Kaveri Engine

[Assassin 2.0]

KAVERI UPDATE
DRDO chief

Is development of an indigenous fighter jet engine a priority?
Yes, it’s a priority for strategic autonomy. The development of an indigenous jet engine through the Kaveri programme has boosted the know-how and industrial ecosystem in the country. Presently, we are working on the flagship programme to develop an Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft. It requires an advanced 110kN thrust class engine. We will involve academia, industry and defence PSUs to develop this high-thrust engine. We are open to international collaboration.

 

[Raju Seth]

DRDO CHIEF ON KAVERI.

We have moved beyond Kaveri engine in terms of power, technology and utility. We intend to develop our own engines for fighter aircrafts; it could be with or without collaboration. Development of such critical technology is not about economics or offsets but about building technological capability in the country.

KAVERI UPDATE
DRDO chief

Is development of an indigenous fighter jet engine a priority?
Yes, it’s a priority for strategic autonomy. The development of an indigenous jet engine through the Kaveri programme has boosted the know-how and industrial ecosystem in the country. Presently, we are working on the flagship programme to develop an Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft. It requires an advanced 110kN thrust class engine. We will involve academia, industry and defence PSUs to develop this high-thrust engine. We are open to international collaboration.

[/QUOTE]

WHAT DO WE CONCLUDE:
1. kaveri program has been shutdown officially
2. No follow up program is there,k10 or k9 or gas marine etc
3. We will involve academia, industry .... they havent planned anything yet
4. We are open to international collaboration....they want someone to build engine & they should stamp there name on it

DRDO at its best

 

[Vilander]

The first step should be to make engine for Tejas at home, for that first create that lower thrust engine, when they have not been able to develop a lower thrust engine how will they directly develop a much higher thrust engine?

 

[Assassin 2.0]

kaveri program has been shutdown officially
2. No follow up program is there,k10 or k9 or gas marine etc

Wrong.
Kaveri is very much alive. Requirement is of building 110-120KN engine for AMCA is their work is going on. DRDO is totally committed towards Kaveri. If their is less information in public domain that doesn't mean work is not going on.

We are open to international collaboration....they want someone to build engine & they should stamp there name on it

What's wrong in being open to foreign collaboration? We have strategic partnership with France Russia US. If they can provide some help in solving the issues of hot section then it's Good. ( these countries constantly get deals of billions $ from india.)
If DRDO would have wanted just their stamp made engine then they could have already build one on the M-88 core which france is offering but they rejected it.
( core of kaveri is working alright and it's pretty advanced 3 fan engine it's the hot section issue. Creek which was getting created is already solved with the help of saffron)

DRDO at its best

umm? DRDO Created a jet engine under just 900 million $ they gained huge technical knowledge about blades etc. But the money which we are spending is just peanuts you cannot expect to get F-22 type engine is just under 900 mill. Chinese are spending more than 100 billion in jet engine development (btw).

What about infrastructure? Drdo doesn't even have a test machines test aircraft etc they have to run around the globe just to test kaveri engine sometimes Russia sometimes france.
DRDO asked for some cheap second hand mig-29 for flight testing even when there are thousand of cheap mig-29 in second hand market. But nothing was provided.

( kaveri will be developed as it's a strategic need. There is serious push from IAF and government. Amca will be powered initially from GE and then it will be switched to k-9 as evey jet uses more than 3-5 engines In It's life time)

 

[Assassin 2.0]

The first step should be to make engine for Tejas at home, for that first create that lower thrust engine, when they have not been able to develop a lower thrust engine how will they directly develop a much higher thrust engine?

It more depends on the capabilities of metallurgy rather than having a small thrust or higher thrust engine. crystal blades ( which is one of the most well kept secret of this era) are the key.
India is already working on NATO level designed and blades our blades are of dual pass cooling. 3 fan and 4 stage design makes kaveri lighter and perfect fit for AMCA when it's developed.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

Somebody asked about tejas turn rate here it is.
It is about the aircraft from Bahrain airshow and Delhi defense review.
And these planes were LSP version.
At Bahrain, the Mk1 also showcased an instantaneous turn rate (ITR) of near 30 degrees per second and a sustained turn rate (STR) of between 15 to 16 degrees per second. A minimum radius turn of 350 metres (m) radius was also exhibited. All of these are extremely respectable numbers for air to air (A2A) combat roles.................................................................
More changes or performance improvements would have occurred untill now.
So, take this with doubt in mind.

