Is the tank becoming obsolete?

Bhadra

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Maybe it is time for people to read Brig Richard Simpkin's RACE TO THE SWIFT to understand the modern battlefield.

That apart, the Armoured Corps is a manoeuvre arm.

Yes there are fighting encounters with Tanks, but it is generally used, to put it simplistically, to manoeuvre on the principle of Hammer and Anvil.

I absolutely agree with you, sir.
One can make out from the contents of the posts, what understanding exists about armour and the art of using it when someone acclaims role of armour in Road protection from Gandarbal to Blatal and then one tank being taken to Zozila in knocked down condition and claiming victory at Zozilla because of that tank !!

Some comments are based on some stereotype myths and others simply without role and employment of tanks.

One may Read :

The Indirect Approach by Basil Liddell-Hart
Ferdinand Foch Des Principes de la Guerre ('On the Principles of War')
Sun Tzu's The Art of Strategy or Art of War
Boyd's and Lind's theories of OODA loop (Manoeuvre Warfare Handbook)
Richard Simpkin's Race to the Swift
FMFM-1 'War fighting'
 
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santosh10

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In Indian history, any war would be unthinkable without horses and elephants .. which ultimately proved the cause of their defeat in the absence of solid drilled infantry...

Tanks simply replaced horses and I am contemplating like many others that something will replaces those behemoths of 45 tons and above of expensive steel ..

I was awe struck when I had the first look at Strykers in Hawai with amazing firepower, lightness and their mobility. I thought the American had found the via media.


The question that is not being appreciated here is that :

Tanks and armor have certain characteristics : For example speed, mobility, shock action, fire power etc etc. Well do we have a weapon system at hand in the world which surpasses these qualities and characteristics of tanks? The answer may be yes..

Tank are synonymous with the concept of warfare called " maneuver warfare" though they originated to overcome the static nature of trench warfare.. The sole existence of tanks in second world war and afterwards has been dominated by this doctrine of "maneuver" as expounded by Liddell Hart to Richard Simpkin , taking all cues and help from Tsun Tzu and trying to prove how they can attain the strategy and tactics of Tsun Tzu by employing tanks in maneuver.

The Maneuver warfare has been at the heart of the rational and justification for existence of tanks so far. However, after 1967 Arab Israeli war there has been no maneuvers by tanks but the maneuver warfare had been taken over by helicopters and now the drones.

The novice in the forums are justifying existence of tanks for which were never developed or meant - such as urban warfare.

Stalingrad was the end of use of tanks in Urban environment as was the battle of Krusk the last time when tanks would be used to break in the hard defenses.

Showing tanks being used by the ISIS etc in the terrorist manner betrays ones understanding of the weapon called tank.
a good comment......

and yes, Indian history is all about using elephants as the main arm, and then the horse riders comes on their back :ranger:
 

sorcerer

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The newest American tanks arrived at the American military base in Bavaria on January 31. So what? According to the statements made by American military officials, 29 heavy new generation Abrams tanks would be a part of the European Activity Set (EAS). They are supposedly just to serve as equipment for the training center.

The appearance of the tanks is explained by the fact that at a time when the American command has decided to continue training American tank personnel in Europe, they had nothing to train them on. In the course of reducing the US military presence in Europe the last tank brigade was disbanded and all tanks sent back to the US. And now less than a year later a new generation of Abrams tanks has been shipped back to Europe. But now it is exclusively to strengthen the military cooperation with the European colleagues...

In the spacious grounds and shooting ranges of the Joint Multinational Training Command (JMTC) at the US Tower Barracks military base in Grafenwöhr, military personnel from all over Europe have been trained there for many years. Why couldn't the American military be trained at the American base? According to Colonel Thomas Matsel from the JMTC operations unit, "with the help of the EAS our regiments will have access to the whole spectrum of military operations that they potentially would have to conduct".

The issue of a military equipment deficit in Europe is naturally an internal issue of the US and Europe's NATO institutions. But the US has demonstrated a special interest towards a specific part of that "spectrum" - to the NATO Response Force. According to the American military, the "European set" created by them is to "give a new life to the US involvement in the NATO Response Force".

Last fall Anders Fogh Rasmussen, Secretary General of NATO, explained what the NATO Response Force was. "The NATO Response Force is units of fast response, the tip of the spear of the North Atlantic Alliance - ... capable of guaranteeing the defense of any member-state, capable of being deployed in any place and to withstand any threat". On rotation basis the member states allocated their military contingents to that force for a period of one year. It is a natural and plausible intent. But it turns out that as of late not only NATO countries are looking to guarantee the defense of the member states.

In 2014 Sweden, Finland and Ukraine will allocate their military contingents to the NATO Response Force, while in 2015 Georgia has offered to join the rotation of the response forces. The largest stages of last year's military exercises in November 2013 took place in Latvia and Poland. This year four large-scale exercises are planned in the same locations. "Keeping the tip in a sharp and ready condition" (as the NATO Secretary General defined the task of the exercises) is taking place in the European theater of military operations and oftentimes next to Russia's borders. Is it possible that now the problems of the European defense will be resolved not only with the help of American missile defense systems, but also with American tanks?

It appears that the suspicions that come to the minds of the conspiracy theory advocates would be dissolved by the format of the "American set". The battalion and the elements of the higher-ranking command and control staff could hardly be considered a large-scale force. But it turns out that the Americans have also developed their own very peculiar rotation scheme. The First Team, the name of the US 1st Cavalry Division, the tank personnel of which served the first term in Germany, precisely reflects the future plans of the pentagon. The tank personnel from other units will replace the battalion of the First Team. And their rotation will take place much more frequently than once a year.

In the US people also agree that the military games of the current period increasingly remind one of the lavish years of the Cold War. While commenting on the return of American tanks to Germany, Michael Darnell of the Stars and Stripes newspaper points out: "When the 22 M1A1 Abrams departed the continent it was seen as the end of an era"¦ Now, it appears that chapter of history may have been closed a bit prematurely".

So USA thinks that when countries share close borders they would require solid defence via tanks!
 

Bhadra

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The newest American tanks arrived at the American military base in Bavaria on January 31. So what? According to the statements made by American military officials, 29 heavy new generation Abrams tanks would be a part of the European Activity Set (EAS). They are supposedly just to serve as equipment for the training center.

The appearance of the tanks is explained by the fact that at a time when the American command has decided to continue training American tank personnel in Europe, they had nothing to train them on. In the course of reducing the US military presence in Europe the last tank brigade was disbanded and all tanks sent back to the US. And now less than a year later a new generation of Abrams tanks has been shipped back to Europe. But now it is exclusively to strengthen the military cooperation with the European colleagues...

What a sorry state of affairs of US and other tanks in NATO theatre.

