J-21/J-31 Chinese 5th Generation Stealth Fighter

[shuvo@y2k10]

can any chinese member post the phoo of the plane made by sac which lost to j-20

 

[Black Blood]

No SAC jet ever competed against the J-20. CAC J-20 is essentially a long range, high end Air Dominance air craft while J-31 is a Multirole stealth air craft for both Navy and the Air force. PLAAF may not procure the J-20s in huge numbers, perhaps 300 or so, however if the J-31 proves its worth it may become the replacement for both the J-10A/B and the J-15/May serve alongside for some time to come until USN is operating hornets.

Strong indications are that an air superiority/multirole variant of the J-31 is under development, with strong indications of PAF willing to acquire this aircraft and may ditch the J-10B.

Variant with a bubble canopy, single wheel landing gear and side weapons bays.

Comparison

Air superiority variant J-31 CGI in PAF Camo/Emblem, flying in formation with a PAF F-16 Block-52+ Crossing the Karakoram Ranges.

 

[GromHellscream]

can any chinese member post the phoo of the plane made by sac which lost to j-20

Like this one? The credibility is unassured, especially after seeing the fourth design ...

After all, the first and second design are from CAC, while the left are from SAC.

And the ranks of each design are set aside, by evaluating maneuverability, agility, high AOA, rcs, lift power.

J20 is the second one.

 

[cir]

It's officially J-21。

 

[farhan_9909]

rumours are from chinese members that J-31/21 might be renamed to the FC-2

 

[farhan_9909]

Old picture of FC-2

 

[sayareakd]

When are Chinese going to give these fighters to Pak, so that Uncle and us got to get look inside.

remember Uncle has people all over the Pak military and on its payrole and they would love to give complete fighter to Uncle for love of money.

Remember OBL case, military doctor help them catch him. Hope his family got the reward. Heard good doctor is in jail.

 

[t_co]

When are Chinese going to give these fighters to Pak, so that Uncle and us got to get look inside.

remember Uncle has people all over the Pak military and on its payrole and they would love to give complete fighter to Uncle for love of money.

Remember OBL case, military doctor help them catch him. Hope his family got the reward. Heard good doctor is in jail.

The earliest date for J-31 exports to Pakistan will probably be sometime around 2020-2021.

 

[cir]

 

[shiphone]

the jet logs 3 more flights these days, which one on Jan 26 and two today...

pic source: CD

 

[cir]

J-21 trial flights progressing nicely：

 

[cinoti]

J31 new year test fly

It is an educated assumption that the J31 is for shipborne.

 

[cinoti]

J-21 trial flights progressing nicely：

Landing gear retrieved means ready for high speed testing.

 

[arnabmit]

Isn't J-31 a bigger threat to India than J-20?

Once deployed in Liaoning and others, won't PLAN have the complete upper hand against Vikramaditya & IAC's MiG-29Ks?

AMCA is too far away... Would this force India to go for F-35s?

I am a complete noob in these matters, please tell me...

@Decklander @p2prada @ersakthivel

 

[ersakthivel]

Isn't J-31 a bigger threat to India than J-20?

Once deployed in Liaoning and others, won't PLAN have the complete upper hand against Vikramaditya & IAC's MiG-29Ks?

AMCA is too far away... Would this force India to go for F-35s?

I am a complete noob in these matters, please tell me...

@Decklander @p2prada @ersakthivel

to counter that India should go for fully stealth LCA mk-3 with twin engines (two kaveri, K-9 later to be replaced by k-10)and an internal bomb bays.

As most of the aerodynamic design specs of the Tejas wing is fully validated all that needs to be done is to expand on the LCA mk-2 just as the US expanded on F-16 design to produce F-16 XL version.

In our case by redesigning the cockpit to conform to a stealth mode(not a tough tech challenge) , increasing the width and length of the airframe to cater to internal bomb bays and twin engines the concept is easily doable as it will massively cut short the devlopmental time frame before the arrival of AMCA.

If fuselage lengthening is done proportionately leaving the CG and the CL with minor changes cutting out the extensive reworking of Control laws for the FBW based RSS platform, we will have a fighter similar to the design specs of Tejas mk-2 in our hands cutting out more than 15 years of torturous green field new design, FSED,TD,PV and LSP building as tejas mk-3 will take a lot of design cues form tejas mk-2.And it will do justice do the 15 year hard work put in for LCA Tejas too.

But unfortunately Setting fancy futuristic ASR specs and sinking the project into unending delays seem to be the hall mark of our higher defence officials. Philip Rajkumar said in his book on LCA '"We should not allow the Best to become the enemy of Good".

