Kaveri Engine

[Aaj ka hero]

A good understanding of Kaveri problems.

The problem is...... Safran said that we have problem with kabini core (if I am not wrong) that's why they said we can have m-88 core.
But according to us thermal coating around afterburner section is the main problem.
And DRDO is trying to solve this problem which will finally make this engine reach it's final desired thrust of 90kn.
I WANT TO ASK
What I wrote , is it right?
Correct me if I was wrong.
Also, the bypass air around core does not mix with core air in engine afterburner section, am I right?

 

[Shekhar Singh]

I think you meant to say - It will NOT be easy to fit kaveri into Rafale as there is huge weight difference between M88 and kaveri

I have mentioned how F404 was fit into Rafale during development trials as M88 engine was not yet ready. Kaveri weighs similar to F404. So, I see no issue

Hmmm, "NOT" missed in typing. Thanks for correction.

 

[Enquirer]

Can anyone help decode what DRDO dude meant to say here in his interview?
Is he suggesting that Tejas II Air Force will use the current F404? If he's suggesting the current one in design is F414, then is the Naval version using a different engine? I hope he was able to frame the sentence better!

What is the progress on Tejas II?

Tejas II is progressing well. The design phase has been completed. As far as the engine is concerned, the user is satisfied with the present one used and so we will go with the same. For the Indian Navy, we are working on a separate programme as the requirements are different. The design phase for Mark II Navy is over and it will certainly meet all their requirements.

 

[uoftotaku]

Can anyone help decode what DRDO dude meant to say here in his interview?
Is he suggesting that Tejas II Air Force will use the current F404? If he's suggesting the current one in design is F414, then is the Naval version using a different engine? I hope he was able to frame the sentence better!

What is the progress on Tejas II?

Tejas II is progressing well. The design phase has been completed. As far as the engine is concerned, the user is satisfied with the present one used and so we will go with the same. For the Indian Navy, we are working on a separate programme as the requirements are different. The design phase for Mark II Navy is over and it will certainly meet all their requirements.

Means IAF has no requirement or desire to wait till Kaveri is ready. They will continue to use F404/414

 

[Kyubi]

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/no-in...-between-drdo-safran-collapse-over-high-costs

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[Tridev123]

Sad state of affairs regarding Kaveri turbofan engine. I think we should not depend on others to pull our chestnuts out of the fire. We need to emulate China. They failed to successfully produce a reliable jet engine in the first attempt but did not give up. Now they have budgeted a massive 40 billion us dollar for a fresh attempt to make a reliable turbofan jet engine. We may not be able to match them in resources but the government needs to provide fresh budgetary support to GTRE. Also all our efforts should not be concentrated in only one institution. Large well run companies like L&T, Tatas, Godrej & Boyce etc with sufficient engineering skills should be encouraged to set up gas turbine research centres. Having multiple players in fields like aero engines increases healthy competition and progress. Our government needs to hand hold private companies to make a start in developing aero engines. In the US they have multiple aero engine manufacturers like Prat & Whitney, General Electric etc. We may not succeed immediately but perhaps in 10 years time, India will have a truly indigenous jet engine.

 

[Holy Triad]

Kaveri engine : DRDO finds cost high; Safran struggling to fulfil its €580-million offsets obligation.




The plan to develop the indigenous Kaveri fighter jet engine as part of the Rafale offsets deal with the help of French technology is believed to have fallen through after the Indian side found the pricing prohibitive. At least three people, who were part of the discussions, told ET that the project is now as good as over. The engine was supposed to power the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) as well as future fighter jets. The talks with French engine manufacturer Safran, which makes the engines and electronics for the Rafale fighters, seem to have hit a roadblock after it emerged in detailed studies that only a part of the offsets — just over €250 million — could be utilised for the project.


Defence Research and Development Organisation would have had to provide the remaining €500 million, said sources. ET has learnt that DRDO did not find this price reasonable and is no longer considering the upgraded Kaveri engine for the next batch of 83 LCAs to be made in India or the Mark-2 version of the jet planned in the near future. The fighter jets are now likely to be powered by engines supplied by US’ General Electric. DRDO has spent more than €240 million on the Kaveri project so far without success. Four Years of Work Needed As per the Rafale contract, French companies have to invest 3.4 billion euros worth of offsets in India by 2023. Of these, Safran alone has to execute offsets in excess of 580 million euros.

