J-21/J-31 Chinese 5th Generation Stealth Fighter

[johnj]

The FC-31 has been tested and refined over the past ten years as part of a private from Shenyang. It is good enough that the Chinese Navy decided to choice it as the basis for the J-35 instead of the well-established J-20 which is mass produced in the hundreds

I do not know much about the AMCA but I know it is not flying or tested or was in a competition with the national 5th Gen fighter for an important position.

To understand how important, the PLAN has given its landbased units (hundreds of fighters and bombers) to focus on its carrier arm. The J-35 is the centerpiece and it had to beat out a successful advanced fighter already in mass production with the PLAAF.

Who is going to pay for Pak 5th gen ??

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Who is going to pay for Pak 5th gen ??

I would assume Pakistan, no?

 

[johnj]

I would assume Pakistan, no?

Their economy is struggling, I don't they can afford 5th gen in this decade
5th gen not only too expensive to buy, but also extremely expensive to maintain

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Their economy is struggling, I don't they can afford 5th gen in this decade
5th gen not only too expensive to buy, but also extremely expensive to maintain

I don't know. They are able to involve themselves in multiple projects not only with China. KAAN/TXF and MILGEM corvettes from Turkey comes to mind. Also many rumors that FC-31 might eventually be a pan-Middle East project with Saudi Arabia being a main backer. That can also lead to Pakistan getting funding.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Much rumors of FC-31 being pursued by ME countries -- if multiple nations in region opt for FC-31 then Pakistan would have avenues to procurement as part of a greater whole?

 

[johnj]

I don't know. They are able to involve themselves in multiple projects not only with China. KAAN/TXF and MILGEM corvettes from Turkey comes to mind. Also many rumors that FC-31 might eventually be a pan-Middle East project with Saudi Arabia being a main backer. That can also lead to Pakistan getting funding.


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Yes, a lots of projects, that's why they can.t afford 5th gen till 2030, may be after 2035
First consider Turkie SAM s/m purchase before considering sale of Chinese high tech equipment to US militarily partners / allies Also US designing new version of f35 for export - US sabotage any Chinese military sales which harm US companies profits/interest
Now Turkey developing their own 5th gen, SAM etc insisted of buying Chinese, Saudi show interest in UKs 6th gen
Since economic of lots of developing countries are growing, Chinese can easily find customers for j31 after 2030/35

 

[Hari Sud]

Their economy is struggling, I don't they can afford 5th gen in this decade
5th gen not only too expensive to buy, but also extremely expensive to maintain

That is part of their psycho warfare on India. Everybody knows they cannot afford to pay but they still make a false effort to get it. Also it works on Americans too that unless they supply for free, otherwise they will get it from China.

 

[maximus777]

I would assume Pakistan, no?

How? With mujrah perfromances?

 

[SexyChineseLady]

J-35 mockup on Liaoning! It is STOBAR capable!

 

[SexyChineseLady]

J-35!

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Film clip of J-35!!!

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Evolution of FC-31 to J-35:

View attachment 237725

So how many airframes exist? Four?
FC-31 V1 31001/PT-01 1st FC-31 flown in Oct'2012 with RD-93 engine.
FC-31 V1 31002/PT-02 for ground testing
FC-31 V2 31003 revealed at Zuhai airshow in Nov'2014, flew 1st in Dec'2016 in yellow-green paint with WS-21(WS-13E) engine.
J-35 35003 reported in 2020, flew 1st in Oct'2021 in green paint with WS-21(WS-13E) engine, painted grey in 2022.
What is status of WS-19 engine?
Also, it has been a nightmare to guess the empty & gross weight of these airframes.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

So how many airframes exist? Four?
FC-31 V1 31001/PT-01 1st FC-31 flown in Oct'2012 with RD-93 engine.
FC-31 V1 31002/PT-02 for ground testing
FC-31 V2 31003 revealed at Zuhai airshow in Nov'2014, flew 1st in Dec'2016 in yellow-green paint with WS-21(WS-13E) engine.
J-35 35003 reported in 2020, flew 1st in Oct'2021 in green paint with WS-21(WS-13E) engine, painted grey in 2022.
What is status of WS-19 engine?
Also, it has been a nightmare to guess the empty & gross weight of these airframes.

1. FC-31 V1
2. FC-31 V2
3. J-35 35001
4. J-35 35003
5. J-35 3505
6. J-31 prototype

WS-19 has had IL-76 FTB flights. But interim engine is now WS-21 instead of WS-13E. WS-21 supposedly incorporates elements of cancelled WS-12, hence name change.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Back in 2023, there were rumors that WS-19 had been tested on a fighter not just the FTB. It could have been the J-35 or the FC-31 prototypes or, less probable because of single-engine, one of the FC-1/JF-17 testbeds:

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

1. FC-31 V1
2. FC-31 V2
3. J-35 35001
4. J-35 35003
5. J-35 3505
6. J-31 prototype

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WS-19 has had IL-76 FTB flights. But interim engine is now WS-21 instead of WS-13E. WS-21 supposedly incorporates elements of cancelled WS-12, hence name change.

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Chinese citizens on other forums stated that V1 PT-02/31002 also exist for ground testing.
I wonder why J-35 serials avoid the even numbers. I thought 35001 & 35002 were ground test vehicles or digital iterations & the green jet 35001 was 35003 later painted grey.
After checking multiple Chinese & international websites it seems that WS-13E & WS-21 are same.

View attachment 257961

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Chinese citizens on other forums stated that V1 PT-02/31002 also exist for ground testing.
I wonder why J-35 serials avoid the even numbers. I thought 35001 & 35002 were ground test vehicles or digital iterations & the green jet 35001 was 35003 later painted grey.
After checking multiple Chinese & international websites it seems that WS-13E & WS-21 are same.
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350001 and 350003 are flying prototypes since they were spotted in the field. Static test models are usually the second so there is a great possibility of a 350002 hidden in a SAC building somewhere.

