Is Air force capable of Two Front War?

AOE

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Firstly, you and I have the opposite ways of looking at China. You think it is basically communists disguising as capitalists, I think it is a bunch of capitalists hiding behind a communist mask.
On the other hand, democracy is definitely useful for everyone, but maynot be possible for everyone. People still caught in a Feudalistic mindset, like in Afghanistan (or Saudi Arabia), it might not be tenable.
I respect what you're saying, but if China was really run by capitalists deep down; they would drop the communist image as it damages their political relations with many western countries. They also support North Korea, one of the most depraved and authoritarian regimes in human history. Then again it could be argued that your perception is correct, as the regime there maybe doesn't believe in communism, and just uses it as an excuse to put people into slave labor to make the regime rich. Either way it's not good.

Democracy is possible absolutely everywhere, my point on dropping tribalism in Afghanistan also applies to Saudi Arabia. Do you think that if we went back in time, and showed the Romans and Greeks of antiquity what would happen to Europe during the middle-ages; that they would tell you democracy would be possible today? They would say that it would be impossible, since the feudalistic mindset of then is the same as the mentality of your average islamist today.

All tyrannies end at some point, and freedom is an inevitability. Some people may take this the wrong way; but in order for democracy to flourish in places like Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, etc... they have to throw off the barbarian culture of their ancestors; similar to how Europeans moved into the Renaissance, the Age of Enlightement, and the Modern Era. If we did it, so can they. It's all just a matter of time.
 

ace009

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I respect what you're saying, but if China was really run by capitalists deep down; they would drop the communist image as it damages their political relations with many western countries. They also support North Korea, one of the most depraved and authoritarian regimes in human history. Then again it could be argued that your perception is correct, as the regime there maybe doesn't believe in communism, and just uses it as an excuse to put people into slave labor to make the regime rich. Either way it's not good.

Democracy is possible absolutely everywhere, my point on dropping tribalism in Afghanistan also applies to Saudi Arabia. Do you think that if we went back in time, and showed the Romans and Greeks of antiquity what would happen to Europe during the middle-ages; that they would tell you democracy would be possible today? They would say that it would be impossible, since the feudalistic mindset of then is the same as the mentality of your average islamist today.

All tyrannies end at some point, and freedom is an inevitability. Some people may take this the wrong way; but in order for democracy to flourish in places like Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, etc... they have to throw off the barbarian culture of their ancestors; similar to how Europeans moved into the Renaissance, the Age of Enlightement, and the Modern Era. If we did it, so can they. It's all just a matter of time.
I understand your argument and agree to some degree, but I still too cynical about the "forward march" of human freedom and democracy. Taking your very own point about ancient European cultures like Greeks and Romans, they were way more open minded and advanced than the European states in the middle ages. If you look into history, you would find that human culture has followed cyclical patterns. Too much freedom has been perceived as a weakness and either some despot has seized power or external threats have brought down the society. In the middle ages (from ~ AD 410 to AD 1450), the biggest despot was obviously the Roman Catholic Church (not that the Lutherans or the Puritans were any better). The church, in it's various forms had stifled knowledge, science, creativity and rational thinking. The middle ages were called "dark ages", but could easily have been called "overly religious" ages. At that time, the east was flourishing. The Chinese, the Indian and obviously the Arabs were way more advanced in science, technology than the Europeans, despite the achievements of the Roman Empire only a few centuries ago. Europe had fallen into the religious feudalistic/ tribalistic mindset and had very little to show for a thousand years, except for warfare, pogroms, crusades, plagues and famines.
However, by the turn of the last millenium, the Indians were being invaded repeatedly by the Arabs, Turks, Islamic Persians and finally by the Mongols. Hindus became overly conservative, a closed society and led to the "dark ages of India" from the 11th century to the 15th Century. Similarly by the end of the 13th Century, Arabs started faltering (after loss to the Mongols and then the Europeans) and became overly religious, leading to a decline of their science and technology. The Chinese suffered similar fates due to Mongol conquests and later European invasions, before turning overly introvert and losing their advantages in science and technology.
So, you can see, freedom is not so much a progression as a state of the society in relation to the rest of the world. It is also a function of the amount of religiosity (inversely related, i.e. more religion, less development/ freedom, less religion, more development, more freedom).
 

