J-21/J-31 Chinese 5th Generation Stealth Fighter

[drkrn]

The cost of F35 is $150M ......surely J 31 will be 40~$70M dollar.. compromising something...

Nobody knows what china is up to. Either too brilliant or too dumb..
One thing for sure F35 is lot lot better than J 31
but... if you see the price tag of F35
one should look there economy..
even Norway is afraid for the program cost of F 35...

70 million usd.you should be kidding.even f-35 150 million price tag is just a new aircraft,with no spares services,and life cycle costs.it will rise steeply with all included.for 70 million usd we cant even get a new decent 4.5 g aircraft,i doubt china can make it under 70

 

[Ennie]

there must be a large military expenditure,but it all for us citizen's security.

 

[dealwithit]

70 million usd.you should be kidding.even f-35 150 million price tag is just a new aircraft,with no spares services,and life cycle costs.it will rise steeply with all included.for 70 million usd we cant even get a new decent 4.5 g aircraft,i doubt china can make it under 70

More than $70M is to heavy for J31.. F35 is totally not comparable to J31/J20...
Development of both J20/J31 should be more... No body has seen these two planes manuring gorgeously.
5 gen fighters means not only stealth....

It is just comparing Apple with china phone.. Touch is not only quality of smart phone.

But you can find customers for both phones

 

[AprilLyrics]

70 million usd.you should be kidding.even f-35 150 million price tag is just a new aircraft,with no spares services,and life cycle costs.it will rise steeply with all included.for 70 million usd we cant even get a new decent 4.5 g aircraft,i doubt china can make it under 70

or maybe china don't want to make money,but to develop its aviation industry and techs by this low cost.

 

[drkrn]

More than $70M is to heavy for J31.. F35 is totally not comparable to J31/J20...
Development of both J20/J31 should be more... No body has seen these two planes manuring gorgeously.
5 gen fighters means not only stealth....

It is just comparing Apple with china phone.. Touch is not only quality of smart phone.

But you can find customers for both phones

even if china achieves 60% of us,its great achievement
highly alarming for india.

can't comment unless something credible comes out

 

[drkrn]

or maybe china don't want to make money,but to develop its aviation industry and techs by this low cost.

china doesn't even leave a slightest possibility of making money.you can't develop aviation industry with low cost investments.
they require both time and money to mature.china knows it,probably is going in the correct direction

 

[shiphone]

Xinhua News:

The 15th Aviation Expo China kicks off at the China National Convention Center, in Beijing on Wednesday, Sept. 25, 2013. Well-known international aviation companies, including Boeing, Honeywell, Bombardier, MTU, IAE, Bell Helicopter, Motor-Sich, Esterline and AVISMA attend the expo. The expo, known as the only aviation exhibition permitted in Beijing, is a biennial event initiated in 1983. (Photo sourceeople.com.cn)

this bird seems to be some main role but got another "name" again...LOL...AMF? Project 310? J21? J31?

2013年9月25日，中国先进战斗机概念（AFC）模型首次亮相北京航展。先进多用途战斗机由中国航空工业集团公司针对未来国际军贸市场需要规划研制。（摄影 杨铁虎）

在今天开幕的北京国际航展中，中航工业展出了先进概念战机。据中航工业工作人员介绍，该款先进概念战机主要针对国际市场，目前处于概念研制阶段，用于验证隐形技术、发动机技术、先进航电系统等关键技术

AFC= Advanced Fighter Concept on The 15th Aviation Expo China, Beijing.

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bad news to this bird came that so called 'J31' was officially denied by the AVIC group which means it failed to get the nod by PLA Air Force ,and PLA Navy was not interested either...so far this project remains for International market purpose ONLY which was also confirmed by the AVIC..

人民网北京9月25日电 （闫嘉琪）在今天开幕的北京国际航展中，中航工业展出了先进概念战机。据中航工业工作人员介绍，该款先进概念战机主要针对国际市场，目前处于概念研制阶段，用于验证隐形技术、发动机技术、先进航电系统等关键技术。

　　针对该先进概念机是否就是正在试飞的歼-31的问题，工作人员做了回应，称"那只是网上的说法"ã€‚

translation: 'J31' is just the statement from the internet...

