INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[su35]

why do Insas LMG do not use box fed magazine

 

[tharun]

why do Insas LMG do not use box fed magazine

INSAS LMG uses 30/60 round detachable magazine.
It is not designed to take belt fed ammunition.

 

[pmaitra]

More pictures of the INSAS AR at Yudh Abhyas 2015

 

[Blood+]

why do Insas LMG do not use box fed magazine

Do you even understand the meaning of box magazine??!!And by the way,the correct term is box magazine and not 'box fed magazine'.

 

[pmaitra]

_____________________________________________________________________________

 

[punjab47]

1.) as far as civilian market, think it's better to go for military markets first. Western civilian market has very different conditions & needs.

2.) Insas Lmg doesn't take belt fed ammo, because in most scenarios mmg hmg will not be far.

Many countries especially in SE asia will love to have Indian equipment due to shared culture. That should be first priority market.

 

[ghost]

My concept of MCIWS family.

My concept of modified insas/excalibur

MCIWS+INSAS =

 

[su35]

My concept of MCIWS family.

My concept of modified insas/excalibur

MCIWS+INSAS =

Like your concept. But most of these can be done by adding holographic sight to existing excalibur

 

[su35]

1.) as far as civilian market, think it's better to go for military markets first. Western civilian market has very different conditions & needs.

2.) Insas Lmg doesn't take belt fed ammo, because in most scenarios mmg hmg will not be far.

Many countries especially in SE asia will love to have Indian equipment due to shared culture. That should be first priority market.

I really could not understand your 2nd point please explain it

 

[su35]

Do you even understand the meaning of box magazine??!!And by the way,the correct term is box magazine and not 'box fed magazine'.

Thanks for pointing it out. I actually mean belt fed ammunition but lost term while typing

 

[punjab47]

I really could not understand your 2nd point please explain it

Heavy or medium machine gun will be at border post.

No need for belt fed squad level Lmg.
Also I think Indian Army squad is larger than us army so you will have more lmgs in a squad. Also us army doctrine is everyone but squad Lmg uses semi auto.

Indian Army may be different so much extra firepower is not needed. Again for real battles there are hardened machine guns behind sand bags.

Insas Lmg has heavier barrel for more sustained fire but is kept similar for spare parts reasons.

Also at concept guy, all you did was add m4 stock & rails.

 

[ghost]

Like your concept. But most of these can be done by adding holographic sight to existing excalibur

Sir,

The idea behind the concept was not to design a new rifle from very basic but to use existing ARDE design with minimum alteration possible.I have taken MCIWS and INSAS features and mixed them.

The barrel ,gas block,front sight ,stock(which is retractable unlike excalibur) ,pistol grip ,muzzle brake and handguard (slightly modified) are from MCIWS .The rest of the rifle is orginal INSAS with stamped receiver,trigger group,and magazine.

 

[Hari Sud]

Excalibur Rifle and the Arms Merchant

Indian Army after the failure of four imported design competetion in last three years came to the conclusion that the rifles in the imported multi calibre competetion did not suit their requirement. They instead preferred an Indian design of Excalibur design, which is further development of INSAS rifle with improved everything.

The four imported with multicaliber designs which were still in prototype stage could not become a winning the competetion. Now their prestige was at stake. They just could not let an Indian design to go past their merchandise without a fight. So the arms merchants began a very sophisticated propaganda against Excalibur.

First, they pointed out that the Excalibur is also at a prototype stage, which is true. It has not been inducted in large scale and has not undergone a battle test in firefight anywhere with any of the armed forces including BSF, counter insurgency forces etc.

Second, not disputing the test results, they began to question GSQR specs. These were termed flawed and unachieveable. The forgoing may or may not be true. These were written to get a multicaliber rifle with future thirty years requirements of an individual soldier in mind, still the foreign arms merchant brought four of their prototypes to be tested to India. They should have thought about GSQR flaws earlier before entering the competetion.

Now their reputation is at stake as their designs has failed.

Third, at six times the price of regular INSAS rifle and four times the Excalibur rifle, the arms merchant's argument is that if sufficient numbers are ordered, prices will come down. Their argument is invalid. Only 66,000 are to purchased off the shelf in the initial phase. Price offered was way too high and fixed. The remaining one hundred thousand more to manufactured in India under technology transfer will not be marginally cheaper as they will set the transfer price of technology, parts and other machine tools so high that it won't be cheap to manufacture in India.