The following gives the number of armoured formations and tank strength as of 1981/1982 for USA:

Cold War tank formations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Grand Total: 30,711+ Tanks

*********************

USA




A M60A3 in Langgöns, Germany




M1A1Formations4 Tank Divisions
6 Mechanized Divisions
4 Infantry Divisions
1 Airborne Division (incl. 1 Tank Battalion)
1 independent Tank Brigade
4 independent Infantry Brigades
3 Cavalry Regiments (Reconnaissance)
3 Tank Battalions Marines
? Tank Battalions National Guard (Reserve)
Number of tanks1,825 M48A5 MBT
1,555 M60 MBT
5,775 M60A1 MBT
540 M60A2 MBT
1,500 M60A3 MBT
150 M1 Abrams MBT
400 M551 Sheridan AR/AAV (330 for training purposes)
575 M60A1 MBT with the Marines

Total: 12,320 tanks (min. 330 for training only)..


******************************

What a time for tanks that one is rejoicing on appearance of 29 heavy tanks... from USA ??

That sums up the story.
 
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Ray

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Antitank: An Airmechanized Response to Armored Threats in the 90s.

Deep Battle: The Brainchild of Marshal Tukhachevskii.

Human Factors in Mechanized Warfare.

Race to the Swift: Thoughts on Twenty-first Century Warfare.

Red Armour: An Examination of the Soviet Mobile Force Concept.

Tank Warfare: An Analysis of Soviet and NATO Tank Philosophy.

These books by Richard Simpkin are good reads.
 

sorcerer

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@pmaitra , @Ray,
Future tanks could surprise critics


Future tanks could surprise critics - Defense - GovExec.com

Just seven years ago, every self-styled strategic thinker knew that history had ended, that the dot-com boom would last forever, and, in military circles, that the tank was dead. The steel behemoths that had ruled the plains of Europe for six decades were too ungainly for a new world order that required rapid deployment of troops to small conflicts across the globe.

In 1994, Chechen guerrillas armed only with rocket-propelled grenades had destroyed more than 200 Russian armored vehicles in 30 days, and the U.S. Army was so slow in deploying its heavy machinery to the Balkans in 1999 that the ground forces never participated in the war in Kosovo.

"Power is increasingly defined not by mass or size but by mobility and swiftness," then-presidential candidate George W. Bush said at the Citadel military academy in September 1999. "Yet, today our military is still organized more for Cold War threats than for the challenges of a new century -- for Industrial Age operations, rather than for Information Age battles."

Just three weeks later, Gen. Eric Shinseki, President Clinton's Army chief of staff, announced a "transformation" program to replace the Army's 70-ton M1 Abrams main battle tank with vehicles weighing less than 20 tons, light enough to be flown around the world into areas with only dirt landing strips.

This "Future Combat System," as the Army termed it, would be protected not by heavy armor but by a linked computer network of sensors, robots, and precision weapons designed to find and destroy the enemy from a distance.

September 11, 2001, seemed the final proof of lightweight warfare. Nineteen terrorists with box cutters bypassed the entire American military. The United States retaliated against Osama bin Laden and the Taliban in Afghanistan with special forces and smart bombs, but no tanks.

Sixteen months later, the Bush administration rebuked Shinseki for insisting on a larger, heavier ground force for the invasion of Iraq. But Iraq showed that the age of the armored dinosaur was not over after all.

It was 70-ton M1s and 34-ton M2 Bradley infantry carriers that spearheaded the Iraq invasion -- not only by racing across the open desert but also by pushing deep into downtown Baghdad, shrugging off the same RPGs that had destroyed the Russians in Grozny a decade before. And once the insurgency began, the nimble 2.6-ton Humvees that the Pentagon preferred for "low-intensity" operations proved fatally vulnerable to ambush by rocket-propelled grenades and improvised explosive devices.

It was the 70-ton Abrams that plowed through IEDs and RPGs as coalition forces retook Falluja and Najaf. As late as 2002, the Army's armor school at Fort Knox had been teaching tankers to bypass urban areas altogether. But in Iraqi cities today, said Col. David Hubner, who led armored forces into Samarra, "I'd tell my tankers, 'You should have the same mind-set as Tyrannosaurus rex. There's nobody who's going to take you out.' "

While heavy armor is crushing the enemy when called upon in Iraq, back in Washington, the Future Combat System is facing extinction. "The project is over budget, behind schedule, and probably impractical," declared a July cover of Congressional Quarterly; the headline inside was "Dream Army's Rude Awakening."

The FCS has four big problems. The first is financial: The Army is squabbling with outside estimators over whether the program as planned will cost $130 billion, $200 billion, or as much as $300 billion.

The second problem is technological: By the last independent assessment, the computer network protocols, the digital radios, the armed scout robots, the system to shoot down incoming RPGs -- all told, 32 of 49 "critical technologies" that make up the Future Combat System -- have been tested only as "basic technological components" and only in a "simulated environment."

The third challenge is physical: The vehicles that are the linchpin of the FCS have swelled to 26 tons, making them too heavy for the Air Force's standard C-130 transport but still too light to match the protection of the massive M1's armor.

The fourth obstacle is conceptual: The Army has crammed so many ideas into the FCS -- "18+1+1 Systems" (that is, 20 systems), including a computer network, seven kinds of robots, and eight kinds of manned vehicles, according to the latest official Pentagon white paper -- that even program officials struggle to describe what the goal of the FCS program actually is: an updated brigade, built around a light-to-medium-weight armored vehicle, which will be supported by many more computer networks, sensors, and robots than any current mechanized unit.

Yet when describing the FCS, Army spokesmen oscillate unconvincingly between impenetrable jargon such as "soldier-centric" and late-night infomercial-speak such as "see first, understand first, shoot first, and finish decisively!"

So the same vultures of conventional wisdom that circled the heavy tank just seven years ago are now eyeing the Future Combat System. In 1999, everyone said that tanks were too big and too hard to maneuver in a modern, unconventional war, especially in cities. In 2006, everyone says that FCS vehicles are too small and too delicate to survive in a modern, unconventional war, especially in cities. And now, as then, the conventional wisdom appears to be mostly wrong.

The Army's inarticulate enthusiasm for the FCS has fostered three self-defeating myths: that the 26-ton FCS vehicles will replace 70-ton M1s in every capacity; that FCS units will deploy en masse by air to anywhere in the world; and that FCS troops will outfight every enemy, from Arab insurgents to North Korean missiles, by substituting information technology for heavy armor.

