INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[vampyrbladez]

insas is mostly found with maoists.

Soon we'll snuff out the commies so we need to either destroy the INSAS or sell them in a single shot, hole drilled in the gas port configuration.

 

[Gessler]

View attachment 44472
This is going to be history soon

soon*

* In about 10 years.

Replacing them all with SIGs, AKs (and others) will be a very long process. Reckon by 2030 we'll still have few numbers in service with IA units.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

View attachment 44472
This is going to be history soon

This process is going to take quite a few years as there are nearly 2 million INSAS that need to be replaced.

 

[sorcerer]

CRPF Gets 500 Trichy Assault Rifles
TRICHY: The first batch of 500 Trichy Assault Rifles (TAR), developed by Ordnance Factory of Tiruchirappalli (OFT), was handed over to the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) on Thursday.
OFT sources said that CRPF had ordered a total of 6,167 assault rifles. The order was placed after extensive field trials.

https://dharmakshethra.com/crpf-gets-500-trichy-assault-rifles/

 

[Aaj ka hero]

WELL IT LOOK LIKE I AM THE ONLY ONE WHO IS WAITING FOR INDIGENOUS WEAPONS to finish the PAIN FULL MEMORY CAUSED BY the INSAS.
Becuase all here are busy with Saying good good words for SIG AND AK,
Hope some INDIGENOUS WEAPON DO COME IN FUTURE AND SHATTER THESE FOREIGN WEAPONS out of here.
Anyway I think we can learn from British here.
also they did upgrade
Pathetic patriotic fools, when they can have a German rifle as well as french, beligium and also US rifle.... they are busy with their own rifle.
THEY CAN LEARN SOMETHING FROM INDIAN ARMY.
LAGTA HAI VIDESHI will always be considered best.
Well nobody knows in INDIA though that it TAKE YEARS to reach that level of performance which require DEDICATION, PRIDE, PATIENCE, OUT OF THE BOX THINKING in the decision makers as well as in the people.
AND mind though british tested it in Afghanistan operation in FULL MODE too despite it's apparent problem.
Now, I am coming to know why that bastard Churchill said "Indians don't know how to run a country", he was right in some sense.
Also they use it for parade too.
Meanwhile here it is opposite.
Oye.... Can somebody please change the thread name to SIG AND AK-203 AS WELL AS CARACAL,
Maybe it can bring some Americans, Russians and Emirati here.
And please don't reply me by giving some facts I know how much insas was crappy and what happened with Excalibur program?I know this pathetic khichdi of india army, government, ministry and ofb.

 

[vampyrbladez]

WELL IT LOOK LIKE I AM THE ONLY ONE WHO IS WAITING FOR INDIGENOUS WEAPONS to finish the PAIN FULL MEMORY CAUSED BY the INSAS.
Becuase all here are busy with Saying good good words for SIG AND AK,
Hope some INDIGENOUS WEAPON DO COME IN FUTURE AND SHATTER THESE FOREIGN WEAPONS out of here.
Anyway I think we can learn from British here.
also they did upgrade
Pathetic patriotic fools, when they can have a German rifle as well as french, beligium and also US rifle.... they are busy with their own rifle.
THEY CAN LEARN SOMETHING FROM INDIAN ARMY.
LAGTA HAI VIDESHI will always be considered best.
Well nobody knows in INDIA though that it TAKE YEARS to reach that level of performance which require DEDICATION, PRIDE, PATIENCE, OUT OF THE BOX THINKING in the decision makers as well as in the people.
AND mind though british tested it in Afghanistan operation in FULL MODE too despite it's apparent problem.
Now, I am coming to know why that bastard Churchill said "Indians don't know how to run a country", he was right in some sense.
Also they use it for parade too.
Meanwhile here it is opposite.
Oye.... Can somebody please change the thread name to SIG AND AK-203 AS WELL AS CARACAL,
Maybe it can bring some Americans, Russians and Emirati here.
And please don't reply me by giving some facts I know how much insas was crappy and what happened with Excalibur program?I know this pathetic khichdi of india army, government, ministry and ofb.

The original SA80 aka the L85A1 was an absolute OFB level disaster. The Germans from H&K, then owned by BAE Systems essentially rebuilt the gun from scratch keeping only the position of the receiver as the constant. This new variant was called the L85A2.

Even the new variant, the L85A3 has been made with more German help.

https://www.guns.com/news/2019/09/18/heckler-koch-wins-contract-to-upgrade-british-military-rifles

 

[Ujjain]

Soon we'll snuff out the commies so we need to either destroy the INSAS or sell them in a single shot, hole drilled in the gas port configuration.