AOE

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Yes you are correct ace, the Romans and Greeks of antiquity were more open-minded, and advanced in almost every way to the Europeans of the dark ages. That's why I brought them up to make the point I did, because those Europeans of the dark ages, in the early parts of it, helped to destroy Rome. There were many other factors; the Romans turned from a quasi-democratic state into an authoritarian one, and eventually split into rival factions within the power elite; the same divider and killer of the Persian, Indian, Chinese, and other empires throughout human history. The reason the Sassanid Persians lost to the muslims in the 7th century, was due to similar reasons; constant warfare, and a division within the monarchy and led to around 30 rulers in Persia just before it was conquered. I would say the biggest despot of the Middle-Ages is subjective, as the Roman Catholic Church was horrendous I agree, but then the Caliphates were more militant and aggressive than even the Catholics of old. They were however (as you said), more scientifically advanced than the Europeans of the dark ages because they borrowed largely from Greek, Roman, Persian, Egyptian, Indian, Assyrian, and Babylonian knwoledge; which of which the Caliphates would have been no different to the Crusaders. They also helped to preserve much of that literature while the Orthodox Christians of the East Roman Empire, and the Catholic Church were destroying it.

Much of the knowledge that was collected and preserved in that part of the world happened in spite of the Caliphates, as they were run by the similar kinds of religious extremists you will find advocating the destruction of anything non-Islamic. It was only until that knowledge came back into European circles 1000 years after Antiquity that the Renaissance happened, and the world has slowly been coming back to a period of prosperity and peace ever since. The Mongols who came out of Central and Northern Asia during the 11th centuries were actually more aggressive towards Muslims of that time than the Crusaders, in fact at one point there were people being sent to France to create a Franco-Mongol alliance; luckily that deadly combination never happened as the Mongols spoke to everyone they came in contact with in a supremacist tone, that everyone was a potential enemy to be subjugated later on. One of Genghis Khans grandsons, Hulegu Khan; destroyed the Muslim military and technological centre of power in Baghdad in 1258, also killing the Abbasid Caliphate in the same war, and up to 1 million people in one battle. All of this was in response to Muslims invading and subjugating the Turks and other Central-Asian ethnic groups who were originally Shamanist, and Hulegu went on to quickly capturing a quickly surrendered Damasacus (another point of power in the Muslim world), only to be later defeated in by the Mameluks. Some of Genghis Khans later down-the-line descendants would form the Golden Horde and Timurid dynasties, the former of which made Russia a vassal, and the latter formed the Mughal dynasties in India that were probably the bloodiest and violent part of Indias history; perhaps worse than even the British Raj.

By this stage the Renaissance was occuring, followed by the Age of Enlightenment where the first democratic state was created (The US in 1776, and it was born out of fighting colonialism at the hands of a rising British colonial super power), and after this point; the US has gradually become the worlds largest military, diplomatic, economic, and democratic super power; creating a more peaceful and prosperous world than what came before it, for the most part encouraging the spread of democracy, the ending of European colonialism worldwide, and helping to bring an end to fascism, communism, and theocratic states in the last century. All of this has been done in spite of the old European cultural mentalities, and with plenty of mistakes made a long the way. The west of today is far removed from what it used to be during the Middle-Ages, and will continue moving away from it as time goes by. Democracy is the only form of government that has shown a country can still rise to become an influencial and great country on the world stage, while still allowing its people to live freely without the fear of being killed by the state for speaking out against a leader, or for choosing their own direction in life when during the Middle-Ages; you could only carry on the tradition of your parents, and changing that to become a wealthy member of society was almost impossible. If we could turn the tides within our own cultures, every other group of people in the world can and embrace freedom. For some it will be easier than others, that I will agree; but that doesn't mean it's impossible to achieve. All it will take is for the Arabs, Iranians, Central-Asians, North Africans, and others in the world to cast off the supremacist religious culture of the last millenium (or communist/tribalist for others), and to embrace prosperity and freedom as the way forward. If all countries were to eventually become democracies, this would be a path to world peace; which is what any sane or rational human being wants at the end of the day, and what all the demagogs, tyrants, and religious extremists will oppose and will divide us so they can gain their own power over others, and enslave us all. The only way democracy will spread is with military intervention, I know people will not like to hear that, but it is completely true when you look at all revolutions throughout human history; none of them have ever happened without the help (financial/military backing) of another powerful state; democracy or otherwise. India is sitting on the winning hand in terms of it being a democracy, and a growing world power looking to increase its prosperity. It fought a colonial power/tyrants in order to gain independence (British, Mughals, etc...), and is going through a middle stage of isolationism; just like the United States. I think by now you see where I am coming from, and why it is I am here on the defense forums. Democracy as a movement is a passion of mine, and I see Indians as brothers in a struggle for freedom and peace.