 

[Raju Seth]

Wrong.
Kaveri is very much alive. Requirement is of building 110-120KN engine for AMCA is their work is going on. DRDO is totally committed towards Kaveri. If their is less information in public domain that doesn't mean work is not going on.



What's wrong in being open to foreign collaboration? We have strategic partnership with France Russia US. If they can provide some help in solving the issues of hot section then it's Good. ( these countries constantly get deals of billions $ from india.)
If DRDO would have wanted just their stamp made engine then they could have already build one on the M-88 core which france is offering but they rejected it.
( core of kaveri is working alright and it's pretty advanced 3 fan engine it's the hot section issue. Creek which was getting created is already solved with the help of saffron)

umm? DRDO Created a jet engine under just 900 million $ they gained huge technical knowledge about blades etc. But the money which we are spending is just peanuts you cannot expect to get F-22 type engine is just under 900 mill. Chinese are spending more than 100 billion in jet engine development (btw).

What about infrastructure? Drdo doesn't even have a test machines test aircraft etc they have to run around the globe just to test kaveri engine sometimes Russia sometimes france.
DRDO asked for some cheap second hand mig-29 for flight testing even when there are thousand of cheap mig-29 in second hand market. But nothing was provided.

( kaveri will be developed as it's a strategic need. There is serious push from IAF and government. Amca will be powered initially from GE and then it will be switched to k-9 as evey jet uses more than 3-5 engines In It's life time)

You are being sympathetic to DRDO
Thanks for the facts but as a organisation DRDO hasnt being pulled up socks to aeronautics

Never heard of mig29 thing & if they dont have machines,they should develop necessary infra first..it would assist all future projects
Crystal blade development is tough ,no doubt about that but its been years now ,and if you arent able to develop 90kn engine ,how can u assure india with 110kn jet engine..but then drdo is the only organisation so we have to wait for them when they will make one.


You are saying what's wrong with foreign collab,well you yourself is saying crystal blade tech is secret ,so even by giving one no one will provide it & if core is working what are we paying for...it would be better if someone just gives them engine(like shakti engine on dhruv)

 

[south block]

You are being sympathetic to DRDO
Thanks for the facts but as a organisation DRDO hasnt being pulled up socks to aeronautics

Never heard of mig29 thing & if they dont have machines,they should develop necessary infra first..it would assist all future projects
Crystal blade development is tough ,no doubt about that but its been years now ,and if you arent able to develop 90kn engine ,how can u assure india with 110kn jet engine..but then drdo is the only organisation so we have to wait for them when they will make one.


You are saying what's wrong with foreign collab,well you yourself is saying crystal blade tech is secret ,so even by giving one no one will provide it & if core is working what are we paying for...it would be better if someone just gives them engine(like shakti engine on dhruv)

may be indian Cheetos sellers can build us technology --- after all they are top experts on forums, twitter & YouTube about how to screw drive & pass foreign maal as their own ---- Maybe DRDO need to hire some Raju from Pvt sector to share his immense knowledge on how R&D should be done

 

[Assassin 2.0]

You are being sympathetic to DRDO
Thanks for the facts but as a organisation DRDO hasnt being pulled up socks to aeronautics

I'm not sympathetic. But matter of reality is DRDO have done pretty commendable work in past and continues to do in future too. And they have done some pathetic work too. Bit reality is DRDO have some of the most brightest minds of india. The work DRDO did on development of Hypersonic is great.

Never heard of mig29 thing & if they dont have machines,they should develop necessary infra first..it would assist all future projects

Money is required for that DRDO doesn't have some note chap n Wali machine.
And MiG-29 demand is from 2005. And infrastructure demand is from the day this project was started.

Crystal blade development is tough ,no doubt about that but its been years now ,and if you arent able to develop 90kn engine ,how can u assure india with 110kn jet engine..but then drdo is the only organisation so we have to wait for them when they will make one

If you have a metallurgy capabilities to create a strong core then you can modify it to get more output M-88 can core can produce more output and F-404 which used to create 71kn which was transformed into F-414 ( but used the same core) created 100KN.

You are saying what's wrong with foreign collab,well you yourself is saying crystal blade tech is secret ,so even by giving one no one will provide it & if core is working what are we paying for.