For the WS-13E to be renamed to WS-21 there need to be major differences or a dramatic change between the two -- people said 21 was chosen as a tribute to the WS-12. The WS-10 series had many variants including a TVC but never a change in type name.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

350001 and 350003 are flying prototypes since they were spotted in the field. Static test models are usually the second so there is a great possibility of a 350002 hidden in a SAC building somewhere.

For the WS-13E to be renamed to WS-21 there need to be major differences or a dramatic change between the two -- people said 21 was chosen as a tribute to the WS-12. The WS-10 series had many variants including a TVC but never a change in type name.

The model numbering shoud ideally be as per developments but in special cases the numbers are altered. It has happened across the globe. So whatever be the reason, ultimately WS-21 is WS-13E.
If WS-19 has been tested on J-35 after IL-76 FTB then the timeline looks like following :
2012 - FC-31 V1, black, 31001, RD-93 engine
2016 - FC-31 V2, yellow-green, 31003, WS-13 engine
2021 - J-35, green, 35001, WS-21/13E engine
2022 - J-35, grey, 35003, WS-21/13E engine
2023 - assumed testing of WS-19 on IL-76 FTB.
2024 - J-35, grey, 3505, WS-21/13E or WS-19 engine
2024 - J-31 rumored, grey, WS-13E or WS-19 engine
I hope this looks correct, only thing remaining is to confirm WS-19 testing on J-35 protorype.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

The model numbering shoud ideally be as per developments but in special cases the numbers are altered. It has happened across the globe. So whatever be the reason, ultimately WS-21 is WS-13E.
If WS-19 has been tested on J-35 after IL-76 FTB then the timeline looks like following :
2012 - FC-31 V1, black, 31001, RD-93 engine
2016 - FC-31 V2, yellow-green, 31003, WS-13 engine
2021 - J-35, green, 35001, WS-21/13E engine
2022 - J-35, grey, 35003, WS-21/13E engine
2023 - assumed testing of WS-19 on IL-76 FTB.
2024 - J-35, grey, 3505, WS-21/13E or WS-19 engine
2024 - J-31 rumored, grey, WS-13E or WS-19 engine
I hope this looks correct, only thing remaining is to confirm WS-19 testing on J-35 protorype.

Note, 2023 is the rumored testing of WS-19 on a fighter platform -- presumably one of the FC-31/J-35 prototypes. See the twitter posting above. The testing on the IL-76 FTB for the WS-19 happened before 2023.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

This is from 2021:

The IL-76 FTB has a new engine (covered in yellow tarp) for testing on its inboard portside pylon. This is believed to be either the WS-19 or WS-21 from its size and date. WS-13E was already on JF-17 and FC-31 testbeds at the time so it is unlikely to be a WS-13 family type. WS-15 is too big and is already on fighter testbeds. So if the WS-21 is just the WS-13E (or WS-13 variant) then the test engine has to be the WS-19 unless China has another fighter engine we do not know about.

The yellow Y-20 in front is the 7810 prototype that did four-engine testing of the WS-20 after transition from Il-76 FTB:

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

This is from 2021:
View attachment 258007

The IL-76 FTB has a new engine (covered in yellow tarp) for testing on its inboard portside pylon. This is believed to be either the WS-19 or WS-21 from its size and date. WS-13E was already on JF-17 and FC-31 testbeds at the time so it is unlikely to be a WS-13 family type. WS-15 is too big and is already on fighter testbeds. So if the WS-21 is just the WS-13E (or WS-13 variant) then the test engine has to be the WS-19 unless China has another fighter engine we do not know about.

The yellow Y-20 in front is the 7810 prototype that did four-engine testing of the WS-20 after transition from Il-76 FTB:

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There is a confusion above with V1 & V2. Outside China very little info is available. Certain websites don't open in certain countries. Different sites state different info.
Some sites demand paid premium option for preliminary unconfirmed data.

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The following website confidently links J-35 35003 (spotted in 2022) with WS-21/13E engine, maning WS-19 not tested yet on J-35.
(https://jetlinemarvel.net/china-dis...-stealth-fighter-with-a-new-jet-engine-ws-21/)
I don't know how famous & credible this website is.

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Although Russian MiG official said that on 31st Oct'2012, FC-31 V1 31001 used RD-93.

another website says that on 1st July 2016, FC-31 V1 31001/PT-01 used 2 different engines together -
RD-33 + WS-13E/21. So RD-93 used for 1st flight was replaced with RD-33???
(https://inf.news/en/military/c4ef2d0ea68f1181c22ed294919a2d84.html)
So FC-31 V2 31003 may have also used the above combo or both WS-13E/21, not WS-13.

So photograph says RD-33 & Russian MiG official says RD-93, who is right?

Now the timeline looks like following -
31 Oct 2012 - FC-31 V1, black, 31001, both RD-93 engines.
1st July 2016 - FC-31 V1, black, 31001, RD-33 + WS-13E/21 engine.
December 2016 - FC-31 V2, yellow-green, 31003, [{(RD-33 or RD-93)+WS-21/13E} OR both WS-21/13E engine].
29 Oct 2021 - J-35, green, 35001, either [{(RD-33 or RD-93)+WS-21/13E} OR both WS-21/13E engine].
2022 - J-35, grey, 35003, assuming both WS-21/13E engine.
2024 - J-35, grey, 3505, assuming {both WS-21/13E or (WS-19 + WS-21/13E)} engine.
2024 - J-31 rumored, grey, no data yet for engines.

Do you wan't to make any corrections?