Is it possible

WELL IT LOOK LIKE I AM THE ONLY ONE WHO IS WAITING FOR INDIGENOUS WEAPONS to finish the PAIN FULL MEMORY CAUSED BY the INSAS.
Becuase all here are busy with Saying good good words for SIG AND AK,
Hope some INDIGENOUS WEAPON DO COME IN FUTURE AND SHATTER THESE FOREIGN WEAPONS out of here.
Anyway I think we can learn from British here.
also they did upgrade
Pathetic patriotic fools, when they can have a German rifle as well as french, beligium and also US rifle.... they are busy with their own rifle.
THEY CAN LEARN SOMETHING FROM INDIAN ARMY.
LAGTA HAI VIDESHI will always be considered best.
Well nobody knows in INDIA though that it TAKE YEARS to reach that level of performance which require DEDICATION, PRIDE, PATIENCE, OUT OF THE BOX THINKING in the decision makers as well as in the people.
AND mind though british tested it in Afghanistan operation in FULL MODE too despite it's apparent problem.
Now, I am coming to know why that bastard Churchill said "Indians don't know how to run a country", he was right in some sense.
Also they use it for parade too.
Meanwhile here it is opposite.
Oye.... Can somebody please change the thread name to SIG AND AK-203 AS WELL AS CARACAL,
Maybe it can bring some Americans, Russians and Emirati here.
And please don't reply me by giving some facts I know how much insas was crappy and what happened with Excalibur program?I know this pathetic khichdi of india army, government, ministry and ofb.

INSAS was a good concept and a good prototype. But it's serial production was crappy. It's just that our ofb guys are indifferent to army's demands. They just don't care if some dude in combat uniform dies somewhere. Everything is fine for them as long as those leeches keep on sucking our personnel's blood and government's money. It's them and only them that we have to lose a potentially good firearm.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

The original SA80 aka the L85A1 was an absolute OFB level disaster. The Germans from H&K, then owned by BAE Systems essentially rebuilt the gun from scratch keeping only the position of the receiver as the constant. This new variant was called the L85A2.

Even the new variant, the L85A3 has been made with more German help.

https://www.guns.com/news/2019/09/18/heckler-koch-wins-contract-to-upgrade-british-military-rifles

Yes I know that sirji, we could had done the same too.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Some interesting developments :

• Rifle Factory Ishapore has been made the nodal factory for the development of 7.62x51mm Assault Rifle as per the latest requirement of Indian Army. ARDE has also been associated in this project. Accordingly, the work project is being carried out at this factory. 50 Nos. 7.62x51mm Assault Rifles with RFI design have already been assembled and test fired at RFI range with very much satisfactory result. As decided during 6th PMT meeting, 30 Nos. more Rifles to be manufactured afresh. These rifles are now under manufacturing. Simultaneously, components are also under manufacturing with ARDE Design.
• Rifle Factory Ishapore successfully developed 5.56mm Assault Rifle/INSAS 1C. The Rifle has been appreciated by various Army as well as MHA units. RFI is now receiving orders for this weapon from various agencies under MHA.
• Rifle Factory Ishapore has also developed 7.62mm Sniper Rifle. The Rifle is now under regular production as order for the same has also being received from agencies of MHA.
• Moreover, initiatives have been taken for developing Rifles & Pistol through Transfer Of Technology (TOT) from foreign weapon manufacturers. In this process Expression Of Interest (EOI) has been floated for development of 7.62x51mm Assault Rifle, 7.62x39mm Assault Rifle, 8.6mm Sniper Rifle & 9mm Pistol. Recently, M/s IWI has carried out firing demonstration of their offered weapon of 7.62x51mm caliber as a part of foreign collaboration.
• New IRD Project has been taken on CQB Carbine, under OFB sanction. Simultaneously manufacturing of components under progress. 02 Prototypes are almost ready.

http://rfi.gov.in/DESIGN/WWA.php?f=3

So key takeaways...INSAS-1C with the milled receiver has been ordered by MHA units and is in production.

They allude to 2 different 7.62x51mm efforts which is confusing...first is a joint Ishapore-ARDE 308 (don't think this is the R2 which is INSAS conversion to 308 done internally by Ishapore/OFB, rather I think we could see 308 version of MCIWS designed by ARDE and produced by Ishapore, which could be very similar to an AR-10 in operation, much like how original MCIWS was similar to AR-15).

The second is a foreign 308 manufactured under ToT.

So which way are they going?



One thing's for sure though...like I've been saying for quite a while the 72,400 SIGs we bought was only the fast-track chunk of a much larger requirement of 7.62x51 rifles for frontline forces. Much like how the fast-track deal for 93,000-odd off the shelf 5.56 carbines is only a small chunk of the larger 360,000 carbine requirement which has Make In India clause.

We could be going for up to 250,000 Make in India 7.62x51 rifles (my guesstimate).