The company, sources said, is now struggling to fulfil its obligations. Other firms undertaking offsets for the Rafale deal — Dassault, Thales and missile manufacturer MBDA — have already submitted detailed plans to execute their obligations and have commenced work with Indian partners. Sources told ET that advanced talks on reviving the Kaveri engine took place between DRDO and the French manufacturer, which were followed by a detailed project assessment, which brought out that four years of work was needed to get the engine back on track.



As per the proposal being discussed, the Kaveri engine, which was more or less abandoned as a project in 2014 since it did not provide enough thrust for the fighter jets, was to be modified into a worldclass product with transfer of technology as well as manufacturing rights. Engines are the most critical systems on fighter jets, and few nations have been able to master the technology to manufacture them. Rough estimates show that for a fleet of 200 LCAs in service, the cost of engines alone would be in excess of 25 billion euros over the lifecycle of the planes. India has been struggling to develop its own combat jet engine despite efforts stretching over two decades. Efforts are also on to develop a graded down ‘Ghatak’ version of the Kaveri engine for use in the unmanned aerial combat vehicle being developed by India.

idrw.org .Read more at India No 1 Defence News Website https://idrw.org/kaveri-engine-drdo...o-fulfil-its-e580-million-offsets-obligation/ .


Source article: https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...jet-engine-crash/amp_articleshow/70684809.cms

 

[uoftotaku]

Usual Pubby man nonsense. He acts as a mouthpiece for PSU lobby. Article full of unsubstantiated speculation but not actual fact to explain why it is that the cost for essentially "finishing" a partially developed engine should be so high nor why DRDO / GTRE in all their infinite wisdom get to decide that the expert estimate for work required is "too high".

As I mentioned before in other thread, the point of contention is GTRE's unwillingness to admit that their primary core design is flawed and requires an almost total rework. The reason for this unwillingness is even stupider than the stubbornness but I won't go into it (although you may freely guess)

The danger here is that with Safran unable to discharge its offset obligations they may face unnecessary heat as DPP doesn't have clear cut plan for this scenario where the chosen local recipient is either unable or unwilling to hold up their end of the contract.

If it all smells like a deep seated conspiracy by PSU to discredit the purchase...well you're not all that far from the truth. Much the same is happening in other PSU partners for offsets in Rafale deal but since most are smaller individual deals they don't get much media attention

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Sad state of affairs regarding Kaveri turbofan engine. I think we should not depend on others to pull our chestnuts out of the fire. We need to emulate China. They failed to successfully produce a reliable jet engine in the first attempt but did not give up. Now they have budgeted a massive 40 billion us dollar for a fresh attempt to make a reliable turbofan jet engine. We may not be able to match them in resources but the government needs to provide fresh budgetary support to GTRE. Also all our efforts should not be concentrated in only one institution. Large well run companies like L&T, Tatas, Godrej & Boyce etc with sufficient engineering skills should be encouraged to set up gas turbine research centres. Having multiple players in fields like aero engines increases healthy competition and progress. Our government needs to hand hold private companies to make a start in developing aero engines. In the US they have multiple aero engine manufacturers like Prat & Whitney, General Electric etc. We may not succeed immediately but perhaps in 10 years time, India will have a truly indigenous jet engine.

First thing first we need good test facilities. To even test one engine we need to go to Russia and uk. If we don't have facilities and jets to test it we cannot build it and second why we are not pushing public private partnership let gtre work with a private company like tata?

 

[uoftotaku]

First thing first we need good test facilities. To even test one engine we need to go to Russia and uk. If we don't have facilities and jets to test it we cannot build it and second why we are not pushing public private partnership let gtre work with a private company like tata?