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but any way, this is still a beautiful bird...

 

[p2prada]

Yeah, no J-xx identifier means no official backing.

I thought the J-31 name came about due to the prototype being called 31001.

This would mean there is at least one or two other fifth gen projects for PLAAF and PLAN.

 

[shiphone]

yes,yes...we might have more chance to see this one in PLA Navy Aviation service than above so called AFC in the near furture... LOL

1.scaled down J20 concept...
2. single High Thrust engine(15-16 tons level)
3. main weapon bay only...

but it's too early to say more about this new project....just let's wait and see...

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this AFC's deadly weakness is the Engine again...this AFC use 2 middle thrust engine (9-10 tons level) which we had only RD93(33) and WS13 in hand...the following Advanced middle Thrust Engine project is far away( after 2020 ). but the new Hight Thrust engine for J20 Project(WS-1X) is going well .so some single Engined bird might be more realistic and timely.

AFC have not got the Backing from the PLA ,but it was fully supported by the AVIC group...SAC got enough funds form the group and tech support form the CAC and other group members(e.g. DSI design...) during the past years.
and thing's are always changing ,AFC still has the chance if any good news comes from the Aviation Engine section.

 

[p2prada]

AFC have not got the Backing from the PLA ,but it was fully supported by the AVIC group...SAC got enough funds form the group and tech support form the CAC and other group members(e.g. DSI design...) during the past years.
and thing's are always changing ,AFC still has the chance if any good news comes from the Aviation Engine section.

So WS-13 NG may be a possible contender once the RD-93 is thrown out of the project.

Yeah, any future for this aircraft as an export potential is only if it has a proper Chinese engine on it.

That scaled down J-20 for PLAN seems to be fake. A clean sheet design is a better option, especially if you plan to remove an entire engine.

 

[p2prada]

J-31 stealth fighter designed for export, says PLA admiral｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com

The J-31, China's second prototype fifth-generation stealth fighter, designed by Shenyang Aircraft Corporation, will be produced for the export market instead of for China's air force and navy, according to Admiral Zhang Zhaozhong of the PLA Navy in a People's Daily report.

While the Washington-based Strategy Page said the J-31 has the potential to become a future carrier-based stealth fighter for the PLA Navy, Zhang said it is unlikely the plane will serve aboard Chinese aircraft carriers. Unlike the J-20 designed by the Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group, the J-31 was never a development program intended for the Chinese military, Zhang said.

 

[shiphone]

So WS-13 NG may be a possible contender once the RD-93 is thrown out of the project.

Yeah, any future for this aircraft as an export potential is only if it has a proper Chinese engine on it.
.

the equivalents or copy of RD33/93 ---WS13 project is nearly ready...

the same R&D team is working on the improved varient of WS13(project code: WS13 IPE?), although the WS13 project hasn't got the big prize: Design certification.
this varient got a redesigned low pressure compressor---3-stage Low pressure instead of 4-stage, new shape of blade....the thrust is excepted to increased to more than 9 tons level

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the so called WS-13NG or the new generation of Advanced Medium thrust Engine project which started in late 1990s and was suspende for around 10 years ,has got the nod and fund to move on in 2009 or 2010. it would take another 10 years for R&D..this should be the exact and final goal of AFC's engine selection. without this new engine(thrust-weight ratio --10:1 level) and just fitted with the current Generation engine(including the improved one-----TWR 7~8 : 1), the R&D team's latest claim just said AFC was a equivalent to 4th(5th --Russian standard) Gen fighter, better than the current 3rd and 3.5 Gen fighters.

that's why this bird can't find its place in PLAAF and PLANAF...the export market is also limited.

 

[Decklander]

Looking at the fan, it seems that Chinese are on right track, they have decided to go for wide chord swept blade design right from the begining.

