INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[ghost]

Zittara is the 9mm version of MTAR-21 build by OFB under license and X-95 is the version of Micro Tavor.

Sir,

There is nothing such as Zittara ,it was cancelled due to reasons not known to me .OFB people are fools ,don't expect professionalism from them ,they still maintain the page for a product which does not exist.

 

[prateikf]

The OFB guys might wake up after 20 years claiming that had the technological know how to manufacture the Zittara all along. Same was the case with bofors. Zittara might have been shelved after OFB's Director was arrested on bribery charges and IMI was blacklisted.

 

[Chinmoy]

Sir,

There is nothing such as Zittara ,it was cancelled due to reasons not known to me .OFB people are fools ,don't expect professionalism from them ,they still maintain the page for a product which does not exist.

Then Sir, could you specify what sort of weapon is this? As far as I know, Zittara is simply the name given to the licensed version of MTAR-21 manufactured by OFB.

 

[ghost]

Then Sir, could you specify what sort of weapon is this? As far as I know, Zittara is simply the name given to the licensed version of MTAR-21 manufactured by OFB.

Sir,

The weapon you are referring to in the photo is Tavor ,GTARhttp://www.israel-weapon.com/default.asp?catid={AAB57C33-A5D8-4B23-A294-C9834494CEEA} to be precise .The one you are referring to as Zittara is X95 produced by IWI http://www.israel-weapon.com/?catid={184BBB3C-DBA5-445D-A83A-C73E6A6D53B4}.India import all TAVOR and its verisons.

 

[Future soldier VED]

Someone tell me about private small/fire arms manufacturers in India?

 

[Savaj]

Someone tell me about private small/fire arms manufacturers in India?

Number of big wigs like Tata and Jindal have license to manufacture small arms. But they are more focused on big ticket items like IFV/APCs, artillery, etc.

Although we may think that there is huge market for small arms in India considering military, CPMF, state police, civilian buyers, it ranks low on priority of big companies.

Smaller players are not able to enter this space as minimum investment that needs to be projected is Rs. 50 crore. It is not that technology is a concern, there are reputed firearms manufacturers out there we are ready for deep ToT, but those who can invest this kind of money are looking elsewhere. And those who want to manufacture small arms, do not have the capital. Chicken and egg game.

I strongly feel that if government reduces minimum investment to Rs. 5-10 crore (MSME), then it would generate lot of interest among smaller companies. Civilian market alone is big enough to justify this kind of investment. We all know about quality of civilian firearms manufactured by IOF after charging ridiculous prices.

 

[SafedSagar]

Indian Army pushes ahead with Excalibur rifle programme
Rahul Bedi, New Delhi - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
15 September 2015

The Indian Army is supporting the OFB's Excalibur 5.56 mm assault rifle programme. Source: OFB
The Indian Army is fast-tracking the development and induction of the indigenously designed Excalibur 5.56 x 45 mm assault rifle as it looks to plug a major operational void.

Senior army officials told IHS Jane's that 200 prototype Excalibur rifles, fabricated at the Ordnance Factory Board's (OFB's) Rifle Factory Ishapur (RFI) in eastern India, would undergo user evaluation trials later in 2015.

Once approved, the army plans to induct over 600,000 Excalibur for around INR36 billion (USD541 million), or around INR60,000 each.

The army opted for the Excalibur after scrapping its 2011 tender for 66,000 multicalibre assault rifles in June, as none of the four foreign models tested met its qualitative requirements.

The Excalibur is a retrofitted version of the Indian Small Arms System (INSAS) assault rifle, designed by India's Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and rejected by the army in 2010 for being "operationally inadequate".

The gas-operated, fully automatic rifle has a foldable butt, Picatinny rail for sights, sensors, and bipods, and its polycarbonate magazine is superior to that of the INSAS rifle, which was known to frequently crack in extreme hot and cold climates.

The Excalibur's barrel is 4 mm shorter than that of the INSAS and its hand guard is smaller.

