Kashmir Fateh Thread August 2019

[Rudy123]

Hitting CPEC and blocking KKH is a job that can be done in a few minutes by IAF without any international repercussions. Blocking China in IO is near impossible because it will block all the sea trade.

CPEC gives zero military advantage to China. Not to mention India has disputed it officially. Any transgression on India's border by China will result in all the investment gone into the drain. More China invests in CEPC more it makes them nervous about India. By abrogating 370 India has not given a message to Pakistan but shown its intent to China how seriously we take this so-called dispute.

It is not India who is desperate to give access to China, but it is China's script to keep India confused about making an alliance with USA.

The Idea of remaining isolated and blocking this and that shows old and insecure mentality. India won't be able to sustain its growth if remained isolated. The trade deficit in favour of China is not going to stay the same forever. The lowest denominator of any connectivity lead by China is going to serve India vis a vis trade relationship with SE Asian countries. The look east policy is all about connectivity. If China is becoming part of this endevour then let it be.

The security challenges can not become impediments to stop this connectivity. It is better to be rich and handle these challenges than be poor and still endure the same.

CPEC had many advantages except development of Pakistan. CPEC main idea is to withdraw western aid money to Pak in form of debt repayment. Also it can be seen as strings of pearl. Shortest route from Arab without any adversaries in route. Safety of CPEC inspired by US military transport to Afghan without any major halt.

China is not a blue water navy, so in last decade they made plan to have listening ports and docking rights in various countries. India can be seen as threat because we covers sea route from Arabian sea to Malacca Strait which makes us at very strategic location. But because till now we cannot spread our navy, china started meddling with countries like SL and Maldives. Andaman is reply to string of pearls, its act as deterrence.

One thing I know for sure if India start making acts to take POK back, China will not sit silent. Till now other than giving joint statements at various forums China did not do anything. So taking back POK will not be done in few years. India first priority is to normalize JK and make unrest in various parts of Pak.

Regarding India's growth and relationship with US and China. Firstly India does not need China for strengthening our relationship with SE Asia. Culture is playing big role there and we have big potential.

I agree with you that we neglect connectivity with various countries. We do talk more and work less. In Modi first term many line of credits were expedited to various countries ex Mongolia 1 Bn, Vietnam 500 million but most of them never utilized yet. In congress we have many project going in various countries which deepens our relation ex salma dam afghanistan. But now we dont have good connectivity in our backyard. SE asia requested our active participation despite being member of Asean. Modi come take photos and go back, no substantial work on ground. If in remote part of Africa people respect Indian because we are working as peace keeping force then it is not big achievement, it can be replaced.

India was destined to have good relation with US, France, Russia or every polar available on planet. Despite having so much potential we cannot ignore superpowers despite having it other way around.

 

[mayfair]

Wow IAF officers daughter and such an anti national atttitude?or is this ideological blindness , wiki says she is daughter of an engineer

Pravin Sawhney, Ajai Shukla, Kapil Kak et al.... the list is long.

Armed forces like the society are made up of people from all walks of life, with all kinds of ideologies.

 

[Waanar]

Who is the chachundar in black ?
__________________________________

Zaid Hamid Saahab ko nahi jaante? Tu kitna Bhola hai, mera bhai...
Koi nahi. Jaan jaaoge. Tab samjhoge Pakistani army ka PAWA!

CPEC had many advantages except development of Pakistan. CPEC main idea is to withdraw western aid money to Pak in form of debt repayment. Also it can be seen as strings of pearl. Shortest route from Arab without any adversaries in route. Safety of CPEC inspired by US military transport to Afghan without any major halt.

China is not a blue water navy, so in last decade they made plan to have listening ports and docking rights in various countries. India can be seen as threat because we covers sea route from Arabian sea to Malacca Strait which makes us at very strategic location. But because till now we cannot spread our navy, china started meddling with countries like SL and Maldives. Andaman is reply to string of pearls, its act as deterrence.

