “The development of an indigenous fighter jet engine is a key factor for strategic autonomy. If India chooses to cooperate with France in this field, we will be delighted and honoured to make our contribution. We are ready to propose a full transfer of technology and know-how. That is the strength of our partnership,” the senior executive told ET. The French manufacturer is already a partner in major Indian space projects and helicopter engines, besides being a significant supplier of systems for the Rafale fighter jets ordered for the Air Force. “Our technologies make France one of the four countries in the world to master the complete development of a fighter jet engine. And if India needs us on this particularly strategic field, we will be there. Safran is definitely ready for a partnership with India, with the full support of the French government. Exchanges on this subject have already begun,” Ziegler said. The comments come even as France has made fresh efforts to revive plans to develop the indigenous Kaveri jet engine as part of the Rafale offsets deal, with a briefing for the project made to Defence Minister Rajnath Singh during his visit to Paris in October. As reported by ET, plans to revive the indigenous Kaveri project with the help of French technology stalled over differences in the pricing mechanism for the deal. The upgraded Kaveri engine is not being considered for the next batch of 83 LCAs to be made in India and the jets will be powered by engines supplied by US’ General Electric but the Indian Air Force has mandated that the next generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) has to operate on Indian engines after the first two squadrons. Engines form a major part of the cost of fighter jets, with estimates showing that for a fleet of 200 LCAs in service, the cost of engines alone would be in excess of 25 billion euros over the lifecycle of the planes. On its plans to utilise the offsets from the Rafale contract, Zeigler said Safram is committed to achieving the 50% offset clause with its Indian partners. “The Group’s purchases from Indian companies have grown considerably and now reach dozens of millions of euros each year. In addition, we have great ambitions in terms of Make in India and industrial investments in India, whether in production, like we are already doing in Bengaluru and Hyderabad, or in aeronautics MRO,” he said.

............................

Now, UK pitches for joint development of future fighter jet engine


Published February 7, 2020 | By admin SOURCE: ET

India’s plans to develop a future fighter jet engine has got strong backing from the United Kingdom (UK), with a senior minister saying that the country is ready to collaborate on the project and is looking at a government to government model to take it forward. Making a pitch for the ambitious Indian plan to achieve self reliance when it comes to combat engines – a key technology area that only top defence production nations have expertise in – the UK has said that the two countries are `natural partners’. “The UK and India have much to offer one another in defence, including research, development and training. To this end, both our governments are looking forward to collaborating on jet engine development in the future,” James Heappey, UK Minister for Defence Procurement said at the ongoing DefExpo here. The offer comes even as leading French engine manufacturer Safran has said that it is ready to transfer the full technology for jet engines that can power next generation fighter jets and has initiated talks on the matter. The UK too has considerable experience in developing jet engines with manufacturer Rolls Royce that has also supplied its products for aircraft used by the Indian armed forces like the Jaguar fighters and Hawk advanced jet trainers. Making it clear that the commitment to develop engines will be a national project, the UK minister hinted that a government to government collaboration could be in the offing. “I am delighted that projects of this nature can be achieved via government to government contracting, which will encourage collaboration, cooperation and partnerships across the UK and Indian defence industries,” the minister said. As reported by ET, India has embarked on an ambitious plan to develop an advanced multirole fighter jet, with the Air Force insisting that it should be powered with an indigenous engine and home developed weapon systems. Earlier, plans to revive the indigenous Kaveri project with the help of French technology using offsets from the Rafale deal got stalled over differences in the pricing mechanism. The upgraded Kaveri engine is not being considered for the next batch of 83 LCAs to be made in India and the jets will be powered by engines supplied by US’ General Electric but the Indian Air Force has mandated that the next generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) has to operate on Indianengines after the first two squadrons. Engines form a major part of the cost of fighter jets, with estimates showing that for a fleet of 200 LCAs in service, the cost of engines alone would be in excess of 25 billion euros over the lifecycle of the planes.

.............................

 

[abhay rajput]

it additionally also acts as a heat sink for better thermal management.

For AMCA we have to target adaptive cycle engines if Safran or RR are willing to hand hold. GE has already tested its XA 100

The problem the Americans are trying to address is the relatively short unrefueled range of a bit more than 600 nautical miles with the current P & W F-135. Enter GE with its XA100 adaptive engine (the battle is still far from over with P & W trying to make F-135 adaptive).

Quoting from here & here -

the XA100 ramps up engine thrust by 10 percent while simultaneously improving fuel efficiency by 25 percent over what would typically be possible with a fighter jet engine. The key is XA100's variable cycle that allows for adjustment to the bypass ratio and fan pressure.

"Historically, the big turbofans have a much lower bypass ratio and a much higher fan pressure ratio, and that gives you very high specific thrust," Tweedie said. "For a given technology, you can either optimize for fuel efficiency or thrust depending on what you want the aircraft to do."

Traditionally, he said, militaries have lived with low fuel efficiency in fighters because range was not a major concern during combat. That has been changing in recent years, however.

"What we've seen happen is, with where our adversaries are heading and the improvements in their standoff capabilities, nowadays range is a much more important part for ... fighters than has historically been the case," he said.

The architecture of adaptive-cycle engines such as the XA100 can adjust the bypass ratio to favor either fuel economy, such as when a fighter is in cruise, or thrust, during combat. As such, the decision no longer has to be made between the previous two extremes; the same jet can have the best of both worlds.

Beyond the primary goal of maximizing both range and thrust, the XA100 allows for improved thermal management, which is becoming more important as more powerful aircraft systems generate more and more heat and exteriors are switched from aluminum to composite skins, which Tweedie said act like a Thermos.

