ISRO General News and Updates

[jai jaganath]

Tinfoil hat: Gaganyaan is not on track and we have hit a technological hurdle. This 'way out' has been offered to modi as a diplomatic carrot so he can fulfill his promise of sending Indian astronaut to space.

Ofcourse I remember reading in newspaper in my school India in space by 2020
Forget it
In such projects delays happen especially when u are completely new
U have to master the tech and isro is doing it very persistently
And definitely gaganyaan will be completed atleast by 2025
Let's see

 

[Tvashtr8202]

No, when you ask an industry to make a bolt by a specific process & in specific design standard, you are not giving any technology to them. You are just ensuring that you can use same type of parts in theirs and yours rocket parts.

Building a complete aircraft or launch system is a longer game.
And similar design for docking ports is a too obvious thing to mention. It has been ongoing for decades.

MIDHANI just got a contract to supply Titanium Rings to SpaceX. Yet they can also provide similar services to ISRO without the need for standardization.

When you talk about Standard Lanuch System. Then the discussion doesn't just stay confined to bolts & rings, it gets to rocket engines, propellants. Even the composition of alloys & designs for the pressurized cryogenic tanks.

It takes billions of dollars for USA to test these equipments. And they don't even allowed anyone other than US citizen to work in their public & private space agencies.

With out USA directly providing the designs, material & data to partner nations, how suppose are we gonna build these "Standard Lanuch System"

No, Artemis Accords don't even remotely advocate any kind of LEMOA/COMCASA pact. They don't ask you to replace or indirectly encourage foreign launchers over yours.

They don't consent to use each other's bases or sharing tech. They ask for sharing of scientific findings what NASA, ESA, ISRO and JAXA have already been sharing with each other for long without a problem.

Basically, Artemis Accords barely make any difference. They are just non-binding agreements for good gesture.

When I am bring in the analogy of the Pacts I am citing these particular clause of Artemis Accord.

• Call for a commitment to take all reasonable efforts to render necessary assistance to personnel in outer space who are in distress and according to their obligations under the Rescue and Return Agreement. - Obviously not a problem
• Specify responsibility for the registration of objects in space, as required by the Registration Convention - Already in practice by entire world
• Call for a commitment to publicly share information on their activities and to the open sharing of scientific data. While doing so, signatories agree to coordinate with each other to provide appropriate protection for any proprietary and/or export-controlled information, and this provision does not extend to private sector operations unless conducted on behalf of a signatory. - Not a problem

These sure sounds like Logistics sharing & communication agreements.

If under Artemis Accord we have to provide our services for saving stranded US astronauts. Then it's nothing but a logistics sharing pact.

This doesn't always need to translate to sharing lauch pads.

 

[Vamsi]

Tinfoil hat: Gaganyaan is not on track and we have hit a technological hurdle. This 'way out' has been offered to modi as a diplomatic carrot so he can fulfill his promise of sending Indian astronaut to space.

Bullshit, everyone knew that Gaganyaan won't happen by 2022 from the day 1, just because its delayed doesn't mean,it had hit a technological hurdle....Chinese approved their Human space program in 1991 & had their 1st unmanned flight only in 1999 & manned mission in 2003, 12 years after approval & here you expect ISRO to complete within 4 years after approval !

ISRO is developing indigenous ECLSS, they went to Russians,French, they quoted heavy price, hence they choose indigenous route, this is the reason for delay, & Gaganayaan-1 with this indigenous ECLSS will fly in Early 2024... so, ISRO is doing perfectly fine, stop your assumptions

 

[Indx TechStyle]

MIDHANI just got a contract to supply Titanium Rings to SpaceX. Yet they can also provide similar services to ISRO without the need for standardization.

When you talk about Standard Lanuch System. Then the discussion doesn't just stay confined to bolts & rings, it gets to rocket engines, propellants. Even the composition of alloys & designs for the pressurized cryogenic tanks.

Have you ever worked in any Engineering capacity?
Standardisation is worked upon for making standard size of small components from bolts to bearings, shafts and their welding & semiconductor/communication frequencies etc.. Final assembly is of producing countries own design.

A whole rocket engine or propellant for world is never going to be standardised. There can be some limits set about pollution scale though (which are not yet in place). It is all about technology and headache of country who knows how to make a rocket.

It takes billions of dollars for USA to test these equipments. And they don't even allowed anyone other than US citizen to work in their public & private space agencies.

With out USA directly providing the designs, material & data to partner nations, how suppose are we gonna build these "Standard Lanuch System"

Engineering testing is done in Indian standards too before commissioning item in service.

US may write any standard catalogue for alloy composition useful for countries with launch technologies.