Congress, think tanks, and reporters are understandably incredulous. "You've got to be careful not to be taken in by all this great revolutionary bullshit, because none of it is field-tested," said retired Army Col. Douglas MacGregor, a vitriolic and influential critic. But some very real lights are hidden under this bushel of unproven high-tech hype:

Although the Army will mothball some big tanks, FCS brigades will serve alongside heavy-armored units -- using today's M1 Abrams and M2 Bradleys upgraded with new electronics -- until well after 2020, providing a hedge against technological shortfalls or unexpected threats.
Whatever the limits of airlift, the hybrid-electric FCS vehicles will be much more fuel-efficient on land than the huge turbine-driven M1s -- which get half a mile to the gallon -- maneuvering more quickly and needing fewer of the supply convoys that have proven so fatally vulnerable in Iraq.
Whether their high-tech defenses materialize or not, the eight variants of the 26-ton FCS vehicle will have at least as much old-fashioned armor as anything today except the M1. In fact, of the 332 vehicles that run on tracks rather than tires in a current "heavy brigade," from mortar carriers to mobile command posts, 111 are lighter and less-armored than their proposed FCS replacements.

The revolutionary rhetoric was overblown from the beginning, and since 1999 the Army has quietly reinserted traditional military virtues into the program. As recently as April, for example, the Pentagon white paper depicted the FCS "reconnaissance and surveillance vehicle" as a lightly armed platform reliant on long-range sensors, but data given to National Journal in recent weeks show instead a heavily armed machine capable of fighting ambushes as it advances and sentries as it scouts ahead.

The FCS vehicles aren't well suited for head-on slogging matches with big enemy tanks -- that will remain the job of the massive M1 -- but they are arguably better than the M1 for the fluid wars of the future that will have no clear front line.

The truth about the Future Combat System is that it is far less revolutionary than the Army likes to claim. And that's a good thing: It means that it is far more likely to work than the critics believe.

You Say You Want a Revolution?

The U.S. is a superpower of technology. But American ingenuity goes only so far. This summer, after six years of sticking to a 20-ton ceiling for the FCS, the Army publicly accepted that some variants would weigh as much as 26 tons.

"There are too many compromises in an 18-ton vehicle," said Col. Charles Bush of the Army staff's Force Development Division. "The sweet spot is about 24 to 26 tons," he said. "At that weight, I can achieve most of my lethality, survivability, and deployability objectives."

At this weight, the Army says, the FCS can provide all-around protection against mines, the rocket-propelled grenades favored by guerrillas, and quick-firing cannon shells as large as 30 millimeters, the standard caliber of the guns on Russian-made infantry carriers.

An FCS vehicle won't stop the 125 mm shells fired by larger Russian-made tanks -- in both wars with Iraq, shells fired by such tanks bounced off the M1's front armor -- but an FCS vehicle will provide protection equal to that of the M1's side and rear, and to the armor on all sides of the latest-model M2A3 Bradleys that have accompanied the bigger tanks deep into Baghdad, Falluja, and Najaf.

In fact, the infantry carrier variant of the FCS closely resembles the Bradley. The FCS vehicle has a slightly larger gun, 30 millimeters instead of 25; it loses the Bradley's TOW anti-tank missiles, which have seen little use against Iraqi insurgents and which fly so slowly that a targeted tank could fire back, lethally, before they hit; and the FCS has double the carrying capacity -- a full squad of nine infantrymen instead of the Bradley's four to six.

And the quarter-century of materials research since the Bradley's basic structure was designed in the 1970s has made it possible to get the same protection in a 26-ton vehicle as in the old 34-ton tank.

Another evolutionary improvement lost in the revolutionary hype is that almost every bit of super-technology being developed for the FCS could be installed on the M2 Bradley or the M1 Abrams. Shinseki's successor as chief of staff, Gen. Peter Schoomaker, has repeatedly overhauled the FCS program, ultimately delaying deployment of a fully FCS-equipped brigade by four years (to 2016). But he has ensured that current armored vehicles will be retrofitted with selected FCS technologies.

Even the computerized communications-and-command network -- the fundamental system linking all of the FCS's disparate parts -- builds on a principle a decade old. In 1997, the Army tested a prototype of such a network on every M1 tank and Bradley in an armored brigade, and then expanded it to an entire division. In 2003, a stripped-down version of that network, "Blue Force Tracker," was hastily installed on selected vehicles of other Army and Marine units going into Iraq. Troops have increasingly come to rely on the new technology.

"It was great to be able to look on the screen and see blue icons" representing friendly units, said Capt. Sam Donnelly, a staffer for a battalion command post during the Iraq invasion. "But our primary means of command-and-control was an FM radio, a map, and thumbtacks." As the campaign progressed, however, troops warmed to the new system -- and as units dispersed beyond the effective ranges of their Cold War radios, Donnelly said, "the only real contact we had with them was through [network] text message."

Still, the weakness of the improved communications network was the lack of good information. Donnelly's unit fought through repeated ambushes, and the Army nearly lost a critical bridge over the Euphrates, "Objective Peach," because neither scouts nor spy planes nor sensors spotted 8,000 Iraqis with 70 armored vehicles lurking under old-fashioned camouflage until they counterattacked. Since then, network upgrades and more unmanned drones have hardly made U.S. forces immune to surprise attacks.

The Stryker Experience

One way to judge whether the FCS vehicles will work is to look at the Army's other light-armored solution to modern warfare: the Stryker, a personnel carrier that moves on giant rubber tires instead of tracks and, in its 19-ton basic configuration, doesn't stop anything bigger than a .50-caliber bullet.

Ordered in 2000 as an "interim" step toward the FCS, Strykers were supposed to substitute information for mass. They were battle-tested in Iraq, where they came protected not only by their new electronics but also by an extra 2.5 tons of old-fashioned armor.

That additional metal made a difference, said Lt. Col. Michael Gibler, who was a battalion commander in the eastern half of Mosul in 2004 and 2005: "Twenty-seven RPGs hit Strykers in my battalion alone; not one of them penetrated." His unit of 70 Strykers was also hit by 250 roadside bombs and car bombs: "My vehicle was hit by three; my sergeant major's was hit by five," he recalled. "I only lost one soldier to an IED. He was exposed in an [open] hatch."
Although both critics and cheerleaders call Stryker and the FCS an unprecedented lightening of the Army, these systems are actually a turn toward heavier forces in the long struggle toward quick deployment. Gibler's battalion, for example, is much heavier today than it was before the Shinseki era.

The unit had been stripped of its armored vehicles and heavy artillery in the early 1980s, when the enemy was the newly Islamic Iran that threatened interruption of vital oil supplies far from established U.S. bases. The Army tried to create a force that could be deployed quickly to the Middle East by air: first, the "Rapid Deployment Force"; then an experimental "High-Technology Light Division," with air-droppable armored vehicles and missile-shooting dune buggies. The end result was plain old "light divisions" consisting of foot soldiers, towed artillery pieces, and a handful of Humvees.