The choice is ultimately up to the Indians though to decide how they are going to make the next century be for them. Are they going to remain isolationist? Then throw away the idea of becoming a super power, because it will never happen. If you want to grow and have a mark on the world stage, the Indians will need to be interventionist, just like the US during the First and Second World Wars onwards. Since democracy is a shared form of government, India can play a role in spreading it across the world the same way America has in the past (mostly), and this will gain India large amounts of diplomatic concessions in the west, and will help India to forge alliances with them in the long run against aggressive dictatorships like the CCP. No matter how many bumps in relations the US has had with India in the past, they share similar long term goals; it would be foolish for India to simply remain neutral with them, or to side with everyone thinking it can remain neutral forever in a conflict between civilization (democracy) and totalitarianism. That will be counter to your cause in the long run. Many of you wont believe me, and for many of you who are skeptical due to the past; that is understandable, but if you care about the spread of peace as I've heard many Indians say, then for some of you; you will need to swallow your pride and realize accepting western help is not a sign of being subjugated, or becoming a lesser pawn of the US. Stop expecting the US to give you state of the art technology in order to maintain an alliance when you are still on good terms with Russia, Iran, and Vietnam; the first two states of which would not come to your aid if a serious war did break out, and the US would simply fear giving technology to India could find its way into the hands of the above, just like how Chinas and Pakistans weapons have found themselves in all sorts of interesting places, to say the least. Perhaps what I am saying is falling on deaf ear, I sincerely hope not. You have had attempts to improve relations already under Bush, and some attempts under Obama so far; so I know what I am saying is not false.

Consider wisely.

:india:
 

Armand2REP

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Firstly, you and I have the opposite ways of looking at China. You think it is basically communists disguising as capitalists, I think it is a bunch of capitalists hiding behind a communist mask.
On the other hand, democracy is definitely useful for everyone, but maynot be possible for everyone. People still caught in a Feudalistic mindset, like in Afghanistan (or Saudi Arabia), it might not be tenable.
Don't be confused for one second. China is NOT capitalist behind any mask. It is centrally planned and state run to its core. Only periphery markets operate under any capitalist guise. The Chinese education system does not teach capitalism or innovation, you only get that with Chinese studying in Western schools that pick it up.
 

civfanatic

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Don't be confused for one second. China is NOT capitalist behind any mask. It is centrally planned and state run to its core. Only periphery markets operate under any capitalist guise. The Chinese education system does not teach capitalism or innovation, you only get that with Chinese studying in Western schools that pick it up.
China is essentially state capitalist. Meaning that the government runs companies according to capitalist (market) principles.

It works in the beginning, but is it sustainable? Such a system stifles private enterprise and innovation.
 

Armand2REP

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China is essentially state capitalist. Meaning that the government runs companies according to capitalist (market) principles.

It works in the beginning, but is it sustainable? Such a system stifles private enterprise and innovation.
The government runs companies according to state rules which they set. Ever notice when Chinese try to run business outside the country it fails miserably? Chinese economy is based on monopolies. That is certainly not capitalism. When they are forced to compete, their only option is to underbid everyone with slave labour goods.
 

civfanatic

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When they are forced to compete, their only option is to underbid everyone with slave labour goods.
Well, that's capitalism. They make the cheapest goods, which are the most competitive and thus sell the most.
 

Armand2REP

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Well, that's capitalism. They make the cheapest goods, which are the most competitive and thus sell the most.
Sweatshops are not capitalism, it is communism. A) they are state owned and B) wages do not meet worker demands. The very definition is private firms making profits to pay wages that meet the demand of the labour market.
 

