INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[ALBY]

Excalibur MK-1
Jharkhand Jaguar
View attachment 25227

Budd what is the feed back about this weapon from users?Can't say that it's accuracy ,handling and ergonomics are superior to a M4 or Sig due to its Ak patterned design.But what about ,when compared with Insas?

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

Budd what is the feed back about this weapon from users?Can't say that it's accuracy ,handling and ergonomics are superior to a M4 or Sig due to its Ak patterned design.But what about ,when compared with Insas?

I got feedback from my frds in JKP & Assam Police. They said it is superior than 1B1 and accuracy was never an issue for any INSAS variant. Hits bullseye. And Excalibur Mk-1 feels lighter and compact while operating.
But according to CRPF personnel who tested INSAS 1C 5.56 mm version , it is the best 5.56 Indian Made rifle ever. No magazine cracks in extreme condition & doesn't jam like earlier INSAS variants. I think OFB will start receiving orders of 1C soon.

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

OFB 40mm UBGL on INSAS & AK

 

[ALBY]

I got feedback from my frds in JKP & Assam Police. They said it is superior than 1B1 and accuracy was never an issue for any INSAS variant. Hits bullseye. And Excalibur Mk-1 feels lighter and compact while operating.
But according to CRPF personnel who tested INSAS 1C 5.56 mm version , it is the best 5.56 Indian Made rifle ever. No magazine cracks in extreme condition & doesn't jam like earlier INSAS variants. I think OFB will start receiving orders of 1C soon.

Inaad 1 c seems to be more refined and has provisions for rails.If the feed back is genuine then army going for heavier 7.62x51 caliber weapons will only kill 1C.And it seems suspicious that army suddenly opted for 7.62 just after the positive feedbacks from 1C went out...

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

Inaad 1 c seems to be more refined and has provisions for rails.If the feed back is genuine then army going for heavier 7.62x51 caliber weapons will only kill 1C.And it seems suspicious that army suddenly opted for 7.62 just after the positive feedbacks from 1C went out...

If you have noticed the pattern Army wanted 2.5 lakh foreign .308 rifles and 5.5 lakh Indian Made. But after failed trials of .308 AR of OFB they reversed the decision to 5.5 lakh foreign rifles and 2.5 lakh rifles from OFB. And now fast track purchase of 90K rifles and 70K carbines. Now the question is whether these 90K rifles are first lot of 5.5 lakh foreign rifles or they are separate ? And if Army wants 2.5 lakh OFB rifles then what is he development status of OFB's R2 ? I am totally confused.

 

[ALBY]

If you have noticed the pattern Army wanted 2.5 lakh foreign .308 rifles and 5.5 lakh Indian Made. But after failed trials of .308 AR of OFB they reversed the decision to 5.5 lakh foreign rifles and 2.5 lakh rifles from OFB. And now fast track purchase of 90K rifles and 70K carbines. Now the question is whether these 90K rifles are first lot of 5.5 lakh foreign rifles or they are separate ? And if Army wants 2.5 lakh OFB rifles then what is he development status of OFB's R2 ? I am totally confused.

The decision to go for .308 caliber itself was dumb.Its too uncontrollable,too bulky,low ammo carrying capacity,can't be used for suppressive fire,heavy noise which causes issues for battle field conversation.Use of such a rifle in CT ops will be a joke,that's why no one goes for a 7.62x51 in modern days.Only pakistan and turkey uses it.Even if they want a .308 weapon then there is FNFAL which could be modified to modern standards just like FAL had done recently and presented in many contemporary arms expos.
PS:The decision to go for foreign weapons for some extent is justifiable as the quality of OFB is renown.. .
But if Insas 1C or Ghatak could be modified to modern standards then there is no point in going for foreign weapons for regular infantry.
Truth is that neither OFB/DRDo nor army wants development of indigenous weapons.OFB does that role by creating mediocre products of crap quality compared even with that of North Korea or Iran .Army does that by changing the weapon requirements every fortnight.

 

[Chinmoy]

If you have noticed the pattern Army wanted 2.5 lakh foreign .308 rifles and 5.5 lakh Indian Made. But after failed trials of .308 AR of OFB they reversed the decision to 5.5 lakh foreign rifles and 2.5 lakh rifles from OFB. And now fast track purchase of 90K rifles and 70K carbines. Now the question is whether these 90K rifles are first lot of 5.5 lakh foreign rifles or they are separate ? And if Army wants 2.5 lakh OFB rifles then what is he development status of OFB's R2 ? I am totally confused.

As per OFB, they have a firm order of 2.5L 762. Now the requirement of IA is around 7.8 Lakh AR. It means another 5 Lakh + ARs would be of foreign origin under Make in India.

 

[Kchontha]

Since the Indian army carbine contest for replacing 9mm sterling carbine is heading towards single vendor situation due to withdrawal of colt (usa) and Barretta (italy) citing unrealistic time frames and stiff financial clauses, the non participants of FN Herstal (Belgium) and Heckler&Koch (Germany), and since insas excalibur/mk1c has also fulfilled IA gsqr, it's likely to be scrapped as always. Therefore it is the right time to ram dawn their throat this insas excalibur rifle, just like tejas fiasco against the iaf, because similar assault rifles such as ak, m4 and tavor etc are used in carbine role. One thing ofb need to do is that they should have a shorter barrel version of the current 16 inch one.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

H&K had had previously refused to sell guns to our SF because "human rights violations in Kashmir". Sanctimonious bastards! Selling guns to porks is fine though.

To sell rifle for Special forces with small order is the right occasion to demonstrate Human right commitment but when order becomes big, human right takes back seat. Human right has never a higher place than economic interest specially these sort of hypocrite western countries countries.