The unit that actually did dash by air to Saudi Arabia in 1990, after Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait, was the 82nd Airborne, a division of foot soldiers backed by a handful of air-deployable but notoriously breakdown-prone M551 Sheridan light tanks. The 82nd's troops had so much less firepower and mobility than the Iraqi tank divisions arrayed against them, and so little hope of stopping an attack, that they bitterly called themselves "the speed bump."

But Saddam's tanks stayed put in Kuwait, and the heavy U.S. M1 tanks, M2 infantry carriers, and self-propelled M109 howitzers arrived by sea to devastate the Iraqi armor. So, in the drawdown that followed the Persian Gulf War victory, the Army sacrificed its light forces to save the heavies.

In 1996, Gen. Dennis Reimer, the Army chief of staff, not only phased out the Airborne's last M551 Sheridans, the only air-deployable armored fighting vehicle in service, but also canceled its replacement, the M8 Armored Gun System, which could be stripped down to 19 tons for airlift and then beefed up to 26 tons with bolt-on armor -- the same weight as an FCS machine fully loaded for combat.

Armored Gun Resurrected

The Army missed this light-armored capability just three years later in 1999, when its heavy forces struggled to quickly deploy from Germany south to the Balkans, and missed it even more in 2003, when Turkey denied U.S. forces permission to cross its territory into Iraq.

Instead of the 15,000 soldiers and 1,500 armored vehicles of the 4th Infantry Division, the northern front shrank to the 2,000 foot soldiers of the 173rd Airborne Brigade, reinforced by just 41 Humvees, 15 M113 armored personnel carriers, five M2 Bradleys, and five M1 tanks, all laboriously delivered by air.

The elite Airborne still managed to fight off much-larger Iraqi forces. But with so few vehicles, troops could not dash south to trap Saddam's loyalists before they retreated into his hometown of Tikrit and formed the first center of the insurgency.

Before a 2005 deployment to Afghanistan, the 82nd Airborne was "begging" to break the few Armored Gun System prototypes out of storage, said MacGregor, the Army critic, who considers the cancellation of the gun system one of the Army's great missed opportunities to fill the light-armored gap. "We've wasted years."

Maybe not so coincidentally, one of the FCS variants, called the "mounted combat" version, has a 120 mm cannon and looks a lot like an updated Armored Gun System vehicle. Described by many as "the replacement for the Abrams tank," the mounted combat FCS vehicle is actually nothing of the kind. It is the resurrection of a light-armored capability that the Army had for decades and then threw away.

What "lightweight" vehicles bring to battle is not just new electronics but also, ironically, more old-fashioned mass -- not to the tank brigades, which hardly need it, but to the light infantry, which desperately does. Bitter experience in Iraq shows that even up-armored Humvees are vulnerable to roadside bombs.

Robert Scales is a retired Army major general and an influential author who has fought for more light-armored vehicles since the mid-1990s, when he started the "Army After Next" war games that gave birth to the FCS. Scales has collected data from Korea, Vietnam, and Falluja showing that "soldiers mounted [in armored vehicles] are 10 times less likely to become casualties than soldiers who are not," he said. But "there's nothing in my data to relate thickness of armor to survivability," he added. Even light armor saves lives.

"Eighty-one percent of all deaths in combat since 1945 have been [among] dismounted infantry," said Scales, who is now a consultant to the FCS program. "Yet the Army's had 23 percent of the defense budget since 1952. That's why we go to war in Humvees."

The Mobility Myth

But armor is only half of the solution to the wars of the 21st century. The other half is speed -- deploying quickly to the war zone, and then maneuvering quickly within it. How to balance the weight of armor with the necessity for speed remains the Army's dilemma.

America is the superpower of the air, just as Britannia once ruled the waves. Still, the U.S. Air Force has its limits. The Army, however, based its Future Combat System on a naive faith in its sister service's ability to transport the equipment to any battlefield. Until this year, Army spokesmen insisted that the FCS vehicles would weigh less than 20 tons, making them light enough to fly in fleets of C-130 transports, land on dirt strips, and roll off ready to fight.

"The problem with that concept is that it was developed by tankers who didn't have a clue," said Robert Killebrew, a retired infantry colonel who worked for Scales in the war games of the 1990s and is now part of his team again. Killebrew, who served with the Special Forces in Vietnam, has commanded ad hoc dirt airstrips set up for C-130s, "and I'll tell you," he said, "you beat them to pieces with that kind of traffic; they cannot be maintained, they're easy targets for artillery and rockets -- and the Air Force doesn't have that many C-130s, anyway."

The United States has 514 C-130s. With each plane carrying one FCS vehicle -- still do-able with the current 26-ton design, if crews unbolt most of the armor, fly it separately, and then bolt it back on, a process the Army says should take less than eight hours -- it would take all 514 to lift a single brigade's 332 FCS armored vehicles and a reasonable amount of supplies.

But even that unlikely scenario wouldn't keep Shinseki's promise to "deploy a brigade anywhere in the world in 96 hours." Most C-130s, fully loaded, have a range of only 1,000 miles, a third of the way across the Atlantic.

The newer, larger C-17s can carry three FCS vehicles, fully armored, around the globe. But even the Air Force's boldest budget requests only 220 C-17s, which means a theoretical maximum carrying capacity of 660 FCS vehicles or, more realistically, one brigade with a few of its hundreds of supply trucks.

The dirty secret is that Scales and company never actually wanted the C-130 for rapid deployment overseas. They knew perfectly well that the plane's range was just too short. They wanted the C-130 to maneuver brigades in 500-mile sprints once they had arrived in the war theater, outflanking ground-bound enemies in an airborne blitzkrieg. Imagine being able to "drop five brigades around Baghdad," Scales told National Journal in 2003. "The war's over in a day."

Faced with the limits of air transport, the Army now talks of airlifting only about one-third of one brigade behind enemy lines: "We could move a battalion through the air in an operationally meaningful way," said Col. Robert Beckinger, the FCS manager for the Training and Doctrine Command.

That's dialing things way down from the war games of the mid-1990s. But it is still many more armored fighting vehicles than the United States ever moved by air before it gave up its last airmobile light armor in 1996.

Supply Trains

For all the romance of airborne war, it is when the FCS vehicles reach the ground that they could really speed up operations. Built to burn jet fuel, the M1 Abrams's turbine engine makes the 70-ton tank one of the fastest vehicles ever to fight once it's on the battlefield, but the long journey to that battlefield is painfully slow because of frequent stops for gas.