Since AMCA and FGFA are entering with whatever specs needed by IAF, this project should be allowed to evolve naturally, as the russians naturally evolved the aerodynamically superior SU-30 MKI Flanker design into their 5th gen version called FGFA or PAKFA . A usable product within a reasonable time frame to keep the production lines running and money rolling , keeping their aero space industry at cutting edge.Compare that to the torturous 10 year time frame IAF took to finalize the ASR for AMCA as late as 2012, only after the two chinese 5th gen designs took their test flights!!!!!!!!

While the chinese are bold enough to evolve the 5th gen design of other nations which involves massive risks as they will not be privy to the design philosophy behind them, we should not be nedlessly splitting our hair over the decision to evolve our own 4.5th gen design into 5th gen.But such common sense is a rarity in Indian defence set up which is riddled with corruption , pliant to pulls and pushes of foreign equipment makers.And our defence ministers are not bright enough too.



All major nations have undertaken two or more 5th gen stealth fighter programs at the same time. We already lost out by not developing a concurrent twin engined MMRCA type fighter along with Tejas mk-1, that is the reason why we are going to shell out 20 billion dollars for RAFLEs which incidentally have the same engine output of 75 Kn for each engine equal to K-9.

You can't bet on Airforce to adapt such pragmatic approach as they are spoilt with boys toys from russia in the form of FGFA, but you can bet on Navy to do that as no one will burn their midnight oil to give indian navy a customized fighter like the ADA is willing to do.

I have once posted that we will be forced to buy F-35 to conter the chinese carrier borne 5th gen stealths. But that doesnot seems like a well thought out option.


F-35 has horrible performance specs . It's only USP is stealth to X band radar. This stealth cover is already blown by more than 80 percent with the combo L band ASEA radar and increasingly lethal IRST systems .

So it doesn't do justice to spend 10 or more billions to import a watered down export version of F-35, whose effectiveness in close combat is spurious to say the least.

 

[p2prada]

Isn't J-31 a bigger threat to India than J-20?

Once deployed in Liaoning and others, won't PLAN have the complete upper hand against Vikramaditya & IAC's MiG-29Ks?

AMCA is too far away... Would this force India to go for F-35s?

I am a complete noob in these matters, please tell me...

J-31 is a threat only if PLAN is able to operate in the IOR. As of today that is a big IF. Too many USN and IN ships in the area.

J-20 is the bigger threat if the project is a success because of the potential numbers and soft borders. A squadron or two of J-31 poses lesser danger than 10 or more squadrons of J-20. More importantly, J-20 is a fully funded PLAAF project, while J-31 may require foreign funding to continue, from countries like Pakistan or any other.

Liaoning won't deploy J-31, it will deploy J-15. Any future carrier that they are building "may" carry J-31. There is a chance PLAN may have its own project for 5th gen fighters because J-31 is confirmed as an export aircraft. Whether PLAn is interested in J-31 or not, we don't know. J-31 has the same status as JF-17, meaning PLAAF and PLAN may never buy it.

F-35/Rafale, we will see. IN sent out RFIs in 2009 for a MRCA fighter. Let's see if this translates into a RFP in the future. An MRCA requirement outside of the Mig-29K program exists.

 

[shiphone]

some update of this project that the future remains problematic.source: CHINA'S FORUM

but after the April, the flight test seems speed up...some shots was taken when this bird in landing gear up statuse

 

[arnabmit]

China hopes to snatch sales from US with J-31 4th-generation fighter jet | idrw.org

Huanqiu.com says in an article by its special military commentator Lei Ze, "In the afternoon of August 23, test flight of the J-31 'Gyrfalcon' fourth-generation stealth fighter was carried out again.

Sources say that recently the fighter has been tested with unusually great frequency. The said the test flight followed those on August 8 and 18. Compared with only one test flight in July, the frequency of the J-31 test flights has significantly increased."

The emergence of the J-31 fighter jet will make it difficult for the US to make money by exporting its F-35 fighters. Hong Kong's Singtao Daily points out: At present, Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Australia and other countries have all purchased US F-35 fighter jets, but the occurrence of one fault and technical problem after another in the test flights of the F-35 has given rise to worries and even dissatisfaction among those countries.

The stealth fighter is a milestone in the world history of military aviation. It is of great strategic importance in the international relations and geopolitical strategic situation in the Asian-Pacific region. China's development of stealth fighters has to some extent become an important phase of the Sino-US strategic game.

In December 2011, in order to counter the rapid development of the Chinese air force, Japan ordered 42 F-35As in spite of the high price of US$150 million per fighter. However, at the same time, the UK delayed its decision on purchase of the F-35s to 2015, while Italy reduced its purchase from 131 to 90. Canada said that it would order 60 F-35s, but no firm order has yet been placed.