One thing I know for sure if India start making acts to take POK back, China will not sit silent. Till now other than giving joint statements at various forums China did not do anything. So taking back POK will not be done in few years. India first priority is to normalize JK and make unrest in various parts of Pak.

Regarding India's growth and relationship with US and China. Firstly India does not need China for strengthening our relationship with SE Asia. Culture is playing big role there and we have big potential.

I agree with you that we neglect connectivity with various countries. We do talk more and work less. In Modi first term many line of credits were expedited to various countries ex Mongolia 1 Bn, Vietnam 500 million but most of them never utilized yet. In congress we have many project going in various countries which deepens our relation ex salma dam afghanistan. But now we dont have good connectivity in our backyard. SE asia requested our active participation despite being member of Asean. Modi come take photos and go back, no substantial work on ground. If in remote part of Africa people respect Indian because we are working as peace keeping force then it is not big achievement, it can be replaced.

India was destined to have good relation with US, France, Russia or every polar available on planet. Despite having so much potential we cannot ignore superpowers despite having it other way around.

Yo, when will there be sum Uighur Liberation man? East Turkestan Islamic Movement needs dat dere fire.

 

[Bleh]

Go and visit a refugee camp of Pakistani Hindus some day. See what conditions they're living in, ask how their formal application processes for permanent residence/citizenship are moving along, and whether anyone has made any effort to help them or get them on their feet. Also, realize that these are often dirt poor, low caste Hindus with no real means to come across; and most past Gvts have not been so amenable to bringing them over and doing something for them. Hell, even this current Gvt, which I have the most expectations from, is still struggling to pass the CAB.

If you cannot; at least read about it. Then talk.

Very good points & I challenge you, no BJP government will ever do anything to fix that.
They just claim they care about Hindus for Hindu votes. Those voters don't care about Hindus either... No, they prioritise cutting off Pakistan-China by taking POK full of radical muslims, even if the price for that is India's very safety/stability!

Anyways, my point still stands, the best thing we can do is concentrate on taking equal sized lands where their Hindus live instead!

Not to mention open deserts will be for easier to take with India superiors numbers & firepower, compared to mountain is POK where you can't even use armour (or even transport vehicles) at most places, file the enemy will be well dug-in at high ground.
50% probability is that it'll be an oversized Kargil or Haji-Pir & Indian offensive will end up failing while taking too much casualties.

 

[Waanar]

Very good points & I assure you no BJP government will ever do anything to fix that, they just claim they care about Hindus for Hindu votes. Those voters don't care about Hindus either... No, they prioritise cutting off Pakistan-China by taking POK full of radical muslims, even if the price for that is India's very safety/stability!

Anyways, my point still stands, the best thing we can do is concentrate on taking those parts where their Hindus live instead!

Well....
Why not both?

30 charsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

 

[Bleh]

Well....
Why not both?

30 charsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

Good question!
As I said before, in that case when people of POK march at LoC with Kashmiri flags, India should ask them to come with domicile certificate & let them enter after a frisk.
Because when you take POK, those people are going to be inside of India anyways.

So I request again, go interact online with as many people of "Azad Kashmir" & Gilgit-Baltistan as possible... If you think Indian Kashmiris are nuts, then they are coconuts!

 

[Waanar]

Good question!
As I said before... in that case, when people of POK march at LoC with Kashmiri flags, India should ask them to come with domicile certificate & let them enter after a frisk.
Because when you take POK, those people are going to be inside of India anyways.

So I request again, go interact online with as many people of "Azad Kashmir" & Gilgit-Baltistan as possible.

See, we're beginning to lose sight of why or how PoK can be captured. No country in the world recognizes Kashmir as an absolute territory. Every single one of them considers it disputed. This is why we have some leeway in attacking and capturing PoK. Sindh, IIRC, isn't even considered anything other than territory of Pakistan and thus will generate a bigger outrage than that of PoK. These things matter and we can scream all "INDIA, FOOK YEAH" but.. yeah..