We are paying for heating issues. DRDO wants to solve heating issues. Initial assessments by the French company show that 25-30% more work is needed for the Kaveri engine to be combat-worthy. But they are asking huge amount for it ( talks for negotiations are going.)
Crystal blade technology we already have that and final touches and more development is going on.

would be better if someone just gives them engine(like shakti engine on dhruv)

France US UK Russia have developed these capabilities after spending tons of resources and have experience of more than 100 years this thing is their crown jewel. No one in universe will give you this technology.

 

[south block]

I'm not sympathetic. But matter of reality is DRDO have done pretty commendable work in past and continues to do in future too. And they have done some pathetic work too. Bit reality is DRDO have some of the most brightest minds of india. The work DRDO did on development of Hypersonic is great.


Money is required for that DRDO doesn't have some note chap n Wali machine.
And MiG-29 demand is from 2005. And infrastructure demand is from the day this project was started.


If you have a metallurgy capabilities to create a strong core then you can modify it to get more output M-88 can core can produce more output and F-404 which used to create 71kn which was transformed into F-414 ( but used the same core) created 100KN.


We are paying for heating issues. DRDO wants to solve heating issues. Initial assessments by the French company show that 25-30% more work is needed for the Kaveri engine to be combat-worthy. But they are asking huge amount for it ( talks for negotiations are going.)
Crystal blade technology we already have that and final touches and more development is going on.



France US UK Russia have developed these capabilities after spending tons of resources and have experience of more than 100 years this thing is their crown jewel. No one in universe will give you this technology.

DRDO has done all the work --- you give it to private cronies they will loot this country dry just like they are doing it forever. only thing you will get is foreign screw drive maal with stamp of indigenization.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

DRDO has done all the work --- you give it to private cronies they will loot this country dry just like they are doing it forever. only thing you will get is foreign screw drive maal with stamp of indigenization.

Our comiiii nibba south block. Private - public partnership is important for development of this country. Go back few pages I have posted how DRDO build large blades are getting used in private sector. If india wants to come into commercial aircraft market then private sector is required.

 

[south block]

Go back few pages I have posted how DRDO build large blades are getting used in private sector.

You prove me right you nibba :biggrin2:

 

[Holy Triad]

DRDO has done all the work --- you give it to private cronies they will loot this country dry just like they are doing it forever. only thing you will get is foreign screw drive maal with stamp of indigenization.

You mean higher than what ofb,hal charging with our military

 

[south block]

You mean bigger than what ofb,hal charging with our military

when chetoos sellers can achieve even half of what these organisations have achieved than they can give gyaan ---- Until than they should keep themselves busy manipulating stock market or looting poor Indians ---- underpaying their workers or passing foreign assembled maal as their own.

 

[Deathstar]

when chetoos sellers can achieve even half of what these organisations have achieved than they can give gyaan ---- Until than they should keep themselves busy manipulating stock market or looting poor Indians ---- underpaying their workers or passing foreign assembled maal as their own.

All top defence compaies are private. Your DRDO , HAL doesnt even feature. HAL buys engines from Safran for its Helis. We know soldier killing rifle called Insas. Shitty maintenance record of HAL

 

[Suryavanshi]

@south block teri problem kya he bencho
Ya toh tikh se debate kar le ya phit tikh se shitpost.
Koi ek kam tikh se kar Sarkari Kamchor

 

[Assassin 2.0]

UPDATE..
JAI HO.

Performance of AL-55
Maximum thrust: 1,760 kgf (17.3 kN; 3,900 lbf) (take-off thrust)
Overall pressure ratio: 17.5
Bypass ratio: 0.515
Air mass flow: 28.5 kg/s

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Any idea???? Is it copy of al155 or new... Or our own htfe

I hope it's build on the basis of our indigenous design.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Explained: Why the AMCA program requires the most powerful engine in its segment.