Experts in the industry expect that when the J-20 and J-31 are launched on the international market, undoubtedly they will take away some market share from the F-35, as it will provide a new option for those countries who have not made a decision on purchase of the F-35. They will be especially attractive to those countries that the US is unwilling to export weapons to.

The Wall Street Journal said in its report on November 11, 2012 that China's aviation industry was as advanced as Russia's in many areas except jet engines. Increase of Chinese export of aircrafts will greatly injure Moscow's interests.

Huanqiu.com says: "The US media finally exclaimed: 'The test flights of the J-31 indicate China has finally become the only country other than the US that is developing two types of stealth fighters. This is a development of great significance. It may have profound repercussions on the export market of static aircraft and US troops.'"

What is more troublesome for the US is that once the J-31 has equivalent performance as the F-35, it no longer makes sense to purchase expensive F-35s. Undoubtedly, the emergence of China's fourth-generation fighters represented by the J-31 will be the "Hiroshima nuclear explosion" in the world weapon market. It will dislocate the existing setup of international weapon trade, entirely change the division of labour in the world weapon industry and put an end to the US monopoly of high-end fighter market.

Source: mil.huanqiu.com "Frequent test flights of J-31: China develops 4th-generation fighters to snatch market from the US" by huanqiu.com special military commentator Lei Ze (excerpt and summary translated from Chinese by Chan Kai Yee)

 

[drkrn]

China hopes to snatch sales from US with J-31 4th-generation fighter jet | idrw.org

Huanqiu.com says in an article by its special military commentator Lei Ze, "In the afternoon of August 23, test flight of the J-31 'Gyrfalcon' fourth-generation stealth fighter was carried out again.

Sources say that recently the fighter has been tested with unusually great frequency. The said the test flight followed those on August 8 and 18. Compared with only one test flight in July, the frequency of the J-31 test flights has significantly increased."

The emergence of the J-31 fighter jet will make it difficult for the US to make money by exporting its F-35 fighters. Hong Kong's Singtao Daily points out: At present, Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Australia and other countries have all purchased US F-35 fighter jets, but the occurrence of one fault and technical problem after another in the test flights of the F-35 has given rise to worries and even dissatisfaction among those countries.

The stealth fighter is a milestone in the world history of military aviation. It is of great strategic importance in the international relations and geopolitical strategic situation in the Asian-Pacific region. China's development of stealth fighters has to some extent become an important phase of the Sino-US strategic game.

In December 2011, in order to counter the rapid development of the Chinese air force, Japan ordered 42 F-35As in spite of the high price of US$150 million per fighter. However, at the same time, the UK delayed its decision on purchase of the F-35s to 2015, while Italy reduced its purchase from 131 to 90. Canada said that it would order 60 F-35s, but no firm order has yet been placed.

Experts in the industry expect that when the J-20 and J-31 are launched on the international market, undoubtedly they will take away some market share from the F-35, as it will provide a new option for those countries who have not made a decision on purchase of the F-35. They will be especially attractive to those countries that the US is unwilling to export weapons to.

The Wall Street Journal said in its report on November 11, 2012 that China's aviation industry was as advanced as Russia's in many areas except jet engines. Increase of Chinese export of aircrafts will greatly injure Moscow's interests.

Huanqiu.com says: "The US media finally exclaimed: 'The test flights of the J-31 indicate China has finally become the only country other than the US that is developing two types of stealth fighters. This is a development of great significance. It may have profound repercussions on the export market of static aircraft and US troops.'"

What is more troublesome for the US is that once the J-31 has equivalent performance as the F-35, it no longer makes sense to purchase expensive F-35s. Undoubtedly, the emergence of China's fourth-generation fighters represented by the J-31 will be the "Hiroshima nuclear explosion" in the world weapon market. It will dislocate the existing setup of international weapon trade, entirely change the division of labour in the world weapon industry and put an end to the US monopoly of high-end fighter market.

Source: mil.huanqiu.com "Frequent test flights of J-31: China develops 4th-generation fighters to snatch market from the US" by huanqiu.com special military commentator Lei Ze (excerpt and summary translated from Chinese by Chan Kai Yee)

so which us customers buying f-35 will turn to j-31?
any other customers except pakistan
any insight/speculation about cost

 

[dealwithit]

The cost of F35 is $150M ......surely J 31 will be 40~$70M dollar.. compromising something...

Nobody knows what china is up to. Either too brilliant or too dumb..
One thing for sure F35 is lot lot better than J 31
but... if you see the price tag of F35
one should look there economy..
even Norway is afraid for the program cost of F 35...