Indian Army Chief of Staff General Dalbir Singh is strongly backing Excalibur as it is a 'Make in India' programme and so fits in with the government's preference for locally manufactured equipment. He has posted infantry officers at RFI to conduct test firings and offer advice on design improvement, sources said.

On 1 September Gen Singh, accompanied by Lieutenant General Sanjay Kulkarni, Director General Infantry (DGI), visited the RFI and personally conducted the 'water' and 'mud' tests on the rifle, which it reportedly cleared. Both officers also proposed ergonomic alterations to the rifle to render it more user-friendly.

The OFB aims to begin series producing Excalibur on modified INSAS production lines at RFI in 2016 .

Meanwhile, the army has still to decide the outcome of the 2010 tender for 44,618 close quarter battle (CQB) carbines, trials for which concluded in 2013. These featured Beretta's ARX 160, IWI's Galil ACE carbine, and Colt's M4.

The Indian Army has been without a carbine since 2010 when it removed the licence-built Stirling 1A1 9 mm sub-machine gun from service.

www.janes.com/article/54148/indian-army-pushes-ahead-with-excalibur-rifle-programme

 

[ShoorVeer]

@Kunal Biswas @sayareakd @ALBY @Ray @Shaitan

Something that I saw yesterday and wanted to share with you guys. Yesterday I visited Homeland Security Expo at the pragati maidan in New Delhi. OFB was present with a new addition this year that I was surprised to see. They actually have a test model of Anamika 9mm carbine.

The weapon is a reverse engineered version of the MP5. SAme blowback operation exact same cocking handle position, almost a true copy. But it also has picatinny rail for the optical sights, four rails at 3,6,9 and 12'o clock positions. The weapon is displayed there with a foregrip and OFB produced Red Dot Sight. It is being trialled by MHA. CISF, CRPF and state police expected to be biggest customers, most interest shown by them.

Other weapons are displayed there like Amogh, Excalibur with picatinny rail for optical sights and a Red Dot Sight(RDS) mounted on it, INSAS 1B1 BLACK, INSAS LMG, Ghatak AKM clone with picatinny foregrip and a red dot sight and a folding grip attached to it and finally our old SAF 9mm carbine (Sterling SMG).

A very senior OFB official was present today and he answered many of my curious questions! Also DsG of many CAPF and State police visited today so good personnels were present too. Kalankantak project is dead.

I would suggest that all the DFI members presently in Delhi must visit Pragati Maidan as many new technologies are being shown there. Entry is free and nearest gate is No. 7.

Hope you found it interesting, I did.

 

[Shadow]

@Kunal Biswas @sayareakd @ALBY @Ray @Shaitan

Something that I saw yesterday and wanted to share with you guys. Yesterday I visited Homeland Security Expo at the pragati maidan in New Delhi. OFB was present with a new addition this year that I was surprised to see. They actually have a test model of Anamika 9mm carbine.

The weapon is a reverse engineered version of the MP5. SAme blowback operation exact same cocking handle position, almost a true copy. But it also has picatinny rail for the optical sights, four rails at 3,6,9 and 12'o clock positions. The weapon is displayed there with a foregrip and OFB produced Red Dot Sight. It is being trialled by MHA. CISF, CRPF and state police expected to be biggest customers, most interest shown by them.

Other weapons are displayed there like Amogh, Excalibur with picatinny rail for optical sights and a Red Dot Sight(RDS) mounted on it, INSAS 1B1 BLACK, INSAS LMG, Ghatak AKM clone with picatinny foregrip and a red dot sight and a folding grip attached to it and finally our old SAF 9mm carbine (Sterling SMG).

A very senior OFB official was present today and he answered many of my curious questions! Also DsG of many CAPF and State police visited today so good personnels were present too. Kalankantak project is dead.

I would suggest that all the DFI members presently in Delhi must visit Pragati Maidan as many new technologies are being shown there. Entry is free and nearest gate is No. 7.

Hope you found it interesting, I did.