"Every eight hours, you're going to burn 300 gallons, whether it's moving or not," because the engine also powers the tank's electronics, said Capt. Ray Bolar, an Army tank officer who has served two tours in Iraq. Even compared with six months of fighting in Ramadi in 2005, Bolar said, being a supply officer in the 2003 invasion "was maybe the hardest thing I have ever done."

Driving around the clock, the M1s covered 350 miles in 72 hours, nearly 120 miles a day, twice as fast as Patton's 3rd Army moved in 1944. But the M1s had to pull into improvised refueling stops three times a day.

By Scales's count, unarmored fuel trucks made 30,000 supply runs, averaging 800 miles apiece, through Iraqi territory to keep the big tanks moving. Support units got scrambled in the process. "Some New Mexico National Guard guys somehow got roped in and followed us to Baghdad," Bolar said. "It was, 'You got fuel?'

'Yeah.... '

'You're coming with us.' "

That April, at the moment of U.S victory, commanders nearly withdrew the famously successful quick-strike "thunder runs" of tank columns into downtown Baghdad because of a supply shortage. Instead, they shut down their M1s for two hours while the more fuel-efficient M2 Bradleys stood watch. Meanwhile, in the fiercest fighting of the day, the rear guard escorted unarmored trucks full of volatile fuel and ammunition into the city.

To keep the road into the city open, Maj. Harry (Zan) Hornbuckle, then a captain, held a crucial highway intersection called "Objective Curly" through eight straight hours of fighting. "I didn't have any tanks," he said, and his five Bradleys had no extra armor, just external storage racks for his troops' equipment: "The RPGs would hit the duffel bags and detonate [prematurely]."

All of his vehicles, and all of his men, survived the fight. But when the unarmored supply column drove through, "a couple of fuelers and a couple of ammo trucks got destroyed," Hornbuckle recalled. "That was the only killed-in-action of the day."

Despite desperate retrofitting with armor, the supply convoys remain the most vulnerable part of the U.S. force in Iraq. "Most people don't understand how dependent M1s and Bradleys are on that logistical umbilical cord," Scales said. Heavy armor can smash into cities, he said, "but it can't stay there and control populations."

By contrast, Stryker units routinely kept their much lighter vehicles in downtown Mosul for three days at a time without resupply, said Lt. Col. Gibler. And in the Shiite uprising of 2004, one Stryker battalion drove 300 miles from Mosul to Al Kut in the south -- fighting insurgents along the way -- in 48 hours.

The Army contends that an FCS brigade will need 10 to 30 percent less fuel than today's heavy brigades, 66 percent fewer mechanics, and one-third fewer supply trucks. Defense programs from fighter jets to warships have promised, and failed, to deliver such efficiencies before -- although the goal is more realistic this time because "you couldn't design a less fuel-efficient engine than the M1's," Killebrew said.

The FCS prototype chassis now being completed is the first U.S. military vehicle with a hybrid-electric drive. That means not only better mileage on the go but also enough batteries to run electronics with the engine off, and even a lighter transmission.

All of the mundane machinery of the FCS benefits from 30 years of refinement since the M1 and the M2 were designed in the late 1970s, said Maj. Gen. Charles Cartwright, the FCS program manager. Compact electric motors replace bulky hydraulic and mechanical systems. High-strength rubber tracks replace traditional steel tracks, allowing for a lighter suspension and saving almost two tons of weight.

The 120 mm cannon uses the same ammunition as current versions but weighs about a ton less and has recoil systems that enable a 26-ton vehicle to withstand the shock. Unlike today's mix of M1s, M2s, M109s, and M113s, Cartwright added, "every one of these manned ground [FCS] vehicles has the same engine, a common computer, a common chassis." And the FCS vehicles simply have less mass to move and maintain.

The Replacement Myth

In 1999, Gen. Shinseki proposed replacing the entire Army armored infrastructure with a uniform force of Future Combat System vehicles. Skeptical Capitol Hill staffers joked about a "big-bang theory" of modernization.

But the money never matched the ambition. As early as 2000, Army officials and documents acknowledged that it would take decades to replace the last M1s and M2s. Today, the Army's budget plans call for equipping just 15 of its 42 active-duty brigades with FCS vehicles, with the first brigade fully fielded by 2016 and the last by 2020. Larger tanks will remain in service through at least 2035, said Rickey Smith, an Army "capabilities integration" expert.

And the service will equip many M1s and Bradleys with FCS electronics. An all-FCS force, Smith said, is something "the nation can't afford and wouldn't want."

Even ardent FCS advocate Scales emphasizes using combined arms -- all kinds of light and heavy forces -- rather than relying on a single silver bullet to fight any war. "You don't just dump a bunch of [FCS] vehicles in the midst of the enemy," he said.

Scales's war-fighting scheme has Special Forces scouting the ground first, then airborne Rangers seizing the landing strips, then C-17s carrying FCS raiding parties behind enemy lines -- acting as the winged hammer to an overland anvil of both FCS and heavy brigades, with M1s on hand to crack the toughest nuts.

Modern armies always mix battle-tested and cutting-edge weapons, said Bruce Gudmundsson, a retired Marine major and the author of the definitive trilogy On Armor, On Infantry, and On Artillery.

"FCS aficionados feel compelled to compete directly with the M1," he said, but the two systems are very different -- and complementary. "Adding networked, [light-] armored vehicles armed with precision-guided missiles to our armored forces is a good idea," Gudmundsson said. "Replacing traditional armored vehicles with them is not."

War remains a brutal business. As long as the physics of breaking human bodies stay the same, the sheer weight of metal will have its uses, just as does the finesse provided by training, tactics, and intelligence. For all of the Army's emphasis on information technology, the future force will need mass as well.

"It won't be perfect in any environment," Killebrew said of the FCS. But it will be more adaptable across all environments, a "nice balance" between the foot sloggers of the light infantry and the fuel hoggers of the heavy armor. And, he added, the unpleasant surprises of the last five years are proof that "the Army has got to have more balance than ever, because we don't know how future wars are going to be fought."
 
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Bhadra

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Tank is more than a Tank..The Saga will continue...

The U.S. Army's New 84-Ton Tank Prototype Is Nearly IED-Proof

Heavy does not even begin to describe the U.S. Army's new tank. At 84 tons, the Ground Combat Vehicle prototype weighs more than twice as much as its predecessor, the Bradley Fighting Vehicle. The Bradley is designed to carry a six-man squad (and three-man driving crew) into combat, while the GCV will carry a larger, nine-man squad. Both vehicles will provide covering fire and damage enemy tanks. But the military has built the new GCV to withstand a kind of threat that didn't exist when the Bradley was deployed in the early 1980s: improvised explosive devices.

