JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong

[pankaj nema]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

JF-17 is an aircraft which will replace the old Mirages in PAF.

It is not meant to fight the high end fighters.

I said this years ago on a Pak forum. But at that time, they were busy talking about how JF will bring down MKIs by the dozens. I wonder if it is the same even today.

There is a lot of GLOOM on the enemy forum regarding JF 17

They are hoping and praying for a Block 2 ; Block 1 is a dud they have finally accepted it

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

There is a lot of GLOOM on the enemy forum regarding JF 17

They are hoping and praying for a Block 2 ; Block 1 is a dud they have finally accepted it

Block 2 will not happen until more engines are bought from Russia for blunder block 2

.http://news.rediff.com/interview/2010/jul/05/russia-blocks-engine-sales-for-sino-pak-jets.htm

Russia blocks sale of engines for Sino-Pak fighter jets

 

[drkrn]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

jf-17 has always been a very low end fighter only to fill numbers.
once nawaz sharif accepted that its inferior to lca.

 

[arkem8]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

Some questions that need to be answered:

1. How many J-10's have the Chinese managed to sell??

2. Why isn't the JF-17 selling?? Even the SoKo Golden Eagle has more buyers..

Keep in mind the production minded Chinese military which always believes in mass producing weaponry after mastering it. Since the J-10 was procured in quite large quantities(~200) why didn't they manage to export it?? Why did Myanmar buy Migs-29's, why didn't Egypt, Thailand or Bangladesh buy either the jf-17 or j-10??

To me it seems just just another Chini roadside batata vada!!

 

[Drsomnath999]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

PAF VISION 2020

Funniest thing is this pic which i created & posted was discussed in chinese forum

 

[Akim]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

From data of Russian specialists, FC - 1(JF - 17) is at the level of F - 16A, J - 10 at the level of F -16С

 

[sayareakd]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

From data of Russian specialists, FC - 1(JF - 17) is at the level of F - 16A, J - 10 at the level of F -16С

yeah and that so called Russian would turn out to be Pakistani...............

BTW Pakistani always say that JF 17 is equal to or more then J10 fighter, only reason China dont want is due to its range.

 

[Akim]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

: Scared1:

BTW Pakistani always say that JF 17 is equal to or more then J10 fighter, only reason China dont want is due to its range.

If he better what J - 10, why does not China buy FC - 1? :shocked::

 

[sayareakd]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

: Scared1:
If he better what J - 10, why does not China buy FC - 1? :shocked::

because of this..................

PAF VISION 2020

 

[Apollyon]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

Russia blocks sale of engines for Sino-Pak jets - Rediff.com India News

Russia blocks sale of engines for Sino-Pak fighter jets

Under the inter-governmental bilateral agreement in November 2007 China was allowed to re-export RD-93 as part of FC-1 fighter to Egypt, Nigeria, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia and Algeria," press service of state arms exporting monopoly ROE was quoted as saying by the daily.

A framework agreement for the sale of 500 such engines for the Sino-Pak joint fighter was also signed at that time and Beijing [ Images ] was ready to buy up to 1,000 engines worth over US $ 3 billion, if Russia agreed to offer its modernised version with greater thrust

and Pakis were claiming that, as depicted in a JF-17 poster at Zhuhai 2010 RD-93 produces 98 KN , but everyone knows it's produces 49KN Dry Thrust and 83KN After Burner Thrust although it has a provision of emergency thrust of 88KN but only be used during take-off where air is denser and it's based on the older RD-33 (1980's tech) not newer RD-33MK "Sea Wasp" ....

 

[Bhadra]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

Let it cross over into Indian air space then it will be seen how much good it is.

 

[ice berg]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

Even Chinese ejection seats don't work

A Pakistan Air Force (PAF) aircraft crashed in the Attock district on Monday.

Another clueless post from our resident troll. J-17 uses British made ejection seats.
I have no problem with chinese bashing, however I strongly suggest people at least have some basic knowledges....

 

[ice berg]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

Some questions that need to be answered:

1. How many J-10's have the Chinese managed to sell??

2. Why isn't the JF-17 selling?? Even the SoKo Golden Eagle has more buyers..

Keep in mind the production minded Chinese military which always believes in mass producing weaponry after mastering it. Since the J-10 was procured in quite large quantities(~200) why didn't they manage to export it?? Why did Myanmar buy Migs-29's, why didn't Egypt, Thailand or Bangladesh buy either the jf-17 or j-10??

To me it seems just just another Chini roadside batata vada!!

You will know the answers to your question if you bother to read the first post in this very thread. May I suggest you do that first? Btw read the whole article instead of the dumb down version.

 

[arkem8]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

You will know the answers to your question if you bother to read the first post in this very thread. May I suggest you do that first? Btw read the whole article instead of the dumb down version.