Signing this treaty isn't an obligation to use them anyway. So, India isn't obligated to import American alloys if doesn't produce at home.

If US doesn't transfer metallurgy, it won't be produced and used and things will move on per Indian specs. If it does, we get something new to learn. Simple is that.

Added above all, no talk has been initiated regarding that and standardisation is just a proposal, all your concerns are hollow.

These sure sounds like Logistics sharing & communication agreements.

If under Artemis Accord we have to provide our services for saving stranded US astronauts. Then it's nothing but a logistics sharing pact.

This doesn't always need to translate to sharing lauch pads.

Logistics agreements would be about supplies to ISS etc. which aren't there. Human space program hasn't reached naval military scale and hence nothing comparable to Logistics Agreement is possible.

Support of stranded Astronauts of US or any other country will be happily done by any country in world including Russia & China without signing an agreement since that's a Goodwill.
And as told before, ISRO has been long dependent upon communication and research provided by NASA & ESA for our deep space missions and so do we. Sharing of scientific findings between ISRO, NASA & ESA is a redundant pact.

So, an agreement for cargo supply to space station or sharing launch pads is required AT LEAST to call it a logistics supply agreement.

 

[Tvashtr8202]

Have you ever worked in any Engineering capacity?
Standardisation is worked upon for making standard size of small components from bolts to bearings, shafts and their welding & semiconductor/communication frequencies etc.. Final assembly is of producing countries own design.

A whole rocket engine or propellant for world is never going to be standardised. There can be some limits set about pollution scale though (which are not yet in place). It is all about technology and headache of country who knows how to make a rocket.


Engineering testing is done in Indian standards too before commissioning item in service.

US may write any standard catalogue for alloy composition useful for countries with launch technologies.

Signing this treaty isn't an obligation to use them anyway. So, India isn't obligated to import American alloys if doesn't produce at home.

If US doesn't transfer metallurgy, it won't be produced and used and things will move on per Indian specs. If it does, we get something new to learn. Simple is that.

You literally said that a Standard launch system will be established eventually for the member nations including production of spacecraft parts.

Your own quote

Subsequent detailed agreements include production of standardised launch system and spacecraft parts

Now You tell me how will the member countries actually build the Standard Lanuch System without having access to US technically in the 1st place.

If they have to make do with what ever they have or develop their own technology for it. Then there is no way a Standard Lanuch System can be established.

Moreover a Standard launch system would put the member nations at par with US in terms of lauch capacity in tonnage.

Then what advantage will US be holding against these nations whose Space budget is only a fraction of them. This goes against their own interests.

It is completely unrealistic in my opinion.

Support of stranded Astronauts of US or any other country will be happily done by any country in world including Russia & China without signing an agreement since that's a Goodwill.

Something like this can never happen, before having agreement like Artemis Accord or similar pacts in place.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

You literally said that a Standard launch system will be established eventually for the member nations including production of spacecraft parts.

Your own quote

My own quote doesn't disagree with me.

Subsequent detailed agreements include production of standardised launch system and spacecraft parts

I don't wish to spoon feed anyone that "parts" is applicable for both terms as well as an obvious thing when we "standardise" launch systems, that doesn't mean using same rocket around the world but subcomponents. Not even stages or engines.

Standardisation means interchangeability of parts. And added, there are various levels too also for it, yet to be defined in these accords.

Now You tell me how will the member countries actually build the Standard Lanuch System without having access to US technically in the 1st place.

Do you understand the meaning of word "standardisation"?
Rocket standardisation isn't a "rocket science".

It rather means mutually agreeing to a single set of specifications for use around world.
Example, size of ports for interconnection so that US and Indian space stations and crew modules can dock with each other whenever required.

For instance, a 6 mm bolt is to be used in solid rocket booster, then it is same around world so you can get from anywhere in world when you are short of production.

If they have to make do with what ever they have or develop their own technology for it. Then there is no way a Standard Lanuch System can be established.

Off course, Standardisationn is about production and not technology.
Countries which already have full launch capabilities will gain benefit of increasing their scale of activities.

Countries trying to develop systems will have engineering tasks reduced due to availability of accepted standard components.

Moreover a Standard launch system would put the member nations at par with US in terms of lauch capacity in tonnage.

Then what advantage will US be holding against these nations whose Space budget is only a fraction of them. This goes against their own interests.

It is completely unrealistic in my opinion.

Nullified argument as per your misinterpretation

Something like this can never happen, before having agreement like Artemis Accord or similar pacts in place.

No, humanitarian help doesn't need any agreement. Even militaries of worst enemies on Earth do it all the time.

