INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[sayareakd]

Re: New Rifles for Indian Army

I think only @Kunal Biswas and @Ray can say what's wrong with INSAS to not deserve a chance.

many be not fashionable for others.

 

[Yusuf]

Re: New Rifles for Indian Army

many be not fashionable for others.

Print a Versace on the fun?

Come on. Really I dont get this. A freaking gun has to be imported? It's not that we are talking about any specialized gun for special ops. It's like importing swords which is

 

[Rage]

Re: New Rifles for Indian Army

I think the Indian army is specifically interested in a UGBL with fire control system, standalone luminous-tip flip-up sights, multi-caliber barrel changeability and full T-O-T for the rifle.

From a technical-requirement perspective, I think the Galil ACE would be a good fit. Survivability in arid/tropical/frigid conditions will be the key, and its AK-47 pedigree should serve it well.

From the procurement perspective, I'm not so sure.

Its actually a matter of shame, a country of a billion population and still can't make a decent assault rifle.

It truly is.

 

[sayareakd]

Re: New Rifles for Indian Army

Its actually a matter of shame, a country of a billion population and still can't make a decent assault rifle.

may be army want fancy rifle, we can make it, provided army is willing to pay same price as is paid for fancy toys.

Please remember INSAS cost 25000 INR, rilfe which Army is going to buy will cost 5-6 times that amount.

So it is not competition of equal.

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

Re: New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

I think INSAS deserves a better chance......

if it is for the looks, the reason behind the rejection of INSAS is bad..........

 

[Ray]

Re: New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

I think INSAS deserves a better chance......

if it is for the looks, the reason behind the rejection of INSAS is bad..........

As I see it, INSAS is not really outdated.

It has served the IA well so far.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: New Rifles for Indian Army

I think only @Kunal Biswas and @Ray can say what's wrong with INSAS to not deserve a chance.

There is absolutely no problem with it, It just dont have some accessories and its a huge excuse for many to replace it..

Recently i was evaluating foreign part can be installed on INSAS, Surprisingly most AK modern parts can be fixed on INSAS without any modifications..

It truly is.

No disrespect rage, But that's bull crap.

 

[Rage]

Re: New Rifles for Indian Army

No disrespect rage, But that's bull crap.

Why do you think so? Can you please recount your experiences using the INSAS in comparison to foreign rifles of the same stock? I'd be happy to get your perspective as a primary user.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: New Rifles for Indian Army

I think so coz i used it..

1. INSAS 1b1 use iron sights with duel flip up sights for short ( 200 ) and long range ( 400 ), Its precision & Accuracy ( Grouping ) is good from average solider.

2. INSAS 1b1 takes not more than 50 secs to strip up fully..

3. INSAS 1b1 takes less than 20min for total clean up ( Every part ) in field area..

4. INSAS 1b1 work in mud and water so does over sand without proper cleaning..

5. INSAS 1b1 fires 120rnds continuously without oil spilling out or jamming / over heating up.

6. INSAS 1B1 dont make mush flash even at night..

7. INSAS 1B1 dont make lots of smoke either..

8. INSAS 1B1 empty weight is less than 3kgs..

Right now these are in my mind..

-------------------------------
-------------------------------

Used TAR-21 on range once, It was good experience but totally different philosophy..

Why do you think so? Can you please recount your experiences using the INSAS in comparison to foreign rifles of the same stock? I'd be happy to get your perspective as a primary user.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

Anyways Decision is taken now, Regulars wont be using INSAS but always SF..

It will remain in Paramilitary..

 

[cloud_9]

Re: New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

Reposting.......

The INSAS 5.56mm Rifle- A Technical Treatise

Over all the INSAS rifle is a major disappointment and while this study is purely academic and has no bearing on the end user, I think it's all I've been calling it all these years- An over weight, complicated, over priced, mediocre rifle.

In the end it shoots- fairly accurately and with reasonable reliability but its plagued by shitty quality and needless refinements of dubious value.

Bottom line - we could have done so much better.

 

[Shaitan]

Re: New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

INSAS is officially India's HAL Marut of small arms.

 

[abingdonboy]

Re: New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

Anyways Decision is taken now, Regulars wont be using INSAS but always SF..

It will remain in Paramilitary..

@Kunal Biswas Are you saying SF use the INSAS or will in the future? I don't think this is true- all SOFs have transitioned to other rifles.
And I had read another article that said the rifles will start arriving in early 2014 and that OFB would be licensing producing the rifles after the first 60,000 that will be bought off the shelf. It also said that the OFB will start making deliveries of the winning rifle to the CAPFs (Paramilitiries) soon after so INSAS will be phased out by CAPFs too it seems.