No one that has the money to buy an American, European or Russian aircraft will buy Chinese.... This is the "dumbed down" version of my post....

That is why the chinese aircraft exports are low tech low cost items like the K-8 and the J-7. Much like Geely and Cherry is to the auto-mobile market.

 

[pankaj nema]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

Regarding J 10 Pakis and Chinese members BOTH on the enemy forum are
SPECULATING what is the big delay

There are three theories going around

1 PAF has NO MONEY China is NOT giving freebies at least this time ie
the price China wants for its J 10 is not affordable to the pakis

2 . AL 31 engines are NOT for sale J 10 is powered by AL 31
which has been barred by the Russians for exports AND WS 10 is Not ready

3 Pakis want a better quality J 10 B and not the current J 10 A
This means J 10 A is also below the Paki expectations

 

[Bhadra]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

Regarding J 10 Pakis and Chinese members BOTH on the enemy forum are
SPECULATING what is the big delay

There are three theories going around

1 PAF has NO MONEY China is NOT giving freebies at least this time ie
the price China wants for its J 10 is not affordable to the pakis

2 . AL 31 engines are NOT for sale J 10 is powered by AL 31
which has been barred by the Russians for exports AND WS 10 is Not ready

3 Pakis want a better quality J 10 B and not the current J 10 A
This means J 10 A is also below the Paki expectations

Good for world peace !!

 

[ice berg]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

You have a habit of stating the obvious. If you can afford audi, you wont buy a Lada.

Unfortunately not every one can afford an Audi. Get my point?

That is why we have market segmentation.

As regarding K-8 . Low tech or not, there are still a dozen countries operation them. I recall certain country who still need to import basic trainer...:cool2:

 

[Yusuf]

You have a habit of stating the obvious. If you can afford audi, you wont buy a Lada.

Unfortunately not every one can afford an Audi. Get my point?

That is why we have market segmentation.

As regarding K-8 . Low tech or not, there are still a dozen countries operation them. I recall certain country who still need to import basic trainer...:cool2:

Yeah, might as well they buy spitfires. Those countries probably need fighters either to satisfy their egos or commit mass murders of their own people. Those countries don't even need an AF as they don't have enemies or threat perception at all. I mean what is the biggest threat to Zimbabwe? It's their bloody president!

 

[ice berg]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

Yeah, might as well they buy spitfires. Those countries probably need fighters either to satisfy their egos or commit mass murders of their own people. Those countries don't even need an AF as they don't have enemies or threat perception at all. I mean what is the biggest threat to Zimbabwe? It's their bloody president!

Using jet trainer to commit mass murders? AK-47 will do just fine. Or any other weapon for that matter. Why dont you lecture USA and your dear friend Russia on that? Oh you must have missed the fact that Russia is still selling weapons to Syria. So stop been a hypocrite.

 

[p2prada]

Re: JF-17 obsolete and cheap aircraft, ideal for Pakistan

They are hoping and praying for a Block 2 ; Block 1 is a dud they have finally accepted it

LoL. I had pointed that out too. The Block 1 is same as LCA Mk1. It failed to reach performance goals.

In terms of electronics it is inferior to the Mk1 as well. In terms of T/W ratio it is lower than LCA Mk1. It won't function as well as it should in desert heat. Weapons choices, we have more, way better choices. But I am not sure how far Chinese weaponry has progressed.

Block 1 has no growth prospects and Block 2 isn't gonna be any different. Heck, an aircraft strapped PAF only managed 50 Block 1s which is a big deal. Block 2 seems to have 50 orders too and from what we know there will be a small radar upgrade and some avionics upgrade. If there is no engine change or even a high thrust variant of the RD-93, then it will be as useless as the Block 1. They can only hope they can upgrade the Block 1 to carry a new high thrust engine, but it will be way too difficult to the point where their only selling point, "Affordability", could go for a toss.

From data of Russian specialists, FC - 1(JF - 17) is at the level of F - 16A, J - 10 at the level of F -16С

I wouldn't be so sure. The J-10A has nothing out of the ordinary that the F-16A/B does not already have. I can say the supersonic performance of the J-10 would be greater than F-16, but nothing to indicate it will beat the F-16C that easily. A single engine AL-31F powered aircraft is bad news. It is not as reliable as a P&W or GE engine. Even a twin engine flanker has less chance for worry. IAF and VVS would have had more Flanker and Fulcrum crashes had there been only one engine. You can say the J-10B is a dark horse, let's see how the new engine fares.

As a single engine aircraft, if the J-10 cannot match the reliability of the F-16 then it is another white elephant. We know for sure that the Gripen has exceeded expectations compared to F-16. At least LCA uses a GE engine and we know that HAL and ADA are happy with their choice of engines.