INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

DivineHeretic

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
1,153
Likes
1,897
Country flag
No.



Refer to this:



Additionally, one could attach a Krinkov-style muzzle brake, that would have an expansion chamber and perform the same function. Can muzzle-brakes be attached on the INSAS? I think @Kunal Biswas can confirm that.
Muzzle brakes have their own set of disadvantages.....

1.Measurements indicate that on a rifle a muzzle brake adds 5 to 10 dB to the normal noise level perceived by the shooter, increasing total noise levels up to 160 dB(A) +/- 3 dB.[9] Painful discomfort occurs at approximately 120 to 125 dB(A).

Relative to a noise level of 160 dB(A), this means that even using ear muffs and ear plugs simultaneously cannot protect a shooter against permanent ear damage when using a muzzle brake, through leaving a shooter exposed to noise levels of approximately 131 dB(A) that is 11 dB above the point where permanent ear damage occurs.

2.A serious tactical disadvantage of muzzle brakes on both small arms and artillery is that, depending on their designs, they may cause escaping gases to throw up dust and debris clouds that impair visibility and reveal one's position, not to mention posing a hazard to individuals without eye protection.

Under no circumstances do you want yourself to be blinded by dust after firing the first round. That's dangerous.

3. The redirection of larger amounts escaping high pressure gas can cause discomfort caused by blast-induced sinus cavity concussion. Such discomfort can especially become a problem for anti-materiel rifle shooters due to the bigger than normal cartridges with accompanying large case capacities and propellant volumes these rifles use and can be a reason for promoting accelerated shooter fatigue and flinching

4. Muzzle brakes break scopes. This is a fact. A riflescope is built to withstand violent rearward acceleration and gradual deceleration. But when gas hits a muzzle brake, the deceleration is violent; it's like slamming the scope into a wall. Some scopes can't hack it.

Everything has its price, I guess
 
Last edited by a moderator:

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,600
Muzzle brakes have their own set of disadvantages.....

1.Measurements indicate that on a rifle a muzzle brake adds 5 to 10 dB to the normal noise level perceived by the shooter, increasing total noise levels up to 160 dB(A) +/- 3 dB.[9] Painful discomfort occurs at approximately 120 to 125 dB(A).

Relative to a noise level of 160 dB(A), this means that even using ear muffs and ear plugs simultaneously cannot protect a shooter against permanent ear damage when using a muzzle brake, through leaving a shooter exposed to noise levels of approximately 131 dB(A) that is 11 dB above the point where permanent ear damage occurs.

2.A serious tactical disadvantage of muzzle brakes on both small arms and artillery is that, depending on their designs, they may cause escaping gases to throw up dust and debris clouds that impair visibility and reveal one's position, not to mention posing a hazard to individuals without eye protection.

Under no circumstances do you want yourself to be blinded by dust after firing the first round. That's dangerous.

3. The redirection of larger amounts escaping high pressure gas can cause discomfort caused by blast-induced sinus cavity concussion. Such discomfort can especially become a problem for anti-materiel rifle shooters due to the bigger than normal cartridges with accompanying large case capacities and propellant volumes these rifles use and can be a reason for promoting accelerated shooter fatigue and flinching

4. Muzzle brakes break scopes. This is a fact. A riflescope is built to withstand violent rearward acceleration and gradual deceleration. But when gas hits a muzzle brake, the deceleration is violent; it's like slamming the scope into a wall. Some scopes can't hack it.

Everything has its price, I guess
If this is your original content, it is an excellent post by you. If you got it from somewhere, please post a link.
 

DivineHeretic

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
1,153
Likes
1,897
Country flag
If this is your original content, it is an excellent post by you. If you got it from somewhere, please post a link.
I have known these problems for quite some time now. But I don't have the presentation skills to write in a professional manner. So I took the help of the internet. :)

Source is wiki.
Muzzle brake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the last point was from a book I read, but I found it on the net too, just not word for word. The damage usually occurs as a crack on the rail mount of the scope. This problem is acute in shorter barrel weapons, and is especially problematic with cage less red dot sights.
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
INSAS internal design are directly influenced by AK, It is easy to maintain as its Big parts that facilitate easy maintenance, unlike most western rifles based on AR-15 design as It has tiny parts that are easily lost in the field, things like the firing pin retaining pin. It gets dirty more quickly ..