There's also the fact that once PoK is taken, Pakistan is crippled to the point of being nowhere near the development standards of fucking Bihar, thus Sindh can be a long term goal, not an immediate one. Whatever is going on is taking the best course of action for India.. or so I hope..
They may be coconuts but remember, cracking coconuts is good luck.

We could always introduce a policy like "GORAKHPUR ME REHNA HAI? YOGI YOGI KEHNA HAI!".
We'll just have to wait.
Damn, we live in interesting times, don't we?

 

[Bleh]

See, we're beginning to lose sight of why or how PoK can be captured. No country in the world recognizes Kashmir as an absolute territory. Every single one of them considers it disputed. This is why we have some leeway in attacking and capturing PoK. Sindh, IIRC, isn't even considered anything other than territory of Pakistan and thus will generate a bigger outrage than that of PoK. These things matter and we can scream all "INDIA, FOOK YEAH" but.. yeah..

Taking the lands around Sindh-Rajasthan & asking for POK in exchange of them (which Pakis will refuse) thus keeping them instead is the only feasible future.
But taking POK itself is as much "whether" as it is "how"... India took a lots of casualties for even minor objectives like few peaks in Kargil & Haji-Pir pass ('65).

Sindh's flat open deserts will be far easier to take with India superiors numbers & firepower, compared to mountainous POK where you can't even use armour (or even transport vehicles) at most places, while your enemy will be well dug-in at high ground.
50% probability is that it'll be an oversized Kargil or Haji-Pir & Indian offensive will end up failing while taking too much casualties, becoming a ground for Pakistani ridicule for decades to come. It's easy for your Motabhai to say "jaan de denge" because he won't be the one actually doing it.

There's also the fact that once PoK is taken, Pakistan is crippled to the point of being nowhere near the development standards of fucking Bihar, thus Sindh can be a long term goal, not an immediate one. Whatever is going on is taking the best course of action for India.. or so I hope..
They may be coconuts but remember, cracking coconuts is good luck.?

India hasn't been able to crack the nuts in 30 years... 30 years from today, those nuts will still burst crackers if Pakistan wins cricket-match at best & readily spy for them at worst. But sandwiched between China & Pakistan, they'll try make POK full of coconuts into another mini-Afghanistan!

I would bring up how Hindus (who'll still be living in Pakistan in this case) will be even more persecuted if Pak loses POK, but clearly nobody here cares unless one of them makes headline for being raped or killed.
So instead I'll say: Stop fantasizing only about best-case-scenarios.

 

[Waanar]

Taking POK is as much "whether" as it is "how"... India took a lots of casualties for even minor objectives like Kargil and Haji-Pir pass ('65).

Sindh's flat open deserts will be far easier to take with India superiors numbers & firepower, compared to mountainous POK where you can't even use armour (or even transport vehicles) at most places, while your enemy will be well dug-in at high ground.
50% probability is that it'll be an oversized Kargil or Haji-Pir & Indian offensive will end up failing while taking too much casualties, Bikaner ground for Pakistani ridicule for decades to come. It's easy for your Motabhai to say "jaan de denge" because he won't be the one actually do it.

Taking the lands around Sindh-Rajasthan & asking for POK in exchange of them (which Pakis will refuse) thus keeping them instead is the only feasible future.
India hasn't been able to crack the nuts in 30 years... 30 years from today, those nuts will still burst crackers in Pakistan wins cricket-match at best & really spy for them at worst. But sandwiched between China & Pakistan, they'll make POK could become another Afghanistan!

I would bring up how Hindu (who'll still be living there in this case) will be given more prosecuted if Pak loses POK, but clearly nobody here cares unless one of them naked headline for being raped or killed.

Let's wait and watch. I'm almost pretty sure the Indian Army won't mount it's first serious offensive of this century without contingencies and plans for the future in place.
As for Sindh, you're counting wayyy too much on 1% of the population. Our focus should be on Ghar-wapsi kind of movements than that of simply building an Israel like safe refuge for Jews. We should focus on spread of Hinduism, not on preservation.
Get some brainwashing ricebag handouts missionaries ffs.

