INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[SajeevJino]

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Pictures from @sayareakd Sir

 

[SajeevJino]

More Pics .. via @sayareakd sir

 

[ShoorVeer]

@sayareakd Very good pictures sir. Enjoyed it as much as you!

 

[sayareakd]

guys here is where the Anamtika lock in to cool down the hot barrel

that way even if gun fell on ground it wont fire the gun. BTW it has space to put in suppress. So this is modern firearm.

 

[ghost]

Pakistan Ordnance Factories MP5P3 VS Heckler & koch MP5A5 VS Ordnance Factory Board ANAMIKA

Pakistan Ordnance Factories MP5P3

Heckler & koch MP5A5

Ordnance Factory Board ANAMIKA

Technical data (POF)__(HK)__(OFB)

CALIBRE (9mm x 19)__(9mm x 19)__(9mm x 19)

LENGTH:

BUTT FOLDED (490MM)__(550MM)__(495MM)

BUTT EXTENDED (660MM)__(690MM)__(680MM)


WEIGHT/WITHOUT MAGAZINE (2.54KG)__(3.1KG)__(3.4KG)


EFFECTIVE RANGE (100M)__(200m)__(200m)

RATE OF FIRE/ RPM (800)__(800)__(700-800)

MUZZLE VELOCITY[M/SEC] (400)__(400)__(400)

FEED /ROUND,BOX MAGAZINE (30)__(15/30)__(30)


OPERATION (POF&HK= delayed roller locked bolt system)__ (DELAYED BLOW BACK)

MECHANISM (LOCKED BOLT)__(LOCKED BOLT)__(OPEN BOLT)



SourceOFhttp://pof.gov.pk/products/Infantry_Weapons/Sub_Machine_GUN_MP5A2,_MP5P3/2/
HK http://www.heckler-koch.com/en/products/military/submachine-guns/mp5/mp5/technical-data.html
OFB http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/attachments/img_212999-jpg.6282/

[MOD Edit: Modified as per request from poster.]

 

[The enlightened]

Does ugly come free with all OFB weapons. Even 70's products have better finish than them.

 

[sreenevasachha]

OFB people started doing their job finally,

 

[Raj Malhotra]

A-7 took 19 years and name change to Ghatak while awaiting orders. Vidhwansak hardly got any. Anamika tera kya hoga?

Saya, weight difference can be due to pic rails.

 

[sayareakd]

A-7 took 19 years and name change to Ghatak while awaiting orders. Vidhwansak hardly got any. Anamika tera kya hoga?

Saya, weight difference can be due to pic rails.

This is just first gun as tech demo, its all metal. MP 5 is mix of metal and plastic parts. We too can bring down its weight.

 

[Chinmoy]

A-7 took 19 years and name change to Ghatak while awaiting orders. Vidhwansak hardly got any. Anamika tera kya hoga?

Saya, weight difference can be due to pic rails.

Going b the post of @ghost , I think the weight is also due to its barrel length. If its effective range is double than that of H&KP5, it means it does sport a longer barrel and it does justifies the weight. But as pointed out by @sayareakd, I think composites would bring down its weight considerably in its production version.

 

[Saichand K]

I was the first to post news about Anamika 9mm carbine ,I also remember predicting that most probably it will be an MP5 copy because I understand how OFB operates"copy cat" . Matlab how hard is it to design a 9mm carbine ????????Even if they wanted to take "inspiration from " at least they could show some creativity in design,I was praying to god that they develop a 9mm version of JVPC, it would have been a good design for 9mm carbine. They did the same with Ghatak now Anamika.

@ShoorVeer sir, Ray sir is no more among us in physical form,may god bless him , wherever and in whatever form he is now.

I have few questions for you:

1 Tell us about excalibur,build quality,colour,location of picatinny rails,any more refinement planned,will it be entering service ?
2 Tell us about Ghatak .
3 Tell us about MCIWS ,what talk do you have with OFB officals regarding it.


Now a request:

Whoever is present in Delhi right now,please go to the exhibition.If someone is going please take a good amount of photographs.Please also forward these suggestions to OFB officials.

1 Please incorporate retractable stock of MCIWS in EXCALIBUR,change the handguard ,bring in better design ,incorporate full length picatinny rail ,machined aluminium reciever like MCIWS.