Part of logic behind the new tank's massive size is that soldiers inside a vehicle are more likely to survive an explosion if there's adequate space for them to wear armor while seated. The extra space also helps distribute pressure from the blast and thus lessens its impact. Another reason the GCV is so huge is that it's required to carry a larger gun than the Bradley does; the new tank will hold a 30mm cannon, probably the 344-pound Mk44 Bushmaster II. Finally, the GCV's extra weight means it will need to be manufactured from the start with a more powerful engine. (By contrast, the Bradley got heavier as the Army added armor to it in Iraq, and its original engine wasn't powerful enough to support the extra weight.)

The Ground Combat Vehicle is pretty much the opposite of the original plan to replace the Bradley. A high-concept proposal called Future Combat Systems aimed to make all U.S. Army vehicles lighter. But during the long ground wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (in which IEDs were the top cause of fatalities), it became clear clear that heavier, not lighter, was the better vehicle design. The U.S. canceled the Future Combat Systems program, and work on the GCV began in 2009. The Pentagon is scheduled to award the first contract to manufacture GCVs in 2019.

The U.S. Army's New 84-Ton Tank Prototype Is Nearly IED-Proof [Updated] | Popular Science
So the focus is IED !! What a change in the battle field milieu and the doctrine. The tanks were supposed to be highly mobile and win victory merely by movements and manoeuvres, by dislocation, hitting at nerve centres, breaking the will of the enemy merely by manoeuvres, appearing at unexpected places in depth and on flanks.

Now look they are designing a heavy pill box fto fight a local war, against terrorists, insurgents, jihadies and the third world wretches.

If a tank is being designed for the streets of Iraq or Afghanistan , it clearly proves tanks have lost the battles of their existence as was traditionally meant.

Second focus is to carry fighting men (infantry) in war ? That is also strange as Tanks were supposed to win the wars on their own. Infantry was to follow up. Now the tanks will be infantry carries. Tanks as were known have clearly lost out.
Israelis had done that long time ago with Markavas.


Blitzkrieg is dead. Long live infantry tanks.
No wonder US Army Armour Corps officers are serving in Stryker battalions as infantry men.
 

Bhadra

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Sir,



.

I would like you to answer this,as I feel that it will clear lot of my doubts and yours.

Situation=Russia has invaded Poland.
Why should Russia invade Poland ? The story of Ukraine and Crimea is different.
If Russia wanted vast empire of USSR, they would have not allowed USSR to disintegrate.
Territory is no longer the major means of money making.

Ok, even if Russia invades Poland you think Germany or Europe is going to attack Russia?

The defence of USA no longer lies in Eastern Europe or Europe. That Capitalist system has disintegrated with the demise of Communism in Russia. USA and Europe has already won Cold War and rendered Russia weak not to attack Poland.

Objective=Nato has to replse (repulse) Russian forces,and have to overthrow Putin and make russian forces to surender.
Neigh impossible in the existence of strong Nuclear Forces.

Condition=Russia has heavy armor while Nato has light armor,No nukes on both side.
Now achieve you goals in broad sense.I want to see how you out maneuver heavy armor,backed by sam
.
That is purely speculative as we can not imagines absence of Armour in absence of Nuclear weapons.

However what does the history say ?
 
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ghost

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Why should Russia invade Poland ? The story of Ukraine and Crimea is different.
If Russia wanted vast empire of USSR, they would have not allowed USSR to disintegrate.
Territory is no longer the major means of money making.

Ok, even if Russia invades Poland you think Germany or Europe is going to attack Russia?

The defence of USA no longer lies in Eastern Europe or Europe. That Capitalist system has disintegrated with the demise of Communism in Russia. USA and Europe has already won Cold War and rendered Russia weak not to attack Poland.



Neigh impossible in the existence of strong Nuclear Forces.



That is purely speculative as we can not imagines absence of Armour in absence of Nuclear weapons.

However what does the history say ?
Leave it.........

Tanks have adopted to new situations and new challenges,but if one tends to close his eyes with the traditional doctrine regarding use of armor, and tend to ignore the new development in the battlefield across Ukraine,Syria,Iraq and Israel ,then none can help.It's one choice to ignore the hard reality on ground and the changes taking place.

Before 9-11, actually in 1999, the former Army Chief of Staff General Shinseki
engineered an internal military putsch, the objective of which was to totally eliminate
all US Army Abrams tanks and armored fighting vehicles, replacing them with
light-weight rubber-tired armored cars. Although Shinseki was himself replaced, his
clique is still influential in the US Army and Marine Corps. It is their claim that
America must not fight in urban warfare, and if any battles do occur inside enemy
cities, no armored formations or artillery will be used. To say that this clique of
US Army generals is totally incompetent, and should be run out of town on a rail,
is an understatement. When American armed forces invaded Iraq in 2003, they were
greatly outnumbered by the Iraqi Army. Thanks to the adroit use of American
Abrams tanks and armored fighting vehicles, all of Iraq was seized in a matter of
days with hardly any casualties
. That feat of arms will go down in history alongside the
achievements of the German Panzer Divisions in World War II.Tanks in the City describes the massive power and utility of armored formations without which modern US Army and Marine infantry cannot take cities. Whenever American conventional infantry attempted to take cities in Iraq or Afghanistan after 9-11, they were usually defeated. Tanks in the City explicitly describes how American tank units can easily seize enemy cities utilizing Abrams tanks, self-propelled artillery, sappers, and properly trained assault infantry. Several battles in Iraq, which were won by tank-spearheaded armored formations, are recounted in Tanks in the City.Tanks in the City provides detailed information describing why and how the tank-infantry-artillery team can turn any enemy city into a death trap for its terrorist defenders. Without that tank-centered combat team, infantry casualties will be too great. American generals don't like fighting in urban warfare, because they have been taught to fear it. Most of them do not understand just how advantageous it is to use tanks in the city.

The Mahdi army, and muslim terrorists in general, is intimidated by the Abrams tanks' 120mm main gun and multiple machine guns. As soon as American tanks began destroying the enemy with their 120mm main guns(105mm guns are just as effective in cities), the terrorists panicked and then broke and ran. Such tank versus terrorist gang engagements often took place at short ranges, where the concussive effect of the cannon was lethal, even if the enemy was not directly hit by the rounds. Such effects proved to be the case during the nights of continuous Iraqi police station defense and other armored combat.

Tanks in the City - Armor Dominates Urban Warfare

The extensive use of tanks in major combat operations within urban
Palestinian areas since Operation 'Defensive Shield' is due to the fact
that the IDF's newest Merkava Mk.4 and upgraded versions of the
Merkava Mk.3 have been 'equipped with advanced communication
and battle management systems that enable individual tanks or very
small groups of tank crews to operate autonomously for extended
periods in conjunction with infantry units'.
Deadly attacks on light armored vehicles have prompted Israel Defense Forces to increase their use of main battle tanks in patrol roles or other types of low-intensity conflict normally assigned to smaller vehicles.