+++

Last but not least...another key takeaway is that there's at least SOME movement for the procurement of a modern handgun to replace the old single-action licensed Browning HP aka Pistol Auto 9mm 1A. Hope to see a Glock 19X, IWI Masada or a SIG P320/M17 made in India as Army's service issue sidearm.

@abingdonboy @Unknowncommando 2 @rkhanna @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @ALBY @piKacHHu

There is definitely a DRDO, ARDE project to develop advanced 7.62x51 rifle. Me & Anup Sayre talked to DRDO personal on this issue at Def Expo at Chennai. He refused to discuss details but stated that design is more advanced than INSAS & SIG series

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Indian 7.62x39 designs

Trichy -2
Isapore
SSS
Indra
DRDO MCIWS
OFB Carbine

Indian 7.62x51 Assault rifle designs

OFB INSAS based
Undisclosed DRDO ARDE
OFB FN FAL Isapore

Indian 5.56x45

INSAS IBI
INSAS IC
INSAS excalibur
INSAS carbine 2 variants
INSAS Kalantak


Drdo MCIWS
DRDO OFB Carbine
SSS
Indra


6.8x45

DRDO MCIWS


5.45X30

OFB AMOGH
DRDO JVPC


7.62X51 SNIPER

OFB
SSS

8.6 SNIPER
SSS

12.7, 14.5, 20MM AMR

OFB Vidhwansk

5.56 LMG

INSAS


7.62X51 GPMG
OFG
OFG DRDO

12.7 X 107, 12.7X99

OFB based on Barett
OFB based on NSV

 

[Gautam Sarkar]

There is definitely a DRDO, ARDE project to develop advanced 7.62x51 rifle. Me & Anup Sayre talked to DRDO personal on this issue at Def Expo at Chennai. He refused to discuss details but stated that design is more advanced than INSAS & SIG series

Interesting. I wonder if they plan on using telescopic/caseless ammo. Other wise what could be secretive about a firearm design ? More advance that INSAS is totally believable, but SIG 716 is a great gun. A gun better than the 716 would be nothing short of revolutionary. I remember Textron giving briefings to ARDE and Army on 6.8 mm caseless telescopic ammo under the US-India DTTI, I wonder if that has anything to do with it. Given the Americans and their insistence on joint operability it is totally possible that they want the Indians to use the same ammo they plan to use in the future.

Is there anything else you can share from your interaction with the DRDO staff at Defexpo ?

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

one question

we are going towards 7.62 now. Will we also study about 6.8mm as west is trying to develop a new cartridge

 

[Aaj ka hero]

I say go for 7.62 because it is sure shot kill, seeing our scenario where jihadi hordes will come in near and if done nothing then permanent future, it is the best round.
Also, technology for making rounds light are required everywhere whether is it carbine level, assault level or battle level.
Giving 7.62 means economy of scale can be achieved and then whole industry will focus on reducing weight.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Defence Ministry: Acquisition Wing of Ministry of Defence has signed the capital acquisition contract with Israel Weapons Industries for procurement of 16,479 Light Machine Guns at Rs 880 crores


Defence Ministry: The contracted Negev 7.62X51 mm LMG is a combat-proven weapon and currently used by several countries around the globe. This LMG will greatly enhance the lethality and range of a soldier vis-a-vis the presently used weapon.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Some interesting comparisons between the 7.62x51mm / 6.8x43mm / 5.56x45mm ballistics by UK MoD.

https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgov...rmament/WednesdayLandmarkBAnthonyWilliams.pdf

 

[ezsasa]

Defence Ministry: Acquisition Wing of Ministry of Defence has signed the capital acquisition contract with Israel Weapons Industries for procurement of 16,479 Light Machine Guns at Rs 880 crores


Defence Ministry: The contracted Negev 7.62X51 mm LMG is a combat-proven weapon and currently used by several countries around the globe. This LMG will greatly enhance the lethality and range of a soldier vis-a-vis the presently used weapon.

Yay, OFB Belt fed LMG will be ordered soon.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Interesting. I wonder if they plan on using telescopic/caseless ammo. Other wise what could be secretive about a firearm design ? More advance that INSAS is totally believable, but SIG 716 is a great gun. A gun better than the 716 would be nothing short of revolutionary. I remember Textron giving briefings to ARDE and Army on 6.8 mm caseless telescopic ammo under the US-India DTTI, I wonder if that has anything to do with it. Given the Americans and their insistence on joint operability it is totally possible that they want the Indians to use the same ammo they plan to use in the future.

Is there anything else you can share from your interaction with the DRDO staff at Defexpo ?

It will not be that far out. Something near latest SIG and HK designs of 7.62x51 Assault rifles

 

[sydsnyper]

Check out the recoil balance on this one... its a babe..

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

CISF

BARC BHABHA kavach
OFB Excalibur MK-1

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

INSAS being used in high altitude