According to Tweedie, the improved thermal management is accomplished through two main tactics. GE used more temperature-resistant ceramic matrix composites developed for its commercial engines and added a cool third stream that acts as a heat sink inside the engine. Most modern engines have two airstreams.

Additive technology has changed the way that GE can design engines, Tweedie said.

“Really, we’re limited only by our imagination at this point in terms of the geometries and the design configurations that we’re able to implement on parts in the engine," he said.

The Adaptive Engine will take advanced materials further and contain the industry’s first rotating parts made from ceramic matrix composites, according to GE.

The new technologies mean the engines will be lighter than traditional materials and able to withstand hotter temperatures, which will improve fuel efficiency.

GE and the USAF have matured the enabling technologies and architectures of adaptive cycle engines through a series of highly-successful design and test activities in the Adaptive Versatile Engine Technology (ADVENT), Adaptive Engine Technology Development (AETD), and AETP efforts. GE’s XA100 incorporates the industry's most extensive use of low-density, heat-resistant material technologies and advanced manufacturing techniques such as ceramic matrix composites (CMC), polymer matrix composites (PMC), and additively-manufactured components. These innovations will enable the engine to meet or exceed the military's aggressive performance targets with field-proven, affordable technologies. GE’s understanding of adaptive cycle engines is based on this solid foundation of experience and rigorous test activities.

End Quote.

This link has a small animation of the two modes of operation.

LCA and its derivatives will also face the thermos effect problem since they are also composite skinned. IAF must push for adaptive cycle engines in AMCA.
GE is the ideal partner for India's AMCA engine having demonstrated cutting edge new tech for its GE9X for Boeing 777X, and its military spin-off, the XA100. Too bad the JETJWG of DTTI was wound up in July 2018. May be a SH purchase in MMRCA 2.0 clubbed along with NMRCA requirement of 57 can tilt things in India's favour by offering full ToT of F-414 and critical tech of an adaptive cycle engine like XA-100? GE is already looking at a US$25 billion business for its F-404/414 series via the LCA Mk1/Mk1A/Mk2/TEDBF/ORCA/initial AMCA squadrons.
Safran, RR (France and UK having offered help with AMCA's engines) are much behind in the tech curve- they are still putting together tech elements that will go into the engine where GE has already demo-ed its engine to USAF- of course the performance parameters are all secret.

Assumption is the mother of all failures.. Americans have clearly denied for any tot ..

 

[dude00720]

Now, UK pitches for joint development of future fighter jet engine

This might not be bad, since, Rolls-Royce competed for the F135 engine in the past in partnership with GE. That was a massive 40k lbf aka 177KN single engine thrust. But, we have to see, how they partner.

 

[abhay rajput]

I have been telling just give RR /SAFRAN (since Americans have refused for tot) money.. give them as much money as they want and they will give you full tot.. we have idiots in MOD , believe me our first indigenous engine is not gonna come up until 2-3 decades...
If we can get m88 or rr(much Better) we can always increase its thrust to our requirements.. MONEY IS NOT THE PROBLEM TIME IS..

 

[dude00720]

I have been telling just give RR /SAFRAN (since Americans have refused for tot) money.. give them as much money as they want and they will give you full tot.. we have idiots in MOD , believe me our first indigenous engine is not gonna come up until 2-3 decades...
If we can get m88 or rr(much Better) we can always increase its thrust to our requirements.. MONEY IS NOT THE PROBLEM TIME IS..

Abhay - Safran is doing blackbox of core. Not full ToT.

 

[MonaLazy]

Americans have refused for tot.

Never say never.. We are talking about MMRCA 2.0 worth about US$ 20 billion, GE F-404/414 for 40x LCA Mk1, 83x Mk1A, 200x MWF, 100+x TEDBF/ORCA, 2 sqdns of AMCA US $ 40 billion, throw in the NMRCA which is another US$ 15 billion. Believe we can have American senators falling over themselves to amend their restrictive tech export rules for a pie worth US$ 75 billion+ in just fighter tech- there are so many more American platforms we are buying so total Mil trade is much much more. America is all about money, isn't it? For so much money we can press them for full ToT on F-414 and XA-100.

Trump keeps highlighting the trade imbalance as one of the irritants in the US-India relationship and wants India to buy more military hardware. We should get talking. It was US which helped China with its great leap forward in the 70s so they leapfrogged India and pretty much everyone else in the world to become the global factory. We need Uncle Sam too. Modiji are you listening?

Safran has created some tech with GE via CFM international but that was the mid 70s. We can adopt that model for cooperation with US- for now the M88 is F404 level engine tech - Kaveri is already there so what can the French offer? For the FCAS (5th gen program) they are in an engine partnership with the German MTU- they won't even own the entire engine tech for the forthcoming Franco-German adaptive cycle engine.

Similarly RR is also in the early stages of their adaptive cycle engine for the Tempest. Only GE is ready with the solution today- we may see a new breed of American fighters or even a re-engined F-35 emerge around the mid 2020's based on the XA-100.

 

[abhay rajput]

Abhay - Safran is doing blackbox of core. Not full ToT.

Bro have you watched the presentation given by Safran in October when ninda turtle visited there.. someone was there who told me this.. know and know why .. and right now only they have stated about full tot.. Royce royal is saying for co development, in this case it's not full tot .
As far Americans they have completed denied..

 

[asianobserve]

This might not be bad, since, Rolls-Royce competed for the F135 engine in the past in partnership with GE. That was a massive 40k lbf aka 177KN single engine thrust. But, we have to see, how they partner.

No country or company will sell their cutting edge jet engine tech. RR is looking for buyer of their engines not competition.

India just have to learn to evolve from older tech until it's able to learn enough to leapfrog 1 or 2 gens.