Fourth, they are mildly invalidating the Excalibur design as inadequate, although it passed the rigorous test. They argue that it is a soupped up INSAS. If INSAS has not succeeded well (that point of theirs is invalid as over years all the improvements to INSAS has made it a formidable weapon) with Indian soldiers, Excalibur will not succeed either. Read in between the lines, only their weapon will succeed. That argument is also invalid, the same argument can be advanced to M-16 rifle of the US army, it did not succeed in Vietnam war, but improvements over twenty years made it a formidable weapon although still questionable range and hitting power.

Fifth, Indian Ordinance Factories are out of date. They belong in fifties and sixties. These cannot produce a very modern weapon. The arms merchants may be correct here. The rifle manufacturing factories are grossly under achievers. They have not been upgraded to take on the task of today's complex manufacture. Our labour also need thorough reshuffle and re-education before a complex task of machining, stamping of exact parts is undertaken. Quality problems are serious issue during the production stage.

Sixth, the above propaganda war is being fought thru foreign magazines and news portals with Rahul Bedi and Raghuvanshi etc. Leading the charge. Other "Fanboys" defence forums pick up their arguments and question Excalibur design. I do not believe any of them (including me) have seen the business end of the Excalbur rifle, barring a few. But their crocodile tears become points to argue.

Seventh, the India Army although being asked to thoroughly evaluate the Excalibur rifle has scheduled testing in the hands of the soldiers. Pressed by the highest level of Army hierarchy, a number of high Army officials have decided to get involved in initial prototype manufacture stage. This is all designed to make the New rifle succeed. Unless a mess up happen (do not under estimate Arms Merchant Lobby) then Excalibur would be a standard rifle in the Indian Army. Specialized units in the Army may wield a Indian made multicaliber rifle, or Tavor rifle or M-4 or AK-47 etc., but standard weapon of of the Indian Army is expected to be Excalibur rifle.

A few high army officials may be unhappy, as the possibilities of commissions and bribes has been eliminated. Their last chance is to make this rifle unworthy if prototype defects are deliberately left in the rifle before a couple of hundred are sent to the army for testing. These defects may fail the rifle, but factories have to watch out for that.

Down with the Arms Merchants.

 

[su35]

Does INSAS has Sniper version ?

 

[jackprince]

@pmaitra Sir, What was the draw back of fn-fals ? I have seen many police divisions from AP police with these guns..Brazil still uses Fn-fals.

Too heavy and bulky. Did not have auto mode. Also IA wanted to convert to 5.6 mm.

It was reliable, but too old a design.

 

[Anikastha]

Too heavy and bulky. Did not have auto mode. Also IA wanted to convert to 5.6 mm.

It was reliable, but too old a design.

Means soldier has to press trigger for every bullet?

 

[jackprince]

Means soldier has to press trigger for every bullet?

Yes. It did not have burst mode either, like standard INSAS. Burst mode is where once you oress the trigger 3 rounds will be fired. It is better than semi auto and also conserves ammo. This tells that a lot of thinking actually wasvdone for designing INSAS. However, FN FAL has a far longer range that INSAS despite having to fire a bigger round and was more lethal. But a soldier can only carry so much of weight, which means less ammo than a soldier carrying INSAS could carry. Also, the tall size of it makes it not ideal for ops in either urban area or in jungle area.

FN FAL was outdated and so retired from armed forces and passed on to police forces. Also, what our armed forces used was not exactly FN FAL, but SLR which was a inspired derivative (to be polite) of FN FAL true, but improved from time to time by OFB. If I am not wrong, the inutual model was named SLR 1A1, and next modified one called 1B1. Not sure though.

 

[jackprince]

Does INSAS has Sniper version ?

No. No assault weapon, except may be IMI Galil has such a version. Also, Galil is more of a marksman rifle than a sniper ridle.

Sniping requires the rifle to have a long range and to fire a heavy enough round to put down the target with a single shot. INSAS has none of that.

 

[Anikastha]

Also, the tall size of it makes it not ideal for ops in either urban area or in jungle area.

FN FAL was outdated and so retired from armed forces and passed on to police forces. .

FN-FALS is used by AP POLICE ( mainly anti-naxal force "grey hound" I saw they during my visit to araku valey)
I am sure they were not insas..I am familiar with insas (Railway Protection Force uses insas)

 

[jackprince]

Does INSAS has Sniper version ?

No. No assault rifle, except may be IMI Galil has such a version. Also, Galil is more of a marksman rifle than a sniper ridle.

Sniping requires the rifle to have a long range and to fire a heavy enough round to put down the target with a single shot. INSAS has none of that.

Also INSAS is not a rifle meant for perfect shots. It is supposed to be a general purpose low maintenace low cost indegenous rifle which can shoot in almost all places.