ace009

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By this stage the Renaissance was occuring, followed by the Age of Enlightenment where the first democratic state was created (The US in 1776, and it was born out of fighting colonialism at the hands of a rising British colonial super power), and after this point; the US has gradually become the worlds largest military, diplomatic, economic, and democratic super power; creating a more peaceful and prosperous world than what came before it, for the most part encouraging the spread of democracy, the ending of European colonialism worldwide, and helping to bring an end to fascism, communism, and theocratic states in the last century. All of this has been done in spite of the old European cultural mentalities, and with plenty of mistakes made a long the way. The west of today is far removed from what it used to be during the Middle-Ages, and will continue moving away from it as time goes by. Democracy is the only form of government that has shown a country can still rise to become an influencial and great country on the world stage, while still allowing its people to live freely without the fear of being killed by the state for speaking out against a leader, or for choosing their own direction in life when during the Middle-Ages; you could only carry on the tradition of your parents, and changing that to become a wealthy member of society was almost impossible. If we could turn the tides within our own cultures, every other group of people in the world can and embrace freedom. For some it will be easier than others, that I will agree; but that doesn't mean it's impossible to achieve. All it will take is for the Arabs, Iranians, Central-Asians, North Africans, and others in the world to cast off the supremacist religious culture of the last millenium (or communist/tribalist for others), and to embrace prosperity and freedom as the way forward. If all countries were to eventually become democracies, this would be a path to world peace; which is what any sane or rational human being wants at the end of the day, and what all the demagogs, tyrants, and religious extremists will oppose and will divide us so they can gain their own power over others, and enslave us all. The only way democracy will spread is with military intervention, I know people will not like to hear that, but it is completely true when you look at all revolutions throughout human history; none of them have ever happened without the help (financial/military backing) of another powerful state; democracy or otherwise. India is sitting on the winning hand in terms of it being a democracy, and a growing world power looking to increase its prosperity. It fought a colonial power/tyrants in order to gain independence (British, Mughals, etc...), and is going through a middle stage of isolationism; just like the United States. I think by now you see where I am coming from, and why it is I am here on the defense forums. Democracy as a movement is a passion of mine, and I see Indians as brothers in a struggle for freedom and peace.

The choice is ultimately up to the Indians though to decide how they are going to make the next century be for them. Are they going to remain isolationist? Then throw away the idea of becoming a super power, because it will never happen. If you want to grow and have a mark on the world stage, the Indians will need to be interventionist, just like the US during the First and Second World Wars onwards. Since democracy is a shared form of government, India can play a role in spreading it across the world the same way America has in the past (mostly), and this will gain India large amounts of diplomatic concessions in the west, and will help India to forge alliances with them in the long run against aggressive dictatorships like the CCP. No matter how many bumps in relations the US has had with India in the past, they share similar long term goals; it would be foolish for India to simply remain neutral with them, or to side with everyone thinking it can remain neutral forever in a conflict between civilization (democracy) and totalitarianism. That will be counter to your cause in the long run. Many of you wont believe me, and for many of you who are skeptical due to the past; that is understandable, but if you care about the spread of peace as I've heard many Indians say, then for some of you; you will need to swallow your pride and realize accepting western help is not a sign of being subjugated, or becoming a lesser pawn of the US. Stop expecting the US to give you state of the art technology in order to maintain an alliance when you are still on good terms with Russia, Iran, and Vietnam; the first two states of which would not come to your aid if a serious war did break out, and the US would simply fear giving technology to India could find its way into the hands of the above, just like how Chinas and Pakistans weapons have found themselves in all sorts of interesting places, to say the least. Perhaps what I am saying is falling on deaf ear, I sincerely hope not. You have had attempts to improve relations already under Bush, and some attempts under Obama so far; so I know what I am saying is not false.

Consider wisely.

:india:
I agree with the first part of your long thesis, however, I do not agree with some part of the later. Firstly, democracy, although the only form of working government, is certainly not a flawless one. Yes, I still like democracy better than say - Theocracy, dictatorship, communism, tribal chiefdom, "peoples democracies" etc. As Churchill said "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." (from a House of Commons speech on Nov. 11, 1947).
About USA "spreading democracy", there have been just as many instances of the USA intervening (overtly or covertly) to upend democratically elected left-leaning governments as they have intervened to help put in democratically elected governments. Actually "spreading democracy" is NEVER the goal of USA foreign policy. "Protecting US interests" is (as it should be). USA is not an ideological megalith - it is a capitalist system, where every action is well thought out and planned only after risk-rewards analysis.
Let me give you a list of Latin American countries where over the years democratically elected governments have been defeated by military coups and the USA have actually sided with the military leaders.
El Salvador (General Maximilio Hernández- 1932)
Nicaragua (The Somozas)
Guatemala (General Efrain Rios Mont)
Honduras (Roberto Suazo Cordova)
Panama (General Manuel Noriega)
Pinochet, (Chile)
Batista (Cuba)

The list for the rest of the world is actually much much longer and bloody.
As for being interventionist, I hope India does not become too interventionist in the future. American interventionism has created more problems than solved them - Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, each of them were influenced/ created by USA backed dictators/ "freedom fighters".
 