Test facilities yes. Definitely required. However this requires strategic level thinking which is sadly lacking

Partnership of PSU with Pvt partner (especially a professional one like Tata) is a laughable prospect. GTRE has no desire to do so as it will essential create competition for themselves and eliminate their raison d'etre while Pvt firms don't want it because the work culture is too lax for Pvt standards

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Test facilities yes. Definitely required. However this requires strategic level thinking which is sadly lacking

Partnership of PSU with Pvt partner (especially a professional one like Tata) is a laughable prospect. GTRE has no desire to do so as it will essential create competition for themselves and eliminate their raison d'etre while Pvt firms don't want it because the work culture is too lax for Pvt standards

That's so sad we need to kick these psu out man they are playing with our feelings enthusiasts like me feel so happy when indigenous things are developed but pathetic PSU sometimes manufacture it our build indigenous sub systems truly saying I hate HAL for destroying Tejas program. GTRE i thought they would be good in development because they are part of drdo i guess but still psu are pathetic maybe you are right. In my thinking we should invite companies like to tata reliance and Mahindra share technology with them and use there capabilities to build one. PSU WORKER LIFE KAHYA PIYA SOGYE BC

 

[power_monger]

Name one indian private company which has designed , developed one major weapon system. Please stop this PSU bashing and private company praising. Only L&T stands tall among them. Rest less said is better.

 

[power_monger]

GTRE is getting manik engine near certification. You can't expect a engine designed and developed in pea nuts without proper support and test facilities. It looks like most of Indians have got into this habit of eternal cribbing instead of supporting and encouraging firms who at least are putting efforts. Btw what happened to engine development by bharat forge ? It was just 1.7 kn engine.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Name one indian private company which has designed , developed one major weapon system. Please stop this PSU bashing and private company praising. Only L&T stands tall among them. Rest less said is better.

Well they have good manufacturing capabilities and second in past government was busy in foreign lobby corruption. HAL screwdriver master workforce was chilling by tightening RUSSIAN su-30kits. Drdo- reliance partnership on tanks brought dead Arjun tank alive. Bharat forge. Tata - drdo atags. Walchandnagar Industries Limited. And in the L&T which is the backbone of indian navy. OFB is such a old manufacturer but i will say there work is so pathetic they cannot even match a STARTUP. HAL government spended millions to make sure they develop capabilities well there screw driver force was just limited to that only. World's biggest companies doesn't even wanna work with indias hal. IAF ex chief when asked about more orders for tejas he said HAL failed to provide US even prototype od mk-1a in these many years there production capabilites are truly poor.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

GTRE is getting manik engine near certification. You can't expect a engine designed and developed in pea nuts without proper support and test facilities. It looks like most of Indians have got into this habit of eternal cribbing instead of supporting and encouraging firms who at least are putting efforts. Btw what happened to engine development by bharat forge ? It was just 1.7 kn engine.

I still have my faith on drdo. . And i have trust and feel proud of cochin shipyard. But not on any other psu.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Name one indian private company which has designed , developed one major weapon system. Please stop this PSU bashing and private company praising. Only L&T stands tall among them. Rest less said is better.

Tonbo Imaging Optics

Spoiler

And many more u can see in their official website.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Tonbo Imaging Optics

Spoiler

And many more u can see in their official website.

Oh yeah baby made in india good going

 

[IndianHawk]

Name one indian private company which has designed , developed one major weapon system. Please stop this PSU bashing and private company praising. Only L&T stands tall among them. Rest less said is better.

Why would private companies build any weapon systems when the only buyer ( govt ) is funding only PSU to do that!

If you want private players to build something govt needs to fund research and guarantee a minimum purchase.

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

 

[Suryavanshi]

Name one indian private company which has designed , developed one major weapon system. Please stop this PSU bashing and private company praising. Only L&T stands tall among them. Rest less said is better.

Kalyani group

155mm ultra light artillery

155mm and 105 mm

 

[Suryavanshi]

Name one indian private company which has designed , developed one major weapon system. Please stop this PSU bashing and private company praising. Only L&T stands tall among them. Rest less said is better.

Tata self propelled artillery

Spoiler

Tata kestrel armoured personnel carrier

Spoiler

Tata Light Armoured Vehicle

Spoiler

Tata Mine Protect Vehicle

Spoiler

Tata also manufacture optics
They are already building Air Frame for Apache
They manufacture most of our Military trucks as well.