J-21/J-31 Chinese 5th Generation Stealth Fighter

[Armand2REP]

Not necessarily. Also, having a larger AESA would increase the number of AESA modules the J-31 can fit. The J-31 won't be using a Zhuk radar once it hits LRIP in 2017 or 2018.

Yes necessarily, lower surface area = smaller return. China needs to get an AESA first to worry about it.

 

[farhan_9909]

Yes necessarily, lower surface area = smaller return. China needs to get an AESA first to worry about it.

AESA available since late 2009

heck even NRIET Render AESA was in development long back since AESA was the first demand by egypt

and also confirmed by chinese officials in singapore airshow that under a customer demand we can integrate aesa and it wont need major modifications as well

 

[t_co]

Yes necessarily, lower surface area = smaller return. China needs to get an AESA first to worry about it.

China already has the Type 1475 radar on the J-10B, which is going to get installed on the J-20. It would make sense to fit that on the J-31 as well.

 

[Armand2REP]

China already has the Type 1475 radar on the J-10B, which is going to get installed on the J-20. It would make sense to fit that on the J-31 as well.

You mean the one with the interrogators sticking out of it? If you call that AESA I call you taco.

 

[t_co]

You mean the one with the interrogators sticking out of it? If you call that AESA I call you taco.

That's the Type 1475, an AESA, mounted on the J-10B. The J-10B is in full Block 1 production, so I expect the AESA is mature.

 

[Armand2REP]

That's the Type 1475, an AESA, mounted on the J-10B. The J-10B is in full Block 1 production, so I expect the AESA is mature.

Great picture... I can really see the AESA clearly there.

 

[p2prada]

AESA for J-10 is old news. Lets move on.

J-31 is an export aircraft. Not necessary for it to carry the same production AESAs as the PLAAF birds. There could be a separate development for the same and will possibly be downgraded in order to ensure state secrets are kept safe.

 

[Impluseblade]

Dose it mean that almost all the exported planes carry downgraded equipments?

AESA for J-10 is old news. Lets move on.

J-31 is an export aircraft. Not necessary for it to carry the same production AESAs as the PLAAF birds. There could be a separate development for the same and will possibly be downgraded in order to ensure state secrets are kept safe.

 

[t_co]

AESA for J-10 is old news. Lets move on.

J-31 is an export aircraft. Not necessary for it to carry the same production AESAs as the PLAAF birds. There could be a separate development for the same and will possibly be downgraded in order to ensure state secrets are kept safe.

Fair enough, although wouldn't China want to fit its best AESAs onto its own variants of the J-31? From the twin nosewheels, it looks like this will be the standard Chinese carrier aircraft of the 2020s.

 

[p2prada]

Dose it mean that almost all the exported planes carry downgraded equipments?

China doesn't yet have a major export customer for the latest gear. Only JF-17s for PAF.

So, there is not enough information available to go for especially considering PLAAF may never buy JF-17s.

Maybe when J-10B sees its first export customer then we can talk about it since there will be more information in open source. It may form a basis for measuring up the PLAAF with other air forces.

Fair enough, although wouldn't China want to fit its best AESAs onto its own variants of the J-31? From the twin nosewheels, it looks like this will be the standard Chinese carrier aircraft of the 2020s.

Not necessary.

Just like the JF-17, this aircraft may be entirely geared towards the export market. At least according to latest official news from SAC.

We haven't seen an arrestor hook, I suppose, and the twin nose wheels may be for an entirely different reason. Until Shenyang or PLAN says otherwise we can continue to believe it is geared for export.

 

[t_co]

Just like the JF-17, this aircraft may be entirely geared towards the export market. At least according to latest official news from SAC.
Until Shenyang or PLAN says otherwise we can continue to believe it is geared for export.

From a logical perspective, that's an erroneous assumption. Why assume it's for export when SAC has not said the J-31 is only for export use?

 

[p2prada]

From a logical perspective, that's an erroneous assumption. Why assume it's for export when SAC has not said the J-31 is only for export use?

From Chinese members on this forum, they have identified that SAC confirmed the bird is for export. It isn't my assumption. Meaning SAC has not yet said anything about PLAN procuring it.

IMHO, there would be more 5th gen projects in the pipeline for PLAAF and PLAN apart from the J-20.

If India can afford two 5th gen projects, China can very well afford more than two.

 

[farhan_9909]

Export doesn't mean downgraded

Depends upon the requirement of the customer and funds

if he pays high he will get the best available

 

[p2prada]

Export doesn't mean downgraded

Depends upon the requirement of the customer and funds

if he pays high he will get the best available

Not really. When it comes to radar, there will be some modes missing, some modes will be downgraded, for eg SAR may have a 0.5m resolution on a PLAAF radar while the same may be 2m on a PAF radar. The computer system can be downgraded to process slower than a PLAAF version, or the computer itself could be an entirely different design. There could also be lesser targets tracked and engaged compared to PLAAF version.

Downgrades will exist mostly in electronics.

Then again, RAM painting may be entirely different and inferior to what's going on the PLAAF version.

Weapons can also be downgraded similar to radar where modes and seeker head can be tweaked for lesser capability compared to the PLAAF version.