An INSAS takes 20 mins at most in hand of skilled trooper to clean up from A-Z in field conditions, ( Oiling and Cleaning of the parts ), M-16 o other hand takes the day off ..

===============================
===============================



INSAS comes with its own muzzle braker ..

===============================
===============================

Its always interesting to read @DivineHeretic posts, Well placed and written ..


How is INSAS compared to other rifles in terms of maintenance?
Additionally, one could attach a Krinkov-style muzzle brake, that would have an expansion chamber and perform the same function. Can muzzle-brakes be attached on the INSAS? I think @Kunal Biswas can confirm that.
I have known these problems for quite some time now. But I don't have the presentation skills to write in a professional manner. So I took the help of the internet. :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

ersakthivel

Brilliance
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,763
Country flag
..:: India Strategic ::. Missiles: DRDO strives to become a self-sufficient armament designer for Indian armed forces

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For meeting the present day tactical requirement of the Indian Army with light weight, compact and better fire power small arms, a family of Small Arms in 5.56 mm calibre (INSAS) and its family of ammunition have been developed by DRDO and produced by OFB.

The mass produced INSAS rifle, meant to be the main rifle for the Indian Army has been known to malfunction in extreme conditions. In November 2011, the Ministry of Defence issued a tender for 66,000 assault rifles to replace the INSAS.

MoD wanted the new rifles to be able to switch calibres between the small, high-velocity 5.56 mm rounds the INSAS fires and the devastatingly powerful 7.62 mm rounds of the older FAL rifles.

But DRDO insists that improvements on INSAS are on. It is making the under barrel grenade launcher for Indian Army. 10,000 have been ordered of which 2000 have been already delivered.

"We are designing multi calibre 5.56, 6.8 and 7.62 for Infantry but there is no demand from the army. There is a small arms QR from Army for protective carbines.

User trials will begin from December 2013. INSAS team is working on these products. Also corner firing weapon is under development for para military forces by DRDO.

Demonstrations in December 2013 and trials next year are on the agenda. Explosive Detection Kit for paramilitary and police forces being designed by DRDO is being made by Vantage Security Solutions. Technology has been taken by US and has been launched in the US market.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

Shaitan

Zandu Balm all day
Mod
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
4,654
Likes
8,370
Country flag
For decades soldiers have narrated a joke about civilians who pretend to be experts on arms: they can't tell bore from calibre and yet can be big bores despite having low calibre. After telling the joke, soldiers explain that the bore and the calibre, when they concern guns and rockets, mean just the same thing.

But of late, armies the world over are switching to lower calibres, and for good reason. Gone is the craze for the massive guns of the Navarone variety. The in thing is sleeker, lighter, more accurate conventional weapons. The concern for lightness, convenience and accuracy is greatest among the foot-slogging infantry soldier today as warfare now is shorter, bloodier and more intense.

The Indian soldier has been particularly hard-pressed. He has fought most recent battles at close quarters (Siachen, Golden Temple, Jaffna), in extreme conditions where, weighed down by his 5.1 kg Ishapore 7.62 mm rifle, he has found it hard to combat guerrillas. More so, as his rifle fires only one shot at a time and gives a jolt of 15 joules, akin to being rudely sandbagged in the middle of a battle.

Some of that is going to change. Within the next few months, the first Indian units equipped with a shining new array of personal weapons called INSAS (Indian small arms system) will be on parade at select regimental centres. The new rifle will be lighter by a kg, shorter by 18 cm, will fire a burst of three 5.56 mm calibre shots at a time and carry ammunition that, at 12 gm a bullet, weighs exactly half the current 7.62. He could thus carry twice as much ammunition as he does now.