Israel's Main Battle Tanks Adapted For Urban Combat, Low-Intensity Conflict
 

Damian

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@ghost

Don't worry, Shinsheki was indeed replaced as well as his zelots both in US Army HQ as well as in Congress, DoD and Pentagon.

Currently US is investing in to AFV's modernization, including modernization of Main Battle Tanks, and also there are currently performed R&D work on new technologies for future AFV's and also study in early stage for development of future MBT, somewhere around 2030.
 
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Ky Loung

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Basra was a mess for the British. Most European nation forgot how to fight in a war. By the time Basra was captured by the British the war was almost over.

Shinsheki wanted a lighter IFV that can be transported in mass and able to provide protection to troops. The US has the ability to send troops anywhere in the world within three days or so to take any territories. The problem was we needed some short of light IFV to provide protection. Stryker was US solution to the problem. So a brigade or division dropping out of airplanes and/or helos will have some short of armor vehicle to use.

Heavy tanks will have it uses. Without tanks we would not be able to conquered Iraqi in such a short term. Without tanks our infantry would have a much harder time taking urban areas. It's all about understanding combine arms.
 
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Bhadra

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Leave it.........

Tanks have adopted to new situations and new challenges,but if one tends to close his eyes with the traditional doctrine regarding use of armor, and tend to ignore the new development in the battlefield across Ukraine,Syria,Iraq and Israel ,then none can help.It's one choice to ignore the hard reality on ground and the changes taking place.

Before 9-11, actually in 1999, the former Army Chief of Staff General Shinseki
engineered an internal military putsch, the objective of which was to totally eliminate
all US Army Abrams tanks and armored fighting vehicles, replacing them with
light-weight rubber-tired armored cars. Although Shinseki was himself replaced, his
clique is still influential in the US Army and Marine Corps. It is their claim that
America must not fight in urban warfare, and if any battles do occur inside enemy
cities, no armored formations or artillery will be used. To say that this clique of
US Army generals is totally incompetent, and should be run out of town on a rail,
is an understatement. When American armed forces invaded Iraq in 2003, they were
greatly outnumbered by the Iraqi Army. Thanks to the adroit use of American
Abrams tanks and armored fighting vehicles, all of Iraq was seized in a matter of
days with hardly any casualties
. That feat of arms will go down in history alongside the
achievements of the German Panzer Divisions in World War II.Tanks in the City describes the massive power and utility of armored formations without which modern US Army and Marine infantry cannot take cities. Whenever American conventional infantry attempted to take cities in Iraq or Afghanistan after 9-11, they were usually defeated. Tanks in the City explicitly describes how American tank units can easily seize enemy cities utilizing Abrams tanks, self-propelled artillery, sappers, and properly trained assault infantry. Several battles in Iraq, which were won by tank-spearheaded armored formations, are recounted in Tanks in the City.Tanks in the City provides detailed information describing why and how the tank-infantry-artillery team can turn any enemy city into a death trap for its terrorist defenders. Without that tank-centered combat team, infantry casualties will be too great. American generals don't like fighting in urban warfare, because they have been taught to fear it. Most of them do not understand just how advantageous it is to use tanks in the city.

The Mahdi army, and muslim terrorists in general, is intimidated by the Abrams tanks' 120mm main gun and multiple machine guns. As soon as American tanks began destroying the enemy with their 120mm main guns(105mm guns are just as effective in cities), the terrorists panicked and then broke and ran. Such tank versus terrorist gang engagements often took place at short ranges, where the concussive effect of the cannon was lethal, even if the enemy was not directly hit by the rounds. Such effects proved to be the case during the nights of continuous Iraqi police station defense and other armored combat.

Tanks in the City - Armor Dominates Urban Warfare



Deadly attacks on light armored vehicles have prompted Israel Defense Forces to increase their use of main battle tanks in patrol roles or other types of low-intensity conflict normally assigned to smaller vehicles.

Israel's Main Battle Tanks Adapted For Urban Combat, Low-Intensity Conflict

Now, blame the poor Shinsheki for Armour loosing the battle !!! Ha Ha Ha ...


I for one am not Shinsheki follower.

I was browsing through the Current US Army FMs - I could not find any manual on Armour operations !

What a fall from grace ! One stroke of Perestroika and Glasnost has rendered so many Armoured Divisions useless.
 
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Bhadra

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Basra was a mess for the British. Most European nation forgot how to fight in a war. By the time Basra was captured by the British the war was almost over.

Shinsheki wanted a lighter IFV that can be transported in mass and able to provide protection to troops. The US has the ability to send troops anywhere in the world within three days or so to take any territories. The problem was we needed some short of light IFV to provide protection. Stryker was US solution to the problem. So a brigade or division dropping out of airplanes and/or helos will have some short of armor vehicle to use.

Heavy tanks will have it uses. Without tanks we would not be able to conquered Iraqi in such a short term. Without tanks our infantry would have a much harder time taking urban areas. It's all about understanding combine arms.
British claim the contrary - that Basra was a classical piece of British victory. They also claimed that US Forces do not know how to conduct operations. They claimed that with respect of Afghanistan also.

Heavy tanks will have no role if in the changed battle field environment the Strykers, Apaches, helicopters and drones are able to attain the desired military objective.

Just look at the cost of induction and abandonment or de-induction of tanks into and out of Afghanistan ! I believe Pakistan even stole away many parts.
 

Bhadra

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Quoted from various US FMs :

" The future battlespace will be fluid, high tempo, and nonlinear. The traditional battlefield framework of :

deep,

close,

and rear operations

will become increasingly convoluted and ambiguous.


Army operations will be conducted in the context of an ever-changing world. No longer
can we model the force and develop our doctrine against one known threat, or even
counter the capabilities of a number of known potential adversaries. Instead, we must develop and retain the war fighting capability to win decisively across the spectrum of operations with minimum friendly casualties. This is domination–based warfare-massing not only our forces, but total lethal and nonlethal effects, throughout the battle space to dominate any potential adversary.

The Apache and Comanche fully exemplify the inextricable linkage between manoeuvre
and fires. With unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) to extend their range and coverage digitally cued by the Joint Surveillance Target Attack Radar System (JSTARS), Army airborne command and control system (A2C2S) UH–60 Black Hawks, and other ground–based command posts—these aircraft provide commanders with real–time intelligence and situational awareness. They manoeuvre throughout the depth of the battle space to deliver precision fires with devastating lethality."


The Tank will be there but only as the heavy, sluggish and slow partner in the battle space. It would have been out paced, out manoeuvred and out gunned by other much mobile, much flexible and much agile elements of fire and manoeuvre such as drones and attack helicopters.