Did you take pics?

..............................................................

 

[ghost]

I was the first to post news about Anamika 9mm carbine ,I also remember predicting that most probably it will be an MP5 copy because I understand how OFB operates"copy cat" . Matlab how hard is it to design a 9mm carbine ????????Even if they wanted to take "inspiration from " at least they could show some creativity in design,I was praying to god that they develop a 9mm version of JVPC, it would have been a good design for 9mm carbine. They did the same with Ghatak now Anamika.

@ShoorVeer sir, Ray sir is no more among us in physical form,may god bless him , wherever and in whatever form he is now.

I have few questions for you:

1 Tell us about excalibur,build quality,colour,location of picatinny rails,any more refinement planned,will it be entering service ?
2 Tell us about Ghatak .
3 Tell us about MCIWS ,what talk do you have with OFB officals regarding it.


Now a request:

Whoever is present in Delhi right now,please go to the exhibition.If someone is going please take a good amount of photographs.Please also forward these suggestions to OFB officials.

1 Please incorporate retractable stock of MCIWS in EXCALIBUR,change the handguard ,bring in better design ,incorporate full length picatinny rail ,machined aluminium reciever like MCIWS.

2 Please change the handguard of amogh,incorporate better design. Redesign if possible.

3 Please incorporate a retractable or folding stock in ghatak,else make the present stock to fold.

4 Please design and develop a new and original 9mm pistol ,no copy.

5 Please design and incorporate better sling.

6 Please Improve fit and finish,Quality and refinement of your products.

7 Please show us innovation,creativity.

8 Please do your job properly ,and if you are so desperate to copy then copy Tavor,Scar,P90 etc .

 

[ShoorVeer]

Very sorry to hear about Ray sir. Im not a regular memeber here so I did not know. May God bless him!

@Shadow @ghost Yes I took a picture of the Anamika brochure publicly available to all listing its specifications and an image. Sadly no MCIWS is present there.

1. For Excalibur, it has cleared BPR&D trials, they recieved orders from state police only till now. He said not much interest shown by CAPF.
2. As of ghatak, same story. Only a stop measure to stop AKM import. Will get orders the Bulgarians got.
3. He had nothing to say about it. No idea. But he told that the CAPFs are waiting for a new "DRDO rifle" that is under trials.

As of build quality, Excalibur was same. Long foregrip, same folding stock, a small p-rail in place of insas rail and a 16" barrel. Official said p-rail can be added if user wants.Ghatak had the same fixed butt, p-railed foregrip.

The image of the brochure is available on the public domain and anyone can go and have a look at it at the event as it is open for the public.

 

[Shaitan]

@Kunal Biswas @sayareakd @ALBY @Ray @Shaitan

Something that I saw yesterday and wanted to share with you guys. Yesterday I visited Homeland Security Expo at the pragati maidan in New Delhi. OFB was present with a new addition this year that I was surprised to see. They actually have a test model of Anamika 9mm carbine.

The weapon is a reverse engineered version of the MP5. SAme blowback operation exact same cocking handle position, almost a true copy. But it also has picatinny rail for the optical sights, four rails at 3,6,9 and 12'o clock positions. The weapon is displayed there with a foregrip and OFB produced Red Dot Sight. It is being trialled by MHA. CISF, CRPF and state police expected to be biggest customers, most interest shown by them.

Other weapons are displayed there like Amogh, Excalibur with picatinny rail for optical sights and a Red Dot Sight(RDS) mounted on it, INSAS 1B1 BLACK, INSAS LMG, Ghatak AKM clone with picatinny foregrip and a red dot sight and a folding grip attached to it and finally our old SAF 9mm carbine (Sterling SMG).

A very senior OFB official was present today and he answered many of my curious questions! Also DsG of many CAPF and State police visited today so good personnels were present too. Kalankantak project is dead.

I would suggest that all the DFI members presently in Delhi must visit Pragati Maidan as many new technologies are being shown there. Entry is free and nearest gate is No. 7.