 

[Bleh]

...Ghar-wapsi kind of movements than that of simply building an Israel like safe refuge for Jews. We should focus on spread of Hinduism, not on preservation.
Get some brainwashing ricebag handouts missionaries ffs.

:hippo::hippo::hippo::hippo::hippo::hippo:
Yeah, that's gonna happen!! You should have said this earlier, I wouldn't waste so much time.

Go see the Evangelism thread to see Hindus helplessly bitch & watch, as lower caste Hindus willingly throw away their "Great Sanatan Dharma" for spare change from Christian missionaries... that too with the most powerful pro-Hindu govts ever all over the country.
Only a few upper-class intellectual western liberals have ever converted to Hinduism, no muslim ever will!

 

[Rudy123]

Zaid Hamid Saahab ko nahi jaante? Tu kitna Bhola hai, mera bhai...
Koi nahi. Jaan jaaoge. Tab samjhoge Pakistani army ka PAWA!



Yo, when will there be sum Uighur Liberation man? East Turkestan Islamic Movement needs dat dere fire.

Why you want to start uighur liberation. We are not expert in that region and it was more controlled by Russia.
China only safeguarding their interest they are not meddling in your internal issue.

 

[Sanglamorre]

Why you want to start uighur liberation. We are not expert in that region and it was more controlled by Russia.
China only safeguarding their interest they are not meddling in your internal issue.

Who do you think was funding the Maoists? In Bengal during the heyday they even had the slogan that "China's chairman is our chairman".

 

[afako]

I don't know, a lot of things are operational but not in public domain. Or they are going to use some other kind of operation.

I ask lot of questions to him (my source) about rumours we get and he selectively picks them & tells me whether it is rumour or not. He also rejects some questions.

India has actually been willing to annex PoK in few months and is also willing to involve USA to avoid Chinese intervention.

They also had vision to sign an alliance agreement with USA but US isn't willing to recognize India as a nuclear power.

I dually asked him & even tried to contradict him that we may not be ready for such big operation. He denied all, confirmed operation and said government thinks this opportunity won't come again easily & army and Navy (indonated) holds all kind of capabilities to conduct. Great powers are occupied and Pakistan is in economic trouble.

The last point is very correct. It’s always about the right moment to initiate an invasion or declare war.

And who knows perhaps what’s holds ahead. The biggest question mark is whether the friendly strong leaders may be perhaps not in power in their respective countries in the future. Putin, Trump, Abe, Netanyahu, Johnson all have excellent relationship with Modi on a personal level. Makes full sense to utilise this opportunity.

 

[Rudy123]

Who do you think was funding the Maoists? In Bengal during the heyday they even had the slogan that "China's chairman is our chairman".

Maoist are dead cause and nearing to it's end. India and China both going to become trade Giants. It would be foolishness to start a new front. As a developing country we would focus on closing all pending issue but not at cost of our interest.

Even you will agree that US is interfering more after Pakistan

 

[Bhadra]

Pravin Sawhney, Ajai Shukla, Kapil Kak et al.... the list is long.

Armed forces like the society are made up of people from all walks of life, with all kinds of ideologies.

Everyone has a history behind them.... in between here was a rumour that Ajai Shukla was told that there is a file.......

I happen to have personal knowledge of them can vouch for their intelligence and good intellectual capacities.....

But can one help if a fellow like Pravin Sawhney is used by our own int agencies to malign the Army a la "Sarp Vinash"... Huh he can really write some filth... using all confidentail material provided to him. One does not have to be a James Bond to guess who provides that...

One day at Airwarware College in Secunderabad I asked Kapil Kak as to why the Jihadis never targeted Gandhi family like the Tigers did ... he just kept quite...

Ajay Shukla was smitten by Eros.... all the way. But he can write well, I suppose... and he is not from La Martiniere as many would claim...