2 Please change the handguard of amogh,incorporate better design. Redesign if possible.

3 Please incorporate a retractable or folding stock in ghatak,else make the present stock to fold.

4 Please design and develop a new and original 9mm pistol ,no copy.

5 Please design and incorporate better sling.

6 Please Improve fit and finish,Quality and refinement of your products.

7 Please show us innovation,creativity.

8 Please do your job properly ,and if you are so desperate to copy then copy Tavor,Scar,P90 etc .

From the RFP of RFI, huge numbers of Ghatak and Excalibur have already been ordered. What stings me is that leave alone a original 9mm pistol, they have not made copies of several famous pistols. I think Army suggested several ergonomic changes like handguard, retractable stock to Excalibur and things are still in progress. The final version of Excalibur is not know to media or any outsiders yet. Even my friends in RFI/OFB does not know what is happening between army and OFB in the matter of excalibur. But I feel this is the pattern that will be adopted by MoD.
1) Excalibur 5.56mm - to army but for assault teams (Ghatak forces) may get 7.62 mm MCIWS/Ghatak rifles
2) CAPFs gets 7.62mm - so 7.62mm version of MCIWS/Ghatak rifles
3) Paramilitary forces - Excalibur.
The status of JVPC/MSMC is still unknown. The naya entry is this anamika. We fu**ing have one proper army grade pistol people. Can't they make copies of some other pistols???

 

[ghost]

From the RFP of RFI, huge numbers of Ghatak and Excalibur have already been ordered. What stings me is that leave alone a original 9mm pistol, they have not made copies of several famous pistols. I think Army suggested several ergonomic changes like handguard, retractable stock to Excalibur and things are still in progress. The final version of Excalibur is not know to media or any outsiders yet. Even my friends in RFI/OFB does not know what is happening between army and OFB in the matter of excalibur. But I feel this is the pattern that will be adopted by MoD.
1) Excalibur 5.56mm - to army but for assault teams (Ghatak forces) may get 7.62 mm MCIWS/Ghatak rifles
2) CAPFs gets 7.62mm - so 7.62mm version of MCIWS/Ghatak rifles
3) Paramilitary forces - Excalibur.
The status of JVPC/MSMC is still unknown. The naya entry is this anamika. We fu**ing have one proper army grade pistol people. Can't they make copies of some other pistols???

Sir,

I feel that the design and concept of anamika is good ,what I fail to understand is why would they make the prototype out of steel?Why not with composites as is the norm nowadays.

Regarding excalibur, are you sure that things are still in progress and we will see further changes in it.I feel that this will be the final design regarding excalibur:

As @ShoorVeer sir has stated that as per his talks with higher OFB officials only police forces have ordered excalibur ,while CAPF has not shown any interest in it as they are waiting for new rifle from DRDO .We also know that a contingent of senior CAPF officials had visited ARDE ,where they were impressed by mciws and had conveyed them that they would like to adopt it as soon as it clear trials.Saurav jha has stated that army has shown interest in mciws.

So,as per the following information we can come to the conclusion that :
1 MCIWS is undergoing trials right now.
2 CAPF are not interested in excalibur.
3 CAPF want mciws.
4 Army is interested in mciws .

Now ,if mciws is under trials right now and if it clears trials then it would make more sense for army to adopt it in a calibre of their choice ,instead of going for excalibur.

As per my guess:

1 Army: there are three probability:

a)It will adopt excalibur. b)It will adopt mciws if it clear trials. c) It will issue fresh RFI in which OFB and other Indian private companies in jv with foreign firms will compete.(just like self propelled howitzer )

2 CAPF :95% chances are that they will adopt mciws if it clear trials ,If it fails then they will go for whatever army will order.

3 State Police Forces:They will be the main buyer of excalibur rifle .I would like them to induct anamika and jvpc also.

 

[Saichand K]

Sir,

I feel that the design and concept of anamika is good ,what I fail to understand is why would they make the prototype out of steel?Why not with composites as is the norm nowadays.

Regarding excalibur, are you sure that things are still in progress and we will see further changes in it.I feel that this will be the final design regarding excalibur:

As @ShoorVeer sir has stated that as per his talks with higher OFB officials only police forces have ordered excalibur ,while CAPF has not shown any interest in it as they are waiting for new rifle from DRDO .We also know that a contingent of senior CAPF officials had visited ARDE ,where they were impressed by mciws and had conveyed them that they would like to adopt it as soon as it clear trials.Saurav jha has stated that army has shown interest in mciws.

So,as per the following information we can come to the conclusion that :
1 MCIWS is undergoing trials right now.
2 CAPF are not interested in excalibur.
3 CAPF want mciws.
4 Army is interested in mciws .

Now ,if mciws is under trials right now and if it clears trials then it would make more sense for army to adopt it in a calibre of their choice ,instead of going for excalibur.

As per my guess:

1 Army: there are three probability:

a)It will adopt excalibur. b)It will adopt mciws if it clear trials. c) It will issue fresh RFI in which OFB and other Indian private companies in jv with foreign firms will compete.(just like self propelled howitzer )

2 CAPF :95% chances are that they will adopt mciws if it clear trials ,If it fails then they will go for whatever army will order.