 

[shiphone]

such 'wide chord swept blade design' is quite common feature of the new Gen Engine projects from different AVIC group Engine R&D teams.

4700 kgs class military engine ---"MingShan" engine for L15 ,JL10 trainer

1000 kgs class military engine----"JiuZai" engine for UAV

10000Kgs class civilian engine----CJ1000A "ChangJiang" engine for C919 airliner.

 

[ersakthivel]

the equivalents or copy of RD33/93 ---WS13 project is nearly ready...

the same R&D team is working on the improved varient of WS13(project code: WS13 IPE?), although the WS13 project hasn't got the big prize: Design certification.
this varient got a redesigned low pressure compressor---3-stage Low pressure instead of 4-stage, new shape of blade....the thrust is excepted to increased to more than 9 tons level

---------------------------
the so called WS-13NG or the new generation of Advanced Medium thrust Engine project which started in late 1990s and was suspende for around 10 years ,has got the nod and fund to move on in 2009 or 2010. it would take another 10 years for R&D..this should be the exact and final goal of AFC's engine selection. without this new engine(thrust-weight ratio --10:1 level) and just fitted with the current Generation engine(including the improved one-----TWR 7~8 : 1), the R&D team's latest claim just said AFC was a equivalent to 4th(5th --Russian standard) Gen fighter, better than the current 3rd and 3.5 Gen fighters.

that's why this bird can't find its place in PLAAF and PLANAF...the export market is also limited.

So engine efforts are also at the same level of Kaveri k-9. Not certified for use yet. if I am right.

Without modern asea radars and certified engines of your own, and no info on latest 5th gen avionics like long range IRST tracking and passive detection capabilities like F-35 and

with no place in PLAF it will be tough proposition to sell this fighter in foreign market in competition to PAKFA-FGFA

other than bankrupt pakistani airforce(which bought JF-17) no other air force in the world will buy a plane which was not inducted in large numbers in manufacturing nation's air force and proved it's reliability like F-35 or FGFA-PAKFA.

By 2020 when AVIC gets any decent engine, anti stealth techniques will become so advanced that makes the prospects of this untried fighter even dimmer compared to PAKFA which would be fully matured by the time J-31 (not so any more) enters the market with no advanced avionics.

The problem for both China and India in aviation markets abroad for the immediate future will be the same, i.e lack of suitable engine.

other than the shape of vanes it is the metallurgy of blades which make the cut for engines.

 

[Defenceindia2010]

i think Pak will but this j xx

Let us know who's lending the cash, (US, SA, CHINA, UK) to finance them.

 

[shiphone]

some updates about this project...the test flights seem going on well . at least two flights have been recorded in this month(early Nov)
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some yellow color Surface Mount Type sensors(pressure sensor?) was spotted....and this helps to draw the outline of the Weapon Bay...it was said this bird had a same level of internal main weapon bay with J20 project...

 

[Armand2REP]

such 'wide chord swept blade design' is quite common feature of the new Gen Engine projects from different AVIC group Engine R&D teams.

4700 kgs class military engine ---"MingShan" engine for L15 ,JL10 trainer

1000 kgs class military engine----"JiuZai" engine for UAV

10000Kgs class civilian engine----CJ1000A "ChangJiang" engine for C919 airliner.

All these engines yet China signs agreements with foreign engine manufacturers.

 

[CCTV]

All these engines yet China signs agreements with foreign engine manufacturers.

China is the 5th largest oil producer in the world, but we still import oils.

 

[t_co]

China is the 5th largest oil producer in the world, but we still import oils.

That's a logical fallacy. Oil is fungible. Engines are not.

On the flip side, Armand is missing the point of Chinese agreements with foreign engine manufacturers. China has capital and has a development plan - so every little bit of foreign technology helps. You can bet that for everything the Chinese are getting through reverse engineering, China is getting twice or three times as much via cyber, indigenous R&D, and other sources. Internal estimates put Chinese engine mfg capability at Western levels in a decade, if not earlier.