It will also have a multipurpose fold able bayonet which could be used as a wire-cutter, saw, screw-driver and bottle-opener, tools generally carried in the soldiers' backpacks. The magazine is transparent plastic rather than the usual steel and the entire body of the weapon has been built with fibre glass reinforced plastic to conserve weight. "There is also the ethical question about the desirability of cutting trees to make guns," quips S. Venkatesan, director of the Pune based Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE).
The new carbine and the light machine-gun (LMG) also have the same weight and size advantages. For paratroopers, commandos and other special forces, a version of the rifle and the LMG with foldable butts has been developed. "The idea," says Venkatesan, "is to make the foot-soldier's life easier and to make him more efficient without sacrificing on lethality."


After conducting trials in demanding conditions - including Siachen and Sri Lanka - the army vouches for this. "All is final now. The total re-equipment should be over within a few years," says a senior general in the Army Headquarters. This will involve one of the largest small arms order ever placed anywhere in the world after the Second World War, involving nearly two million rifles and nearly a million LMGs and carbines. "It is only in three decades that an army changes its rifle. And when it does, it had better be good," says V.S. Arunachalam, scientific adviser to the defence minister.
While the recent experiences in short, intense close-quarter battles provided the urgency for the 5.56 mm system, the Army Headquarters had projected the need for change from the 25-year-old Ishapore system as far back as in 1979. This was when other world armies were changing to 5.56 mm, beginning with the Americans and nato. Later, Pakistan too adopted a design from the West German small arms giant Heckler and Koch. "Only the communist powers stuck to heavier calibres," explains a general. "But chastened by the Afghanistan experience even the Russians have switched to a new 5.65 mm rifle called AKR."

After tests it was also concluded by the Indian Army that the additional range provided by the 7.62 weapons is unnecessary. "The 7.62 rifle is overdesigned. No soldier can effectively shoot at a range of 800 metres," says an army officer. Similarly, there was the crucial question of giving the rifle burst fire capability.

Many Indian generals believe that in the heat of the battle, jawans tend to poop off ammunition too fast and denying them burst fire is one way of restricting waste. However, close-quarter battle needs burst-firing capability. "Everything was studied, including figures from Vietnam and Korea where US soldiers used more than a lakh bullets to kill one enemy," says Venkatesan. Ultimately, a compromise was found in giving the rifle a three-round burst.

After evaluating various models in the world markets, Indian designers chose to play with the Ishapore design, making production easier. "There is 80 per cent commonality between this weapon and the old one." says P.K. Rao, assistant director of the small arms project at ARDE.

That, however, will cause a few problems. India's first modern rifle factory was set up in the aftermath of the 1962 war with China when, thanks to the new-found American munificence, an old, decrepit rifle plant from St Louis had been shipped to India. After equipping two generations of Indian jawans. the plant is now truly outdated. Thus the Ministry of Defence has no choice but to go shopping for an entirely new plant.

Offers are already coming in from Europe. But the army cannot wait that long and has been pressing for at least some supplies for specialised units. These are likely to be produced at existing facilities before a whole new small arms industry is built - adding a new dimension to India's armament manufacturing and exporting ability.


Read more at: Indian Army prepares to switch to new rifles : DEFENCE - India Today


Article from WAAAY back in the days.
 

ALBY

Section Moderator
Mod
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
3,669
Likes
7,169
Country flag
For decades soldiers have narrated a joke about civilians who pretend to be experts on arms: they can't tell bore from calibre and yet can be big bores despite having low calibre. After telling the joke, soldiers explain that the bore and the calibre, when they concern guns and rockets, mean just the same thing.

But of late, armies the world over are switching to lower calibres, and for good reason. Gone is the craze for the massive guns of the Navarone variety. The in thing is sleeker, lighter, more accurate conventional weapons. The concern for lightness, convenience and accuracy is greatest among the foot-slogging infantry soldier today as warfare now is shorter, bloodier and more intense.