 

[Nebula]

To sell rifle for Special forces with small order is the right occasion to demonstrate Human right commitment but when order becomes big, human right takes back seat. Human right has never a higher place than economic interest specially these sort of hypocrite western countries countries.

So much for our PMs numerous foreign visits. Couldnt even convince germany about our fight against porki terrorism in kashmir.
No sanctions against pakistan for their involvement in terror export. Instead HK denies their tech for a major arms bid for us.
He shouldnt be traveling much. Its a waste of money. Instead he should stay in india and fix our common mans problems like huge petrol price and jobs.

 

[Chinmoy]

Since the Indian army carbine contest for replacing 9mm sterling carbine is heading towards single vendor situation due to withdrawal of colt (usa) and Barretta (italy) citing unrealistic time frames and stiff financial clauses, the non participants of FN Herstal (Belgium) and Heckler&Koch (Germany), and since insas excalibur/mk1c has also fulfilled IA gsqr, it's likely to be scrapped as always. Therefore it is the right time to ram dawn their throat this insas excalibur rifle, just like tejas fiasco against the iaf, because similar assault rifles such as ak, m4 and tavor etc are used in carbine role. One thing ofb need to do is that they should have a shorter barrel version of the current 16 inch one.

JVPC could fulfill carbine need instead of Excalibur or Mk1C. IA RFI too doesn't mention caliber specifically in it.

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

Coming soon...............................:biggrin2:

JVPC & OFB Belt Fed LMG

 

[ALBY]

JVPC could fulfill carbine need instead of Excalibur or Mk1C. IA RFI too doesn't mention caliber specifically in it.

The carbine mentioned is most probably short barrelled 5.56x45 rifle like M4 or G36C and not JVPC.Gone are days of carbines of 9mm or such small caliber's.Nowdays all armies use both full length rifle and carbine firing same ammo.
JVPC suits the needs of Police forces which needs less leathal weapons..

 

[Chinmoy]

The carbine mentioned is most probably short barrelled 5.56x45 rifle like M4 or G36C and not JVPC.Gone are days of carbines of 9mm or such small caliber's.Nowdays all armies use both full length rifle and carbine firing same ammo.
JVPC suits the needs of Police forces which needs less leathal weapons..

As per RFI, caliber is not fixed, but overall weight and length is a matter. Moreover the 5.45x30 caliber is much more lethal then 9 mm parabellum.

 

[darshan978]

I got feedback from my frds in JKP & Assam Police. They said it is superior than 1B1 and accuracy was never an issue for any INSAS variant. Hits bullseye. And Excalibur Mk-1 feels lighter and compact while operating.
But according to CRPF personnel who tested INSAS 1C 5.56 mm version , it is the best 5.56 Indian Made rifle ever. No magazine cracks in extreme condition & doesn't jam like earlier INSAS variants. I think OFB will start receiving orders of 1C soon.

EXPERIENCE IS THE KEY. IMPROVEMENT OVER PREVIOUS VARIANT [IN BLOCK] AND MAKE IT PERFECT!!! RATHER THAN MAKING NEW RIFLE. OFB IS GOING RIGHT WAY BY DOING THAT....

 

[ALBY]

As per RFI, caliber is not fixed, but overall weight and length is a matter. Moreover the 5.45x30 caliber is much more lethal then 9 mm parabellum.

5.56x30 is leathal than 9mm,but the concept of different calibers for carbine and rifle is almost non existent in almost all regular infantry units around the world .Even in IA nowadays use of 9mm carbine in regular infantry and RR are very much limited .
Use of multiple calibers at platoon level will create problems during ops if some one in unit ran out of ammo.Thats why 5.56x45 or 5.45x39 mm ammo are standardised for for both carbine and rifle in West and russia.
Also 5.56x30 will be inferior to 5.56x45 ,which will be another issue as soldiers complains 5.56x45 itself is underpowered.

 

[soikot banerjee]

Coming soon...............................:biggrin2:
View attachment 25301
JVPC & OFB Belt Fed LMG

Coming soon?
Is it inducted or are you getting some pics of it in srvice with some other force?

 

[Chinmoy]

5.56x30 is leathal than 9mm,but the concept of different calibers for carbine and rifle is almost non existent in almost all regular infantry units around the world .Even in IA nowadays use of 9mm carbine in regular infantry and RR are very much limited .
Use of multiple calibers at platoon level will create problems during ops if some one in unit ran out of ammo.Thats why 5.56x45 or 5.45x39 mm ammo are standardised for for both carbine and rifle in West and russia.
Also 5.56x30 will be inferior to 5.56x45 ,which will be another issue as soldiers complains 5.56x45 itself is underpowered.

You are talking about different calibers in IA? IA is in my opinion only force in world who at present is using ammo from 9 mm to 7.62 AK. Even the future procurement of 7.62x51 is not for across the force.

The current procurement of 70K carbine is for special purpose, not as an standard infantry weapon. Even if IA is moving towards replacing its whole 5.45 with 7.62, I think a bunch of 5.45 carbines would same some problem what you mentioned would be with 5.45x30 mm

Moreover 5.45 is not underpowered in any respect. But IA wants 7.62 only because of its stopping power. High speed of 5.45 is what makes it unfavorable while dealing with suicidal Jihadis. Else in case of anti Naxal fight, no one is complaining about 5.45 caliber.

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

Coming soon?
Is it inducted or are you getting some pics of it in srvice with some other force?

Yes first 50 out of 642 ordered by Chattisgarh police are already delivered but I have pics of JVPC during Railway Protection Force & CRPF trials. While OFB LMG hasn't received any order yet.

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

MP Police HAWK Commando
OFB Excalibur Rifle