F-35 will have electronics that are US specific and export specific. The EW on the F-35 is being made by two companies, one by LM for the US while the other is made by BAE for export.

It is not about paying more and getting more. It is about paying more and getting the max allowable technology that the company is allowed to sell by the govt. There will be a ceiling limit for PAF compared to what the PLAAF will get. It is the same for US, France and Russia. I'd dare say the US and the Chinese will have the most stringent rules for tech transfer compared to Russia and France.

 

[t_co]

From Chinese members on this forum, they have identified that SAC confirmed the bird is for export. It isn't my assumption. Meaning SAC has not yet said anything about PLAN procuring it.

IMHO, there would be more 5th gen projects in the pipeline for PLAAF and PLAN apart from the J-20.

If India can afford two 5th gen projects, China can very well afford more than two.

But it seems that America, Japan, Australia, Britain, Canada, and Turkey can only afford one 5th gen project, the F-35. China, India, Russia, etc. may have multiple 5th gen projects right now, but I think that as the 5th gen platforms mature, they'll have to winnow them down to one or two competitive prospects or else the escalating cost of continuing to develop multiple models will be unbearable.

 

[p2prada]

But it seems that America, Japan, Australia, Britain, Canada, and Turkey can only afford one 5th gen project, the F-35. China, India, Russia, etc. may have multiple 5th gen projects right now, but I think that as the 5th gen platforms mature, they'll have to winnow them down to one or two competitive prospects or else the escalating cost of continuing to develop multiple models will be unbearable.

Haven't you seen India and China's growth prospects by large financial corporations?

Anyway, Japan has two projects, buying F-35 and the ATD-X. Korea may end up with F-35 and KF-X too. Britain already has the EF and F-35. Turkey may join in the KF-X and will buy the F-35 as well.

Russia has four confirmed projects. PAKFA, FGFA, PAKDA and a 5th gen replacement for Su-25. A 5th gen light aircraft project may be feasible depending on how PAKFA progresses.

India has two. FGFA and AMCA.

The US will have 4 or 5 projects running simultaneously. They are done with the F-22, now they have the F-35. Two more projects are in the pipeline. One USAF project for a long range strike bomber (LRS-B) and a USN project for a 6th gen aircraft to replace SH starting from 2025. USAF is also studying a 6th gen replacement for the F-22. There will be a heavier LRS-B replacement for 2037.

IMHO, China has the J-20. J-31 for export. Apart from that there may be two different projects, one for PLAAF and the other for PLAN, or both service wings may opt for one design, like the F-35.

There are numerous lighter stealth UCAVs around. The only known programs are the American X-47B and the Indian AURA which are aimed for operational service. Both are in the F-16 weight class. Russia seems to be starting one while China may also have one or two such programs. French and British programs are aimed for a much later in service date. Turkey may have one too.

 

[SATISH]

Haven't you seen India and China's growth prospects by large financial corporations?

Anyway, Japan has two projects, buying F-35 and the ATD-X. Korea may end up with F-35 and KF-X too. Britain already has the EF and F-35. Turkey may join in the KF-X and will buy the F-35 as well.

Russia has four confirmed projects. PAKFA, FGFA, PAKDA and a 5th gen replacement for Su-25. A 5th gen light aircraft project may be feasible depending on how PAKFA progresses.

India has two. FGFA and AMCA.

The US will have 4 or 5 projects running simultaneously. They are done with the F-22, now they have the F-35. Two more projects are in the pipeline. One USAF project for a long range strike bomber (LRS-B) and a USN project for a 6th gen aircraft to replace SH starting from 2025. USAF is also studying a 6th gen replacement for the F-22. There will be a heavier LRS-B replacement for 2037.

IMHO, China has the J-20. J-31 for export. Apart from that there may be two different projects, one for PLAAF and the other for PLAN, or both service wings may opt for one design, like the F-35.

There are numerous lighter stealth UCAVs around. The only known programs are the American X-47B and the Indian AURA which are aimed for operational service. Both are in the F-16 weight class. Russia seems to be starting one while China may also have one or two such programs. French and British programs are aimed for a much later in service date. Turkey may have one too.

I think there are a lot more stealth UCAVs from europe...like dassault neuron the BAe has one and so do the Germans...also the MiG is making SKAT.

 

[p2prada]

I think there are a lot more stealth UCAVs from europe...like dassault neuron the BAe has one and so do the Germans...also the MiG is making SKAT.

SKAT was canceled from what I heard. New projects in the pipeline. Russian UAV scenario is pathetic.

Europeans are only planning demonstrators like Neuron. Nothing concrete about induction timelines.

 

[Armand2REP]

Nice pic

The fact that there's a wingtip vortex trailing off only one wing implies that wing is generating a lot more lift than the other wing is. This means the plane is exiting halfway through a turn and straight into an inverted climb, which implies that the engines are generating at least a 1 to 1 T/W ratio, or else the plane would be unable to turn upward like that.

Really? Then why is there a vortex formed on one flap on landing? According to your logic this A400M should be making loops with a 1:1 T/W ratio.

 

[Black Blood]

An air superiority variant is under development too. 31001 is primarily for PLAN.