The Indian soldier has been particularly hard-pressed. He has fought most recent battles at close quarters (Siachen, Golden Temple, Jaffna), in extreme conditions where, weighed down by his 5.1 kg Ishapore 7.62 mm rifle, he has found it hard to combat guerrillas. More so, as his rifle fires only one shot at a time and gives a jolt of 15 joules, akin to being rudely sandbagged in the middle of a battle.

Some of that is going to change. Within the next few months, the first Indian units equipped with a shining new array of personal weapons called INSAS (Indian small arms system) will be on parade at select regimental centres. The new rifle will be lighter by a kg, shorter by 18 cm, will fire a burst of three 5.56 mm calibre shots at a time and carry ammunition that, at 12 gm a bullet, weighs exactly half the current 7.62. He could thus carry twice as much ammunition as he does now.

It will also have a multipurpose fold able bayonet which could be used as a wire-cutter, saw, screw-driver and bottle-opener, tools generally carried in the soldiers' backpacks. The magazine is transparent plastic rather than the usual steel and the entire body of the weapon has been built with fibre glass reinforced plastic to conserve weight. "There is also the ethical question about the desirability of cutting trees to make guns," quips S. Venkatesan, director of the Pune based Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE).
The new carbine and the light machine-gun (LMG) also have the same weight and size advantages. For paratroopers, commandos and other special forces, a version of the rifle and the LMG with foldable butts has been developed. "The idea," says Venkatesan, "is to make the foot-soldier's life easier and to make him more efficient without sacrificing on lethality."


After conducting trials in demanding conditions - including Siachen and Sri Lanka - the army vouches for this. "All is final now. The total re-equipment should be over within a few years," says a senior general in the Army Headquarters. This will involve one of the largest small arms order ever placed anywhere in the world after the Second World War, involving nearly two million rifles and nearly a million LMGs and carbines. "It is only in three decades that an army changes its rifle. And when it does, it had better be good," says V.S. Arunachalam, scientific adviser to the defence minister.
While the recent experiences in short, intense close-quarter battles provided the urgency for the 5.56 mm system, the Army Headquarters had projected the need for change from the 25-year-old Ishapore system as far back as in 1979. This was when other world armies were changing to 5.56 mm, beginning with the Americans and nato. Later, Pakistan too adopted a design from the West German small arms giant Heckler and Koch. "Only the communist powers stuck to heavier calibres," explains a general. "But chastened by the Afghanistan experience even the Russians have switched to a new 5.65 mm rifle called AKR."

After tests it was also concluded by the Indian Army that the additional range provided by the 7.62 weapons is unnecessary. "The 7.62 rifle is overdesigned. No soldier can effectively shoot at a range of 800 metres," says an army officer. Similarly, there was the crucial question of giving the rifle burst fire capability.

Many Indian generals believe that in the heat of the battle, jawans tend to poop off ammunition too fast and denying them burst fire is one way of restricting waste. However, close-quarter battle needs burst-firing capability. "Everything was studied, including figures from Vietnam and Korea where US soldiers used more than a lakh bullets to kill one enemy," says Venkatesan. Ultimately, a compromise was found in giving the rifle a three-round burst.

After evaluating various models in the world markets, Indian designers chose to play with the Ishapore design, making production easier. "There is 80 per cent commonality between this weapon and the old one." says P.K. Rao, assistant director of the small arms project at ARDE.

That, however, will cause a few problems. India's first modern rifle factory was set up in the aftermath of the 1962 war with China when, thanks to the new-found American munificence, an old, decrepit rifle plant from St Louis had been shipped to India. After equipping two generations of Indian jawans. the plant is now truly outdated. Thus the Ministry of Defence has no choice but to go shopping for an entirely new plant.

Offers are already coming in from Europe. But the army cannot wait that long and has been pressing for at least some supplies for specialised units. These are likely to be produced at existing facilities before a whole new small arms industry is built - adding a new dimension to India's armament manufacturing and exporting ability.


Read more at: Indian Army prepares to switch to new rifles : DEFENCE - India Today


Article from WAAAY back in the days.
buddy you forgot to posst the pic which is from 1988:)




good worrk man (y)
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
12th International trade fair at Kolkata 2013 ..