After the Indian Air force (IAF) agreed to induct AMCA Mk1 with older Ge’s F414-INS6 engines with a combined thrust of 196 kN Thrust class instead of the required combined 220 kN Thrust class, IAF officials to idrw.org have confirmed that breather given to the Mk1 program will allow time for finding a right partner joint venture partner to develop a customized engine for the AMCA program. India has been having parallel talks with the United States and France for co-development of a new engine which can develop a 110 kN Thrust class engine suitable to operate in hot-humid climate conditions of India where the performance of engines is always below par and most of the time while operating from hot-humid conditions where there is noted drop of at least 10kN thrust. In the 25-tonne class segment, with combined 220 kN Thrust class of engines, Thrust-to-weight ratio (TWR) of the AMCA will be excellent and might seem overkill if it was a 4.5th generation fighter aircraft but AMCA being a stealth aircraft will require to have an engine that is not over-stressed and doesn’t leave too much heat also that it can supercruise over Mach 1 so that it doesn’t affect its stealth characters while being in stealth mode. IAF and ADA worked on many scenarios and engine thrust requirement and after careful deliberations, it was decided to have the most powerful engine in the segment of any 5th generation program which falls in the 25-tonne class segment to meet operational requirements of IAF and India’s hot-humid conditions. Due to powerful engines, AMCA will carry nearly 6.5 tonne of Internal fuels which is nearly 1.8 tonnes more than what Dassault Rafale can carry internally. Additional fuel will come in handy if it is mated with the right engine will conservative fuel burn rate that can help AMCA has a Combat radius close to 2000 kms which will allow pilots to remain in the air for longer in Air combat duties and also give deeper reach when to be used in air to ground missions without need for mid-air refuellers which usually are easy to detect will give away position of the stealth fighters when they are refueling. The new engine when developed will replace the older engine on the Mk1 variant of AMCA and plans are to even replace them on MWF-Mk2 and LCA-Tejas Mk1A when they are needed for an engine change. Each aircraft approximately requires 3.5 times engine change over its air frame flight hours which lasts for 30-40 years so every 10 years LCA-Tejas Mk1A and MWF-Mk2 will require newer engines and when they are due to for new engine they will be swapped with more powerful engines to maintain the domestic production of the new engine and also to lower cost of production. For engine operations, engines will be getting additional safety measures and minor adjustments in the fuel burn rate so that combat ranges are not affected by powerful engines, this will also help aircraft when in Mid-Life Upgrade (MLU) it tends to gain weight due to enhancement of capabilities

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Will Americans offer a new engine and new Partner to power India’s AMCA program?

Earlier this year India and the United States have suspended cooperation on jet engine technology under the Defense Technology and Trade Initiative (DTTI) due to lack of progress of the joint working group which failed to make any progress due to stiff US export controls and General Electric which is not keen on transfer of its core proprietary technology to India. General Electric is pushing for joint venture company, under the local license agreement allow the new JV to built and service derivative of the F-414 engines which were proposed to be used as a base to develop a new engine to power India’s 5th generation AMCA Stealth program, but minus its core technology which was sole reason why no agreement arrived yet, defense analysts close to idrw.org say that even if the US government agrees to loosen its export control laws it simply can’t force a private engine manufacture to agree to its terms. US companies have walked away from many such similar deals where the host country asked for core technology transfer recently, many countries have close military cooperation’s with the United States government and have been buying US military hardware like fighter jets from the very beginning yet they faced disappointment. General Electric is an American aerospace giant that has a majority of share in military-grade aero engine market and will do its best to protect its core proprietary technology over any possible lucrative deal from India. lack of headway from 2015 was the reason why Engine JWGs were dismantled, but Americans have promised to identify a new engine that can be offered to India more likely from another aero engine manufacture. General Electric rivals like Pratt & Whitney could be the most likely candidate for the development of JV company with India to develop a new engine to meet the power requirements of India’s AMCA program. Americans know what core technology India wants and it will be interesting to see if Pratt & Whitney is ready to go that extra mile. Before the process for the formation of the new joint working group begins, India has asked the United States to identify a new engine and manufactures in 2020 so that the next rounds of talks can be initiated. India’s set to place orders for 83 LCA-Tejas Mk1A fighter jet which will be powered by GE’s F404-GE-IN20 after-burning engines for which fresh orders are likely. HAL already has received 41 F404-GE-IN20 engines from GE which will power the first 40 aircraft ordered by IAF in Mk1 configuration, it is likely more then 90-100 new engines will be ordered in the next batch for the Mk1A program. GE already has won orders for supply of 99 larger GE-F414IN engines to be used to power the MWF-Mk2 program under which IAF is keen to order around 108 units. GE-F414IN will also be used to power the first batch of five prototypes of AMCA and also 36 jets in Mk1 configuration. Navy’s Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF) program will also see the use of GE-F414IN engines which means the additional order of another 100 engines. Till now, GE has no local facility in India where engines can be overhauled nor are they license manufactured in India. India ships these engines to GE Aviation factory in the United States when there are due to major overhaul or in cases it suffers from some core damage. Spares and service technician training by GE has been excellent and no major issues with engine have been reported nor any downtime has been faced by the operator. India also has received counter-offers to develop a new engine from French Safran and British Rolls Royce