Hope you found it interesting, I did.

BRO GO AND GET SOME PICTURES!!!

 

[ShoorVeer]

BRO GO AND GET SOME PICTURES!!!

Sorry out of station this weekend. But suggest all DFI memebers in Delhi to go to pragati maidan. @Shaitan but I did post the picture of the brochure.

 

[Shaitan]

Sorry out of station this weekend. But suggest all DFI memebers in Delhi to go to pragati maidan. @Shaitan but I did post the picture of the brochure.

Which was a great find.

 

[Shaitan]

3.4 KG, this thing is heavier than the regular MP5s. They also gave INSAS's iron sights.

 

[ghost]

Very sorry to hear about Ray sir. Im not a regular memeber here so I did not know. May God bless him!

@Shadow @ghost Yes I took a picture of the Anamika brochure publicly available to all listing its specifications and an image. Sadly no MCIWS is present there.

1. For Excalibur, it has cleared BPR&D trials, they recieved orders from state police only till now. He said not much interest shown by CAPF.
2. As of ghatak, same story. Only a stop measure to stop AKM import. Will get orders the Bulgarians got.
3. He had nothing to say about it. No idea. But he told that the CAPFs are waiting for a new "DRDO rifle" that is under trials.

As of build quality, Excalibur was same. Long foregrip, same folding stock, a small p-rail in place of insas rail and a 16" barrel. Official said p-rail can be added if user wants.Ghatak had the same fixed butt, p-railed foregrip.

The image of the brochure is available on the public domain and anyone can go and have a look at it at the event as it is open for the public.View attachment 6282

Made my day,thanks! This means that if mciws clear trials it will see service at-least under CAPF,since CAPF are not interested in Excalibur .I would be surprised if Indian army adopt it as their service rifle.

 

[sayareakd]

@Kunal Biswas @sayareakd @ALBY @Ray @Shaitan

Something that I saw yesterday and wanted to share with you guys. Yesterday I visited Homeland Security Expo at the pragati maidan in New Delhi. OFB was present with a new addition this year that I was surprised to see. They actually have a test model of Anamika 9mm carbine.

The weapon is a reverse engineered version of the MP5. SAme blowback operation exact same cocking handle position, almost a true copy. But it also has picatinny rail for the optical sights, four rails at 3,6,9 and 12'o clock positions. The weapon is displayed there with a foregrip and OFB produced Red Dot Sight. It is being trialled by MHA. CISF, CRPF and state police expected to be biggest customers, most interest shown by them.

Other weapons are displayed there like Amogh, Excalibur with picatinny rail for optical sights and a Red Dot Sight(RDS) mounted on it, INSAS 1B1 BLACK, INSAS LMG, Ghatak AKM clone with picatinny foregrip and a red dot sight and a folding grip attached to it and finally our old SAF 9mm carbine (Sterling SMG).

A very senior OFB official was present today and he answered many of my curious questions! Also DsG of many CAPF and State police visited today so good personnels were present too. Kalankantak project is dead.

I would suggest that all the DFI members presently in Delhi must visit Pragati Maidan as many new technologies are being shown there. Entry is free and nearest gate is No. 7.

Hope you found it interesting, I did.

going there in hour or two, if they got the Anamika 9mm carbine, you will get the pic.

 

[Shaitan]

going there in hour or two, if they got the Anamika 9mm carbine, you will get the pic.

Or anything else there. Ghatak rifle too.

 

[ShoorVeer]

@Shaitan All other guns are present there with no modifications sadly and @sayareakd they have the Anamika carbine just like the one shown in the brochure posted above. Eagerly waiting for your detailed photos though

 

[sayareakd]

I have send pics to sanjiv Jino to post throught DFI Chat group. This is Indian version of MP5. 1966 first MP5 enter service so no patent issue as Patent got protection for 20 years.
it has three options safety, auto, where entire magazine will be empty in one trigger pull and regular option. It has barrel cooling locking option. Right now under development and testing.