 

[Bhadra]

Got laid with some classmate civilian girl or army girl ?

A girl is a girl and a boy is a boy or you think being Army brat means different sizes or one makes different sounds which I suppose are universal ......

By the way being laid means only one thing.... boy or girl... proves only that Army brats do not get laid .... They lay.....

 

[Bhadra]

Completely agree. It’s history of this world. Behind every trade and trader the flag of the country goes. Flag goes to protect trade.

Yes Sir, but one must have a flag .... then only one can hoist it.

Not long ago even the Pirates had flags including King's or queens flags but Indians who dominated all Arab markets, coastal trade and the far East had no flags excepts for the Cholas and Satavahanas ....

Our concept of trade was never based of trade by conquest until that deep rooted Roman and Egyptian beastial custom of killing and enslaving for trade permeated to the entire enslaved Europe.

Chola imported Kings and Queens for their dwindling "Nag" heritage.

 

[mayfair]

I happen to have personal knowledge of them can vouch for their intelligence and good intellectual capacities.....

Similar sentiments have been voiced by folks about their personal interactions with Mani Shankar Aiyyar- they may be "intelligent" and "intellectual", but all that makes them is an "intellectual" c*nt.

But can one help if a fellow like Pravin Sawhney is used by our own int agencies to malign the Army a la "Sarp Vinash"... Huh he can really write some filth... using all confidentail material provided to him. One does not have to be a James Bond to guess who provides that...

But that still leaves the issue of the "intellectual" ex-armyman willing to write trash to slander the organisation he was himself a part of. (Don't know if he served it pridefully or contemptuously). Not much to guess what does it make him.

One day at Airwarware College in Secunderabad I asked Kapil Kak as to why the Jihadis never targeted Gandhi family like the Tigers did ... he just kept quite...

That's an interesting anecdote. Did he smile in a mysterious manner or was he annoyed/irritated by your query?

Ajay Shukla was smitten by Eros.... all the way. But he can write well, I suppose... and he is not from La Martiniere as many would claim...

Doesn't matter where he's from, he's proven himself to be a lying, dishonest, bulshitting d**khead.

 

[Bhadra]

Very good points & I challenge you, no BJP government will ever do anything to fix that.
They just claim they care about Hindus for Hindu votes. Those voters don't care about Hindus either... No, they prioritise cutting off Pakistan-China by taking POK full of radical muslims, even if the price for that is India's very safety/stability!

Anyways, my point still stands, the best thing we can do is concentrate on taking equal sized lands where their Hindus live instead!

Not to mention open deserts will be for easier to take with India superiors numbers & firepower, compared to mountain is POK where you can't even use armour (or even transport vehicles) at most places, file the enemy will be well dug-in at high ground.
50% probability is that it'll be an oversized Kargil or Haji-Pir & Indian offensive will end up failing while taking too much casualties.

The purple areas shown by you shows old Bahawalpur state and Saoda Rajput Sindh. We take it and taht is no big deal...

But can you keep it ?? Is it so valuable that Pakistan would trade POK for that...

So that clearly is not the flank of decision . During Brasstacks buildup in 1986, Pakistani Army denuded that area during final stages and concentrated both their Armoured divisions in Punjab. They literally conveyed - take it.

We should take only what we can keep. Well so far beating the Pakistani Army blue is concerned- we have done that many times but it is not solving our problems... Jihadism..

Indian forces must switch targets and take Punjab --- population be damned. Capture Lahore and they will give much more than POK. But Punjab too is as difficult as mountains.

So try and take both... Mountains can be a very big block but once broken , it can also provide tremendous opportunities too.

 

[Indrajit]

While we are all busy talking about PoK and how to take it, almost no one seems to be concerned with the fresh infiltration that's happened with many jihadis walking around openly in rural Kashmir. Seems the government is waiting for UNGA to be over, otherwise I cant understand why there are no operations. This isn't looking good.