If an astronaut is stranded in space, any country who is capable will help them regardless of agreement or foreign relations. It's logistics supply like space station cargo or satellite refueling for each other what required agreement.

 

[Vamsi]

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[Anandhu Krishna]

we get ghanta out of this, we will hitch share ride on Orion or Crew Dragon, Mudi jee will parade those astronauts claiming that we landed on moon , it will be all good for optics, but in reality it will only kill our indigenous Human Spaceflight programme, we won't have our own spacestation, we won't have indigenous crewed moon mission. Everything will end. It is one of the worst decisions taken by Maulana.

Nothing will happen, this all tamasha during just US visit. Dont worry.

Joint mission to ISS doesn't mean we quit our own space station

When ever space travel becomes normal some will dominate it like Boeing and Air Bus today. Americans don't want that to be anyone else. More importantly space resources. If US or US and China are the only ones that can control space resources, what do you think that will do.

Modi looking for PR with "Sending Indian to Space". He wanted to do it with ISRO but ISRO couldn't do it before 2024 elections. Obviously Mudi cares more about his PR.

 

[Tvashtr8202]

"parts" is applicable for both terms as well as an obvious thing when we "standardise" launch systems, that doesn't mean using same rocket around the world but subcomponents. Not even stages or engines.

Standardisation means interchangeability of parts. And added, there are various levels too also for it, yet to be defined in these accords.

It rather means mutually agreeing to a single set of specifications for use around world.
Example, size of ports for interconnection so that US and Indian space stations and crew modules can dock with each other whenever required.

By Standard Lanuch System one means a base Rocket design operated by members states.

(You Google Standard Launch System, it wouldn't show you nuts & bults. It is gonna show you Standard Rocket designs)

Using your logic the standardization would not even exceed the level of Nut & bolts, docking ports & minial parts. And in that regard it cannot be called a Standard Launch System by any means.

I suppore you yourself downgraded your own login to nuts & bolts simply to suit your own argument. And nothing else.

Example, size of ports for interconnection so that US and Indian space stations and crew modules can dock with each other whenever required.

Your literally trying to use my argument to defend your statement which your tried to brush aside in your previous statement.

Building a complete aircraft or launch system is a longer game.

Building a complete aircraft or launch system
(in collaboration with the US) is a longer game ?

In all earnest means you were implying India & US would be builting a common Launch System to carry out their mission in distant future, because of the Artemis Accord. Which I have already said that is never going to happen. Because of this reason.

A Standard launch system would put the member nations at par with US in terms of lauch capacity in tonnage.

Then what advantage will US be holding against these nations whose Space budget is only a fraction of them. This goes against their own interests.

Your argument nullifies itself because of Shifting Goal Posts

 

[Indx TechStyle]

By Standard Lanuch System one means a base Rocket design operated by members states.

(You Google Standard Launch System, it wouldn't show you nuts & bults. It is gonna show you Standard Rocket designs)

Using your logic the standardization would not even exceed the level of Nut & bolts, docking ports & minial parts. And in that regard it cannot be called a Standard Launch System by any means.

I suppore you yourself downgraded your own login to nuts & bolts simply to suit your own argument. And nothing else.

As told before, I don't have to spoon feed you what standardisation of launch systems would mean at international levels nor does my quote defies it (even if you lacked ability to comprehend it and now conveniently escaping that too by turning the discussion into personal conflict).
Subsequent detailed agreements include production of standardised launch system and spacecraft parts

You certainly started to type response without even reading the post.

Your literally trying to use my argument to defend your statement which your tried to brush aside in your previous statement.

No, I didn't deny about standardisation of ports but certainly building of American launchers.

Building a complete aircraft or launch system
(in collaboration with the US) is a longer game ?

Off course, most countries can produce metals tools, only 7 are able to turn them into meaningful rockets.

In all earnest means you were implying India & US would be builting a common Launch System to carry out their mission in distant future, because of the Artemis Accord. Which I have already said that is never going to happen. Because of this reason

Show me the quote where I implied same.
This quoted post is your own synthesized nonsense which gave rise to this argument at first place.

A Standard launch system would put the member nations at par with US in terms of lauch capacity in tonnage.

Then what advantage will US be holding against these nations whose Space budget is only a fraction of them. This goes against their own interests.

LOL

Your argument nullifies itself because of Shifting Goal Posts

Neither I shifted any goalpost nor I had any goal. Argument began to defy your unfound doubts. They are lying buried in a corner, you are arguing me for something you don't know about and your concerns which were conveniently answered aren't a topic for you now.