From 13-25 December at Science city ground ..

Business timing : 11am to 2pm

Visitors' timing : 2pm - 9 pm ( Mon to Fri )

======================
======================

I used to visit this fair long back and remembered that there used to be OFB stall there, All new kinds of prototypes and other INSAS variant will be there, If visited take snaps and do post here .. :)
@arnabmit and others who are in Kolkata ..
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Shaitan

Zandu Balm all day
Mod
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
4,654
Likes
8,370
Country flag
12th International trade fair at Kolkata 2013 ..

From 13-25 December at Science city ground ..

Business timing : 11am to 2pm

Visitors' timing : 2pm - 9 pm ( Mon to Fri )

======================
======================

I used to visit this fair long back and remembered that there used to be OFB stall there, All new kinds of prototypes and other INSAS variant will be there, If visited take snaps and do post here .. :)
@<a href="http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/member.php?u=12445" target="_blank">arnabmit</a> and others who are in Kolkata ..
I think this was from that fare, years back.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

ersakthivel

Brilliance
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,763
Country flag
Oman army all set to use India's INSAS rifles - Hindustan Times
Bharat Rakshak "¢ View topic - Indian Military/Defence Exports

ssault rifle INSAS (Indian Small Arms System), built by the state-run Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), will soon be used by the Royal Oman Army.

The indigenously built rifle was sent to Muscat in March and is currently undergoing trial for the Oman army.

"Oman has informed us that the rifles have successfully passed the trial run. INSAS will, in all likelihood, be the standard assault rifle of the Royal Oman Army," said an OFB deputy director-rank official, who spoke on condition of anonymity as he is not authorised to speak to the media.

The rifles were subjected to endurance tests for extreme desert temperatures and sandstorms and performed well in both conditions, sources in OFB and Ministry of Defence told Hindustan Times.

Developed in OFB'S Ishapore factory, 45 km north of Kolkata, in 1998, it has three variants — an assault rifle, a light machine gun and a carbine.

India will be supplying the 5.56 mm assault rifle to Oman.
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
@ersakthivel, HT Correspondent Kolkata, April 22, 2010

Unfortunately there are no pics, Though INSAS have been seen in Oman police force ..
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Iceman2012

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
20
Likes
6
Any idea why the police forces in the country not using the INSAS. It will give economies of scale to the factory and of course give the cops firepower when taking on antisocial elements/terrorists. In most towns in India, they still use old rifles which other than the fact that it misfires, can fire only a shot at a time (no match for automatic rifles)
 

Twinblade

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
1,578
Likes
3,231
Country flag
Any idea why the police forces in the country not using the INSAS. It will give economies of scale to the factory and of course give the cops firepower when taking on antisocial elements/terrorists. In most towns in India, they still use old rifles which other than the fact that it misfires, can fire only a shot at a time (no match for automatic rifles)
It varies state to state. In many states, Insas has replaced older bolt action rifles from the service, especially in cities. When the army starts accepting new rifles, these older military surplus Insas rifles would be purchased by police departments. It has been done in the past as well, first with Ishapore made SMLE MkIII, then Ishapore 2A/2A1 and Ishapore 1A1.
 

ghost

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
1,234
Likes
2,455
@ersakthivel, HT Correspondent Kolkata, April 22, 2010

Unfortunately there are no pics, Though INSAS have been seen in Oman police force ..


this pic is of royal oman army graduation day on September 2013 can these be insas .i cant clearly make it out though...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

ghost

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
1,234
Likes
2,455
@ersakthivel, HT Correspondent Kolkata, April 22, 2010

Unfortunately there are no pics, Though INSAS have been seen in Oman police force ..




this pic is of royal oman army graduation day on September 2013 can these be insas .i cant clearly make it out though...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

sayareakd

Mod
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
17,734
Likes
18,953
Country flag
@ghost this is INSAS thread, so do post non topic stuff. That is crossbow arrows from the looks of it may be used for some special purpose.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top