3 State Police Forces:They will be the main buyer of excalibur rifle .I would like them to induct anamika and jvpc also.

I heard that changes in handguard, foldable fore grip will be done for Excalibur. Nice pic BTW....Where did u get this pic?

 

[ghost]

I heard that changes in handguard, foldable fore grip will be done for Excalibur. Nice pic BTW....Where did u get this pic?

Sir,

Can you elaborate more on the changes suggested in handguard? The stock was foldable from the very beginning, what I would like to see is a retractable stock like mciws(length could be adjusted).

Source of excalibur pic:http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news/multi-calibre-assault-rifle-make-in-india-vs-made-in-india/

 

[ShoorVeer]

@ghost Sir, I think that this is how armament will and
must take place:-

1. Excalibur to be used by army as a stop-gap measure till MCIWS or any imported maal is chosen as a standard rifle. See, a new design will be introduced and Excalibur is not a new design, its just an improved INSAS 1B1 which new grip, butt, rails and can fire in full auto. Hence, INSAS design will be phased out.

2. When the INSAS platform, which will be surely replaced (will give reasons) as it is not liked by many, they will need to introduce a LMG platform similar to the rifle. This is one of the main reasons why the foreign rifle tender was scrapped. How can you have a section LMG that uses a completely different kit (Logistical Nightmare ).

3.Also remember that these foreign companies take billions to even develop a specific version of their gun for you. Example:- M27IAR for marine corps. Imagine what beretta would have asked us if we had adopted the ARX.

4.MCIWS is something we havent done before. New mechanism, new design, new concept and most importantly that lower reciever. Made of one single Aluminium block, milled reciever. OFB will take a decade to upgrade all its factories to that standard.

5. MCIWS and MSMC are new and untested concepts that require at least 5-6 years of honest, rigourous trials to make it just like the user's specifications and expectations. This will take time.

6.Seems like ARMY has changed its training and doctrine. Auto weapons are now being inducted as a standard. The troops too will have to get used to it. And given the time we need to perfect MCIWS, we need excalibur to prevent our forces from getting stuck in the soviet era with INSAS.

7. Hence, dont expect MCIWS to become a standard rifle anytime before 2020. In the mean time you will also hear and see new LMG prototypes and MMG prototypes and Dragunov replacers from MCIWS platform. See, this is just the beginning, a new platform will roll out but take its time. Just like INSAS took from 1983 to 1999. But this time not much.

8. Actually I am happy that they are not ordering Excalibur in the CAPFs . As you must be knowing, weapons tend to get stuck in them. It took 60 years to replace .303 from them. Let the MCIWS family roll out and Ill be happy to see them adapt it. Till then stick with INSAS platform for logistics (Wars can come anytime). Yes, for full auto requirement swotch to Excalibur but in small numbers because if ordered much, they then wont be replaced and the CAPFs will get stuck with them.

9. As far as STATE POLICE is concerned, its a funny situation. On one hand bihar police has a swat team of M4 equipped ACH helmet laden. Their 50% force must not be having their .303 replaced! And dont even expect them to shun STERLING by 2045 . In my opinion, replace all sterlings with Anamika just because MP5 magazines and familiarity has increased exponentially after 26/11. Many police forces now have it. As for rifles, buy Excalibur. Its full auto, 30 rds magazines and has picatinny rails so when the optical sights dont seem to be a luxury, you can mount them.

10. Lets not rush the new weapons (MCIWS & MSMC) and let them develop with all the support system needed. Let us till that time develop ACOG type efficient sights and red dot sights and let their distribution increase. Whats the point of carrying a modern AR BASED MCIWS with no good sights and iron sights?

 

[pmaitra]

I have been reading a lot of comments about reducing weight. Weight needs to be kept at a level so that they are not too much of a weight burden on the soldiers. Coming to SMGs and UZI-type guns, would a very light weight weapon make it difficult to operate?

 

[cobra commando]

'Hand in Hand' 2015: Chinese soldier tries out the INSAS LMG.

 

[brational]

Seems Nagas are well equipped.

Do you have more Photos from "Haathon me Haath"?

'Hand in Hand' 2015: Chinese soldier tries out the INSAS LMG.

 

[Shadow]

Seems Nagas are well equipped.

Do you have more Photos from "Haathon me Haath"?

The Nagas certainly seems well equipped but I think these stocks are limited and are only used for bilateral exercises.

 

[cobra commando]

Seems Nagas are well equipped.

Do you have more Photos from "Haathon me Haath"?

'Hand in Hand' 2015: Chinese soldier tries out the INSAS AR.