Kaveri Engine

[smestarz]

Because LCA was supposed to replace Mig-21 (a single engine jet) from the beginning. At the time, there was no need of a pure twin-engine figher fleet to fight Pakistan. Nobody could foresee the rise of China.

Its true that Tejas was built to replace MiG-21, but by then and now there are big changes also we were limited by our vision also. MiG-21 were good, but one of the best interceptors of the world was F-5 Tiger, these were reliable due to Twin engines.They were developed with ease of repair and maintenance in Mind. The engines used in F-5 were two small engines these were eventually replaced by F-16, but many countries still fly F-5.
I would go for twin engine planes because of better reliability.
IAF also failed to see MiG-29 as an MRCA and was used only as air superiority plane, now we are using it as MRCA.

Kaveri is overwieghted and underpower as a twin engine.

Kaveri is overweight and underpowered, but when we use planes with this, we are getting numbers, and at the same time the engine development is continued. As of now, we are not using Kaveri, thus its looking as an entire loss, but where as its a development that are even considering to utilise.

 

[abhay rajput]

Even after 30 years, we haven't learnt anything , I am sorry babus/IAS officers haven't learn anything.. you can spend 1 billion dollars for next 20 years even then you will not have the engine.. just see how much money western countries have spent.. minimum 10 billion dollars and target should be 5 years. Otherwise keep dreaming and in the end we will still use foreign engine...

 

[Assassin 2.0]

The place were we failed is we should have kept in mind that Kaveri could have required a lil extra space and for installation. Many countries use Foreign made engines till the time they are developing their own engine and then they shift towards indigenous one's. We should have designed tejas around kaveri rather than around GE-404.

 

[Bleh]

Over weight can be debated.

Kaveri is 350 kg heavier than M88... Both does around 50-75kN.

 

[fire starter]

Kaveri is 350 kg heavier than M88... Both does around 50-75kN.

kaveri weight can be brought down by using scb since it weighs 1/2 than dsb .

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Kaveri is 350 kg heavier than M88... Both does around 50-75kN.

Kaveri can be modified for 81KN too.

 

[Bleh]

Kaveri can be modified for 81KN too.

Not efficiently, as of now..........

 

[abhay rajput]

Kaveri can be modified for 81KN too.

We have problems with coatings and blades which can not produce sufficient thrust. We need single crystalline blades for that and I Believe coating is being developed but without advance manufacturing techniques we will always lack in metallurgy

 

[no smoking]

We should have designed tejas around kaveri rather than around GE-404.

Well, the LCA was designed around kaveri from beginning. F404 was only chosed to fly prototype before kaveri was ready. The problems are: both failed to meet original deadline and both are much heavier than original target.

 

[Deathstar]

Well, the LCA was designed around kaveri from beginning. F404 was only chosed to fly prototype before kaveri was ready. The problems are: both failed to meet original deadline and both are much heavier than original target.

Good experience none the less....

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Well, the LCA was designed around kaveri from beginning. F404 was only chosed to fly prototype before kaveri was ready. The problems are: both failed to meet original deadline and both are much heavier than original target.

Nop not true...........
IAF never build the Tejas around Kaveri and in 2008 eventually they benchmark kaveri against EJ-2000 and other engines of GE-404 category.

 

[AnantS]

Nop not true...........
IAF never build the Tejas around Kaveri and in 2008 eventually they benchmark kaveri against EJ-2000 and other engines of GE-404 category.

actually Tejas TD were designed to have Kaveri.

 

[dude00720]

Bottomline is, Goalposts have been consistently changed by airforce. Honestly, you dont build an industry by behaving this way. Also, i should be said, that, GTRE could have done better.

Kaveri has developed wet thrust of 76 KN.

Did this wet thrust have the screeching problem ?

 

[IndianHawk]

Even after 30 years, we haven't learnt anything , I am sorry babus/IAS officers haven't learn anything.. you can spend 1 billion dollars for next 20 years even then you will not have the engine.. just see how much money western countries have spent.. minimum 10 billion dollars and target should be 5 years. Otherwise keep dreaming and in the end we will still use foreign engine...

On PPP western 10 billion should be 2-3 billion for us.

 

[IndianHawk]

Well, the LCA was designed around kaveri from beginning. F404 was only chosed to fly prototype before kaveri was ready. The problems are: both failed to meet original deadline and both are much heavier than original target.

At least we don't push immature jets into service like Chinese navy whose pathetic su33 copy can't stop crashing.

 

[IndianHawk]

Bottomline is, Goalposts have been consistently changed by airforce. Honestly, you dont build an industry by behaving this way. Also, i should be said, that, GTRE could have done better.

Did this wet thrust have the screeching problem ?

Screeching is a problem as far as I know. Don't know the present status. But screeching is solvable issue.

 

[wraith96]

are betichod pichle 30 saal se yahi sun raha hu kuch nahi hone waala phir se chutiya kaat rahe hai . mere ek baat samaj nahi aati ki hum log kyo itne bade gandu hai aur bina dimag ke baate aur kam karte hai. majak bana ke rakh diya hai MC

Bhai hum indians hai...jab tak laat nahi padti ya koi hamari buri tarah beijjati nahi kar deta tab tak hamara dimaag nahi khulta...engine banega bas koi abhi jhannate daar thappad maar de...jaise china north east kabja kar le...ya US GE engine dene se mana karde tab hosh ayega tab jaldi jaldi decision le lenge....abhi to sunne me aa rha hai pakustan ko UD, france, germany, japan , UK ka samarthan mila gai FATF me...grey list se bahar aa jayeaga pakistan....Modi ji khoob chaat rhe the trump ki...

 

[dude00720]

At least we don't push immature jets into service like Chinese navy whose pathetic su33 copy can't stop crashing.

I dont think , that is a plus point. You cant innovate without an experimental process

 

[IndianHawk]

I dont think , that is a plus point. You cant innovate without an experimental process

Chinese copied a Russian design and pushed it in service despite flaws. They could have tested more and waited but no impressing the world with false progress was more important .

 

[Nietzche_Z]

Chinese copied a Russian design and pushed it in service despite flaws. They could have tested more and waited but no impressing the world with false progress was more important .

True that the chinese or any other totalitarian govts have a need to impress the world and their own people as its a source of their legitimacy. But there is something to be said about taking ownership of your own products , using it and improving it. Why has India which has used Russian and Soviet aircraft for decades not used the Russian engines which were available and would not be impacted as much by unpredictable western sanctions in the LCA? Why did we use US GE engines versus Russian AL31 (Su27/30) or RD33/93(Mig 29) or even Mig 21 engines in the LCA? Surely if the IAF wanted a replacement for the Mig 21 in the form of the LCA then the engine of the Mig 21 could have been a starting point for iterative development. If tomorrow the US sanctions us that would be the end of the LCAs flying today and in the future if we dont rengine with the kaveri (even a flawed one with the snecma M88 core). The chinese have basically done the same in the JF 17 / FC1 with the Mig 29's engines. We could have learnt from those engine designs and made our own designs and improved them like the chinese with their WS series. Why didnt we try to get tech transfer from Russia like the Chinese do regularly? If the Russians can transfer / help in more sensitive areas like SSN/SSBN and naval nuclear reactors or missile tech surely they would have less hesitation in helping here. Russian gear may not be upto western standards but when we have no engines or know how or know why then it beggars belief why we didnt do that. Lets not rundown the Chinese or the Russians both are a very practical people and we have much to learn from them.