AOE

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Oh I certainly don't think democracy is perfect, and I like that quote by Churchill; it's spot on. The problem when criticising democracy is if people dismiss it outright and say that it's no better than monarchism, fascism, communism, tribalism, theocracy, etc... then what exactly are we left to conclude with other than going back to those sorts of depraved systems? Let's just say it's something I don't endorse.

The US has made plenty of mistakes in the past, many of which you will note were propped up by Henry Kissinger at one point or another (Pinochet is a good example of this). Batista was certainly not good, but he killed less people than Castro did, which is a bit of a grey area. Some of these regimes were also set up to counter Soviet influence under Reagan, and I know they weren't democratic either but they were still nowhere near as oppressive or genocidal as those supported by the communists. Just look up the statistics for any given country. The days of American direct intervention into a country to bring about democracy is unpopular ever since Vietnam, and people are lazy and complacent; they would complain less if CIA handled it rather than going on in the ground. Had they not have responded, then you would get the other response of 'well America hasn't done anything about <insert country we haven't intervened yet that is run by a dictatorship>' which serves to do nothing more than be defeatist. America can't intervene in every dictatorship tomorrow, be victorious, place a successful democracy there within 10 years, and simply leave like many people seem to think how this all works. It's sad to say this but unless the US is openly attacked somehow, people will always want to have it both ways. Many people also forget or perhaps haven't realized that the Americans did encourage European countries to give up their dreams of colonialism, particularly the British after the second world war; so I would say their attempts to bring about democracy outweigh their attempts to do otherwise.

I think the line about whether the US solely protects its interests or not is counter-intuitive, one-sided, and bulldozed into the ground in the greater scheme of things. It is suicidal for any country to go for a prolonged war with another without some kind of economic incentive involved, but if that's some kind of major counter-argument; then they are asking the impossible. Perhaps people would prefer the US to go back to the days of isolationism, during the first and second world wars, and before then. Apparently the world was a much better place then, lol.

As for Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, etc... there were many local people who were incredibly grateful for Americas intervention in 2003 to remove Saddam from Iraq; one of the worlds most calculated and brutal dictators since Hitler and Stalin. My criticism towards American involvement here is about how the CIA brought the Baathists to power, how Jimmy Carter gave the green light for the Iran-Iraq war to happen, and how 1993 should have seen the end of Baathism in Iraq; not just Kuwait. Instead the intervention was delayed another 10 years, and Bush/Blair overconfidently put far too much emphasis on WMDs rather than the other point of regime change. Despite all this, Iraq now has a shot of moving on from decades of oppression under Saddam, and it's not something that will happen at the click of a finger like some people expect. Same for Afghanistan; this is a country that has been torn apart by different super powers over the last two centuries, aswell as tribalism, and where time has stood still for 1000 years. Expecting a flourishing democracy there in 10 years is beyond unrealistic, as it looks as if it may take at least a few more decades for everything to normalize.

Iran has been controlled by the kinds of 'anti-western' government that you would think people would love and support (well, they did initially lol), if not for the fact that it has shown itself to be incredibly nihilistic and at the same time, wanting to get its hands on nuclear weapons. Just like how many Iranians cheered when the Israelis carried out Operation Opera, there are many Arabs, and even some Iranians who would like to see a similar thing happen to the Iranian nuclear program; although you wont hear that in the media.
 
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amoy

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Sweatshops are not capitalism, it is communism. A) they are state owned and B) wages do not meet worker demands. The very definition is private firms making profits to pay wages that meet the demand of the labour market.
1)didn't France also have sweatshops before? or even today?
2) doesn't France also have lots of 'state owned' firms?

Now tell me your definition abt Kapitalism
 

Armand2REP

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1)didn't France also have sweatshops before? or even today?
2) doesn't France also have lots of 'state owned' firms?
1) Not really...
2) Not lots, maybe a dozen left.

Now tell me your definition abt Kapitalism
Are you trying to say China is somehow capitalist?
 

AOE

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lol 'Kapitalism', do you think you're Karl Marx or something?
 

civfanatic

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Sweatshops are not capitalism, it is communism. A) they are state owned and B) wages do not meet worker demands.
A) That's why it's called "state" capitalism.
B) Capitalism has nothing to do per se with meeting workers' demands. If you look at the history of capitalism, it wasn't until the early 20th century that worker demands like an eight-hour work day, minimum wage, etc. were met in the West due to successful lobbying by unions. In the rest of the world, these things have yet to be met.