 

[Tvashtr8202]

As told before, I don't have to spoon feed you what standardisation of launch systems would mean at international levels nor does my quote defies it (even if you lacked ability to comprehend it and now conveniently escaping that too by turning the discussion into personal conflict).
Subsequent detailed agreements include production of standardised launch system and spacecraft parts

You certainly started to type response without even reading the post.

No, I didn't deny about standardisation of ports but certainly building of American launchers.

Off course, most countries can produce metals tools, only 7 are able to turn them into meaningful rockets.

Show me the quote where I implied same.
This quoted post is your own synthesized nonsense which gave rise to this argument at first place.

LOL

Neither I shifted any goalpost nor I had any goal. Argument began to defy your unfound doubts. They are lying buried in a corner, you are arguing me for something you don't know about and your concerns which were conveniently answered aren't a topic for you now.

Your saying exactly the same thing as I did in my first post.

My 1st statement

Most probably the Standard space-based infrastructure would mean, similar designs for docking ports or sensors in the satellite/crew module. To help in interoperability among the signatory Space Agencies

Your subsequent statement.

Example, size of ports for interconnection so that US and Indian space stations and crew modules can dock with each other whenever required.

For instance, a 6 mm bolt is to be used in solid rocket booster, then it is same around world so you can get from anywhere in world when you are short of production.

I don't know where there is disagreement. Instead of trying to prove me wrong. If you could have simply agreed that we are on the same page in this regard. This entire conversation could have been avoided.

 

[Vamsi]

Unfortunately its official- Official statement from White House
They welcomed the decision of NASA and ISRO to develop a strategic framework for human spaceflight cooperation by the end of 2023.The leaders hailed the announcement by NASA to provide advanced training to Indian astronauts at the Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas, with a goal of mounting a joint effort to the International Space Station in 2024. President Biden deeply appreciated India’s signing of the Artemis Accords, which advance a common vision of space exploration for the benefit of all humankind.

get ready for sabotage or repeated delays of Gaganyaan

 

[SKC]

Unfortunately its official- Official statement from White House
They welcomed the decision of NASA and ISRO to develop a strategic framework for human spaceflight cooperation by the end of 2023.The leaders hailed the announcement by NASA to provide advanced training to Indian astronauts at the Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas, with a goal of mounting a joint effort to the International Space Station in 2024. President Biden deeply appreciated India’s signing of the Artemis Accords, which advance a common vision of space exploration for the benefit of all humankind.

get ready for sabotage or repeated delays of Gaganyaan

You are making a too big of issue out of this.

I have no problem with associations with other nations in Space and Scient.

It not end to our space program. Our gaganyan is not competiting with US human spaceflight program.

They are miles and miles ahead of us and there is no catching them any time soon not even 50 yrs from now.

 

[Vamsi]

You are making a too big of issue out of this.

I have no problem with associations with other nations in Space and Scient.

It not end to our space program. Our gaganyan is not competiting with US human spaceflight program.

They are miles and miles ahead of us and there is no catching them any time soon not even 50 yrs from now.

We are not competing with muricans when we started our cryo project, yet they sabotaged it. This is also same no different

 

[SKC]

We are not competing with muricans when we started our cryo project, yet they sabotaged it. This is also same no different

Ofcourse they did that.
What are your worried of now?

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Unfortunately its official- Official statement from White House
They welcomed the decision of NASA and ISRO to develop a strategic framework for human spaceflight cooperation by the end of 2023.The leaders hailed the announcement by NASA to provide advanced training to Indian astronauts at the Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas, with a goal of mounting a joint effort to the International Space Station in 2024. President Biden deeply appreciated India’s signing of the Artemis Accords, which advance a common vision of space exploration for the benefit of all humankind.

get ready for sabotage or repeated delays of Gaganyaan

It is rather to be interpreted as Indian Astronauts trained on ISS will fly on Gaganyaan.

We are not competing with muricans when we started our cryo project, yet they sabotaged it. This is also same no different

There is a huge difference in strategic utilities of cryo and Gaganyaan.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

There will be no improvement in timeline of Gaganyaan and Indian space station even if collab with US didn't go ahead. Sooner people realise it, better for them.

 

[SKC]

We are not competing with muricans when we started our cryo project, yet they sabotaged it. This is also same no different

For Astranaught training your have two options:
Russian 'Start City' or US "On-Site" training in ISS!

 

[Vamsi]

There will be no improvement in timeline of Gaganyaan and Indian space station even if collab with US didn't go ahead. Sooner people realise it, better for them.

Ofcourse they did that.
What are your worried of now?

US collab will only delay gaganyaan further, don't forget what happened to European & Japanese Human Space Programs

 

[Vamsi]

For Astranaught training your have two options:
Russian 'Start City' or US "On-Site" training in ISS!

Even for "On-Site" training you need to have ground training first