Wow-what an incredibly well thought out weapon! Fully ambidextrous- cocking handle and ejection system can be changed sides by the soldier themselves in battle within seconds! And stripping the rifle down or converting it to either calibre seems to be a dodle,


I'm a little disappointed that HK and FN didn't take part though




+ all those upset that a foreign arm is going to be procure- yes this is INCREDIBLY shameful for India especially at a time when India is making satillites, tanks,fighter jets, SSBNs,stealth warships,ACCs, SAMs etc it is beyond a JOKE! But the OFB have to take accountability for this to a high degree, they just don't seem to have the foresight or mindset to want to deliver more than adequate (what the INSAS just about was). Compared to these foreign arms the INSAS really is found lacking and I haven't seen any Indian company devlop a rifle comparable with the best out there. Why should the IA have to accept sub-standard equipment just because indigenous companies are lacking in this field??


Hey, it is what it is-no point crying over spilled milk.


Hopefully by the time the IA is looking for its next gen rifle in 20-30 years an Indian rifle will be in the fray and will win.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

@Kunal Biswas Are you saying SF use the INSAS or will in the future? I don't think this is true- all SOFs have transitioned to other rifles.

SF of any branch use various Rifles not just one, INSAS is one of it and used extensively....

INSAS will be phased out by CAPFs too it seems.

Indian media at its best..

But the OFB have to take accountability for this to a high degree, they just don't seem to have the foresight or mindset to want to deliver more than adequate (what the INSAS just about was). Compared to these foreign arms the INSAS really is found lacking and I haven't seen any Indian company devlop a rifle comparable with the best out there. Why should the IA have to accept sub-standard equipment just because indigenous companies are lacking in this field??

You should know couple of things..

1. New Rifles INSAS 1B1 out of the factory have no issue with quality, And those who compare 1B with 1B1 are ill informed about there difference..

2. When i compare INSAS to foreign arms, Most of them are inferior to INSAS ( Read my post in last page )

3. INSAS was not updated coz of GSQR, There were no demand were given by Army so no major improvement, INSAS Excalibur is a better rifle but was not issued coz it OFB self made rifle and not as per GSQR, So no updated Rifles..



Any more questions..

 

[Rage]

Re: New Rifles for Indian Army

Used TAR-21 on range once, It was good experience but totally different philosophy..

From what I've heard through acquaintances, the INSAS has been a terrible disappointment particularly wrt machining quality and plastic parts and some needless design complications that could have been avoided. Even for an INR25K rifle! Most agree though that rigorous quality controls would work wonders

If I'm not mistaken there was a very in depth difficult-to-rebut analysis done by a senior member of Indians For Guns, cottage cheese that was the standard resource reference for many that held that view:

Indians For Guns& l View topic - The INSAS 5.56mm Rifle: A Technical Treatise

I'd like your feedback on it.

I'd be interested to know about your experience with the TAR-21 as well

---
.
@p2prada, @bengalraider,

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: New Rifles for Indian Army

My view on the analysis is Its outdated analysis on an different version of INSAS, the analysis is done on INSAS 1B even its written 1B1 is basically a 1B, Even so he complains about its design without knowing its GSQR ?

--------------------
--------------------

TAR-21 is stable, Balanced, low recoil Bull-pup assault rifle, What i missed is Iron Sights ..

I'd like your feedback on it.

I'd be interested to know about your experience with the TAR-21 as well

 

[cloud_9]

Re: New Rifles for Indian Army

My view on the analysis is Its outdated analysis on an different version of INSAS, the analysis is done on INSAS 1B even its written 1B1 is basically a 1B

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: New Rifles for Indian Army

This is 1B1 :

------------------
------------------

This is improved 1B :

----------------------
----------------------

Original 1B ( 1999 ) :

[/IMG]

-----------------------
-----------------------


After new Rifle ( black ), older one is known as Improved 1B not 1B1..

The only change between 1B to Improve 1B is OFB rail for optics rest is same so it cannot given same designation as 1B1..

Where as 1B1 ( Black ) has different metallurgy, Improved quality, Black furniture, Reduced weight, Increase reliability, etc etc, Many modifications..

 

[cloud_9]

Re: New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

^^ A layman would just read what's stamped on it.So the guys who made it are so lazy they can't even categories there development in a proper serial order.So it's more like a 1B1 (2010) and 1B1 (2012).Ok Saw your pic's here

Anyway shouldn't they weld metal instead of riveting things up,if they are talking about making a structurally sturdy rifle.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Its a very strong rifle, It can endure explosion inside chamber where most cannot..