The very definition is private firms making profits to pay wages that meet the demand of the labour market.
The whole point of capitalism is to make money (profit). You do that by paying people as little as possible.
 

Armand2REP

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A) That's why it's called "state" capitalism.
That term is an oxymoron.

B) Capitalism has nothing to do per se with meeting workers' demands. If you look at the history of capitalism, it wasn't until the early 20th century that worker demands like an eight-hour work day, minimum wage, etc. were met in the West due to successful lobbying by unions. In the rest of the world, these things have yet to be met.
Capitalism is based upon "voluntary wage labour" not slave trafficked sweat shops.

http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=56860

The whole point of capitalism is to make money (profit). You do that by paying people as little as possible.
Capitalism is an economic and political system based on PRIVATE firms making profit that in turn supplies a voluntary labour market.
 

civfanatic

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That term is an oxymoron.
Yes, it's as oxymoronic as "communist state".

Do you believe that "communist states" exist?


Capitalism is based upon "voluntary wage labour" not slave trafficked sweat shops.
People work in sweatshops because they have no other economic alternative. They are not "forced", but they are "compelled". It's work or die.


Capitalism is an economic and political system based on PRIVATE firms making profit that in turn supplies a voluntary labour market.
1) Capitalism is not a political system at all.
2) The Chinese economy is controlled and directed by the state in a capitalist manner, through the capitalist wage system. Thus, China can be described as "state capitalist".
 

Armand2REP

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Yes, it's as oxymoronic as "communist state".

Do you believe that "communist states" exist?
There is nothing oxymoron about "communist state." State capitalist is an oxymoron as it has to be PRIVATE firms.

People work in sweatshops because they have no other economic alternative. They are not "forced", but they are "compelled". It's work or die.
Look at the video, it is not the case.

1) Capitalism is not a political system at all.
cap·i·tal·ism Noun /ˈkapətlˌizəm/ listen

* An economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state

http://www.google.com/dictionary?q=...&ei=F7iXTZrwGMq2tgfrqdmyDA&sqi=2&ved=0CBQQkQ4

2) The Chinese economy is controlled and directed by the state in a capitalist manner, through the capitalist wage system. Thus, China can be described as "state capitalist".
Owned by the state, directed by monopolies by the state directed through wages below market value. Thus, China in no way can be described as capitalist, much less a term that is an oxymoron. The term you are looking for is Socialist, they were the only ones to use it.
 

civfanatic

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There is nothing oxymoron about "communist state." State capitalist is an oxymoron as it has to be PRIVATE firms.
The true definition of communism is a "classless, stateless, society in which all property is owned by the people in common".

Now, how can a stateless society have a state?


Look at the video, it is not the case.
I doubt all 700 million Chinese workers are slaves. I'm sure at least some work out of free will.


cap·i·tal·ism Noun /ˈkapətlˌizəm/ listen

* An economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state

http://www.google.com/dictionary?q=...&ei=F7iXTZrwGMq2tgfrqdmyDA&sqi=2&ved=0CBQQkQ4
Sorry to say, but "Google dictionary" is wrong.

Capitalism is purely an economic system. A country can be "capitalist" regardless of its political system. For example, Taiwan and South Korea were both dictatorships before, but they had a capitalist economic system.


Owned by the state, directed by monopolies by the state directed through wages below market value. Thus, China in no way can be described as capitalist, much less a term that is an oxymoron. The term you are looking for is Socialist, they were the only ones to use it.
Some describe China as socialist, and I agree that there are many elements of China that can be described as "socialist", but "socialism" itself cannot wholly describe China.

China is more similar to Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany in its politicoeconomic functioning than other "socialist" countries like the Soviet Union.
 

Armand2REP

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I am not going to bother arguing the differences of Socialist and Communist ideologies, that debate has been going on for a hundred years. "State Capitalist" is a Marxist term so it has a certain connotation on your philosophy when you use it unless you don't know better.

China is a mix of Socialist and Communist principles, but capitalism is not in there. It requires free markets which it don't have when state monopolies run the show, it requires private ownership and not seeing tens of thousands being sold into slavery every year.
 

p2prada

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Chinese capitalism isn't American capitalism. That's about it and makes all the difference in the world.

India is a mix of both. But we define ourselves as Socialist.
 

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