It would no longer be the King on the chess board.
 

pmaitra

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British claim the contrary - that Basra was a classical piece of British victory. They also claimed that US Forces do not know how to conduct operations. They claimed that with respect of Afghanistan also.

Heavy tanks will have no role if in the changed battle field environment the Strykers, Apaches, helicopters and drones are able to attain the desired military objective.

Just look at the cost of induction and abandonment or de-induction of tanks into and out of Afghanistan ! I believe Pakistan even stole away many parts.
Basra was no cakewalk. You must also consider that the British have a habit of finding faults with anything but themselves. It is possibly a manifestation of the trauma they suffered after the loss of their Empire. The truth regarding Basra, is probably somewhere in the middle.
 

sgarg

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a good comment......

and yes, Indian history is all about using elephants as the main arm, and then the horse riders comes on their back :ranger:
No. There is no comparison between elephant and tank.
Tank is a form of artillery.

In modern war, an infantry charge will come AFTER artillery attacks.
 

sgarg

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The drones may actually increase the importance of the tank, as the large vehicle that tank is makes it easier to mount anti-drone missiles or guns.

The large UCAVs are like fighter aircraft and will be attacked with mobile SAMs.
 

Damian

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xxxx xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxx. Mod : No name calling :nono:

http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/doctrine/genesis_and_evolution/source_materials/FM-100-5_operations.pdf

Field Manual from 1993, June, Armored Warfare in USA exists as Combined Arms Warfare, it was allways that way and it did not changed.

There are also newer field manuals of US Army considering heavy armored forces, combined arms battalions and so on.

FM 3-90.5 4/7/2008 THE COMBINED ARMS BATTALION (INCL C1)
FM 3-90.1 12/9/2002 TANK AND MECHANIZED INFANTRY COMPANY TEAM
Active_FM - Army Doctrine and Training Publications

Evryone can even check current US Army modernization plans and strategies, and also TARDEC strategy for next 30 years.

US Army wants to have heavy armor, thus it modernize existing platforms and work on requirements for new platforms, including new tank.

TARDEC also prepared a strategy and is working on several concepts of new armored fighting vehicles.

Take a note, DARPA concepts will never be fielded by US Army, simply because DARPA is only that, organization to develop concepts and technologies, but the actuall vehicles development is made by TARDEC and choosen private contracotr, and their concepts of AFV's are much more different than that recent fantasy from DARPA.

As for Shinsheki, his dream of a light US Army was long time abandoned, with cancellation of Future Combat Systems program, and also with modernization of Stryker, which was too lightly protected, now is modernized, and transport capabilities inside C-130 were scrapped as requirement.

Also currently US Army have more ABCT's (Armored Brigade Combat Teams) than SBCT's (Stryker Brigade Combat Teams), also ABCT's are currently largest US Army formations below division level.

Brigade combat team - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Besides this we currently see that trend to reduce heavy armor mechanized forces will reverse. Just recently Bundeswehr officials informed politicians in Bundestag that Heer (ground forces) have too little number of tanks and that reductions were ridiculous, to the point of absurd (something me and Militarysta said for long time), and there is chance that Bundeswehre will convience these idiots in Bundestag to restert production of Leopard 2, and there are also rumors that they wish to restart Leopard 3 project.

So now we know that both US Army and Bundeswehr are thinking about next generation Main Battle Tank, and to modernize existing tank fleets.
 

Ky Loung

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British claim the contrary - that Basra was a classical piece of British victory. They also claimed that US Forces do not know how to conduct operations. They claimed that with respect of Afghanistan also.

Heavy tanks will have no role if in the changed battle field environment the Strykers, Apaches, helicopters and drones are able to attain the desired military objective.

Just look at the cost of induction and abandonment or de-induction of tanks into and out of Afghanistan ! I believe Pakistan even stole away many parts.
It was a complete failure. There was a point where US high command wanted the British to stand down and let USA finish the job because it was taking too long. The British and in general European think it better to give flowers to the enemy than put a bullet in them.
 

Ky Loung

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xxxx xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxx. Mod : No name calling :nono:
http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/doctrine/genesis_and_evolution/source_materials/FM-100-5_operations.pdf

Field Manual from 1993, June, Armored Warfare in USA exists as Combined Arms Warfare, it was allways that way and it did not changed.

There are also newer field manuals of US Army considering heavy armored forces, combined arms battalions and so on.

FM 3-90.5 4/7/2008 THE COMBINED ARMS BATTALION (INCL C1)
FM 3-90.1 12/9/2002 TANK AND MECHANIZED INFANTRY COMPANY TEAM
Active_FM - Army Doctrine and Training Publications

Evryone can even check current US Army modernization plans and strategies, and also TARDEC strategy for next 30 years.

US Army wants to have heavy armor, thus it modernize existing platforms and work on requirements for new platforms, including new tank.

TARDEC also prepared a strategy and is working on several concepts of new armored fighting vehicles.

Take a note, DARPA concepts will never be fielded by US Army, simply because DARPA is only that, organization to develop concepts and technologies, but the actuall vehicles development is made by TARDEC and choosen private contracotr, and their concepts of AFV's are much more different than that recent fantasy from DARPA.

As for Shinsheki, his dream of a light US Army was long time abandoned, with cancellation of Future Combat Systems program, and also with modernization of Stryker, which was too lightly protected, now is modernized, and transport capabilities inside C-130 were scrapped as requirement.

Also currently US Army have more ABCT's (Armored Brigade Combat Teams) than SBCT's (Stryker Brigade Combat Teams), also ABCT's are currently largest US Army formations below division level.

Brigade combat team - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Besides this we currently see that trend to reduce heavy armor mechanized forces will reverse. Just recently Bundeswehr officials informed politicians in Bundestag that Heer (ground forces) have too little number of tanks and that reductions were ridiculous, to the point of absurd (something me and Militarysta said for long time), and there is chance that Bundeswehre will convience these idiots in Bundestag to restert production of Leopard 2, and there are also rumors that they wish to restart Leopard 3 project.

So now we know that both US Army and Bundeswehr are thinking about next generation Main Battle Tank, and to modernize existing tank fleets.
We should have our new MBT in 2018 if there are no delays. The Russian should have their around the same time. Big Army will start replacing the M1A2 until we have 2k to 3k of A3.

We also in the process of upgrading Bradley which is needed. The Bradley is design to scout, protect Abrams from infantry, and air defense.

Battle of 73 Easting is the last great tank battle of 20th century. The video below shows how US armor doctrine works. Abrams and Bradley working together. Keep in mind it from the first Gulf War. US armor technology have greatly improved since then. It's a great video highly recommend if you have the time.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...3-easting-military-history-war-documentary_tv
 
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