INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

i wonder how hard can it be to make a assault rifle when we are sending rockets to Mars

 

[Lions Of Punjab]

lions of punjab ,Ahmadabad, India ????

yes what ?

 

[Blackwater]

yes what ?

i mean pls introduce ur self in members section

 

[ALBY]

I would add another question, Why didn't media even mention DRDO in the competition.. ?

This whole process of buying new rifles is a scam ( evidence posted on first page ) ..

An official from DRDO whom i had met in a defence expo had said that drdo is also developing multi cals based on INSAS which has integrated quad rails and better ergonomics.Any way he denied to comment about the present statee of development.

 

[Abhijeet Dey]

i wonder how hard can it be to make a assault rifle when we are sending rockets to Mars

Maybe ISRO Scientists are not like corrupt officials of DRDO.

 

[sayareakd]

i wonder how hard can it be to make a assault rifle when we are sending rockets to Mars

INSAS cost 25000 and multi barrel rifle will cost almost 4 times that cost. Plus for Indian soldier you need to have Indian made solution with good quality. BTW after this multi barrel rifle trial you will know how difficult to find or make rifle for Indian conditions.

 

[sayareakd]

Maybe ISRO Scientists are not like corrupt officials of DRDO.

come on, they make ICBM and BMD at shoe string budget and you are calling them corrupt.

Those guys can make tons of money if working for military industrial complex in US, but they stayed and worked here on sarkari salaries.

 

[Abhijeet Dey]

come on, they make ICBM and BMD at shoe string budget and you are calling them corrupt.

Those guys can make tons of money if working for military industrial complex in US, but they stayed and worked here on sarkari salaries.

Sorry but still there are many big projects which they should have completed on time such as LCA Tejas.

 

[Blackwater]

What If Multi-Cal Rifle Tender Falls?


Another tender what else

 

[bose]

Maybe ISRO Scientists are not like corrupt officials of DRDO.

I would not say that the DRDO scientists are corrupt... that will be un fair... but definitly DRDO lacks proper project management skills... the golden rules for good project management are 1) Never make assumptions 2) Under promise and over deliver...

 

[sayareakd]

Sorry but still there are many big projects which they should have completed on time such as LCA Tejas.

that is not because of corruption that is because of tech denial.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I think you should ask @ersakthivel over Tejas threads ..

====================

Offtopic >

Also just to point out the project actually begun in late 90s, Since then its a decade and we have operational Tejas in IAF since Dec 2011 ..

====================

Continue discussion over Tejas thread ......

Sorry but still there are many big projects which they should have completed on time such as LCA Tejas.

 

[ztunelover]

If it fails maybe they won't buy unproven or outdated rifles.

 

[ersakthivel]

Maybe ISRO Scientists are not like corrupt officials of DRDO.

Sorry but still there are many big projects which they should have completed on time such as LCA Tejas.

If it is so why did ISRO scientists fail to get GSLV right after three launches.You should know that our PSLV is a a phantom weight contneder in international launch business,

DRDO has given the country a state of the art road and rail mobile rugged Agni-V which has the capability to hurl 4 or 5 MIRV nukes anywhere on china with single digit meter accuracy effectively stalemating china's string of pearls strategy.

And it's sub launched ballistic missile tech is also proven and placed on Arihant, not an insignificant achievement .

Eventhough peoples were talking about LCA from time immemorial , actual funding for two tech demo was sanctioned only in 1993, The initial 560 cr given to ADA in 1983 was to set up initial infraand test facilities for the program and to do project definition .This was completed by 1989.

But funding was given only in 1993 for two TDs all due to economic crisis of 1990s.

And TDs flew in 2001 with in 7 years of validating all the techs CLAWS for fly by wire, composite tech, inertial navigation system , mission computer,aerodynamics of compound delta .Not an insignificant achievement by any yard stick . That too with all the tech partners washing their hands off after the Nuclear test sanctions.

In 2004 IAF revised it's requirements leading to FSED phase -II which led the fighter to be modeled towards more rounded multi role capability with litening pods and strengthened wing sections to carry more launch stress inducing higher weight missiles.


Also the only part that lagged behind was the kaveri jet engine and even that has made substantial progress in achieving close to 81 Kn (84 Kn is the target ) wet thrust by 2009.

The reason K-9 development was discontinued was due to the newer IAF demands which led to the FSED phase-II of tejas program the weight of the fighter went up by a ton and the engine became underpowered for that.

It's marine version is working successfully and will get naval orders and the much more powerful K-10 development with foreign assistance is on.It is a significant achievement considering that TWR of K-9 is around 6.8, which is what close to western engines of the 1990s tech. Note the GE-404 IN 20 which powers tejas mk-1 too has around 8 as TWR .

In comparison the ISRO is yet to reach the 1990s pay load levels of western launch vehicles in the all critical geo synchronous orbit.I don't mean to belittle their other achievements including 100 successful space launches and INSAT , RITSAT, mangalyan, Chandryan sats.

to put it into perspective both ISRO and DRDO are 20 years behind west in tech development , which is natural when you consider the late start , meager funding(that's why C.N.R.Rao criticized the politicians as fools immediately after receiving bharath ratna ) brain drain and primitive industrial back ground.

SO IOC at 2012 gives you a time line of 20 years which is just five years more than the time it took for grippen which had majority foreign components and even fly by wire from US.

RAFALE and TYPHOON too took the same period as Tejas. it is all explained in tejas IV thread.While DRDO achieved this IOC after ever changing user requirements ISRO with no outside interference is yet to launch GSLV successfully. ofcourse ISRO has done well with chandryiyan and INSATs and PSLVS along with remote sensing satelites.

So both have done as much as possible struggling against brain drain to foreign countries in the back drop of primitive industrial base of the country.

 

[sayareakd]

If it fails maybe they won't buy unproven or outdated rifles.

INSAS has proven itself in Kargil war and it is made as per Indian army doctrine. Cant say the same for other rifles.

 

[Singh]

INSAS has proven itself in Kargil war and it is made as per Indian army doctrine. Cant say the same for other rifles.

I don't think Army was happy with Insas during Kargil.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[rvjpheonix]

If it is so why did ISRO scientists fail to get GSLV right after three launches.You should know that our PSLV is a a phantom weight contneder in international launch business,

DRDO has given the country a state of the art road and rail mobile rugged Agni-V which has the capability to hurl 4 or 5 MIRV nukes anywhere on china with single digit meter accuracy effectively stalemating china's string of pearls strategy.

And it's sub launched ballistic missile tech is also proven and placed on Arihant, not an insignificant achievement .

Eventhough peoples were talking about LCA from time immemorial , actual funding for two tech demo was sanctioned only in 1993, The initial 560 cr given to ADA in 1983 was to set up initial infraand test facilities for the program and to do project definition .This was completed by 1989.

But funding was given only in 1993 for two TDs all due to economic crisis of 1990s.

And TDs flew in 2001 with in 7 years of validating all the techs CLAWS for fly by wire, composite tech, inertial navigation system , mission computer,aerodynamics of compound delta .Not an insignificant achievement by any yard stick . That too with all the tech partners washing their hands off after the Nuclear test sanctions.

In 2004 IAF revised it's requirements leading to FSED phase -II which led the fighter to be modeled towards more rounded multi role capability with litening pods and strengthened wing sections to carry more launch stress inducing higher weight missiles.


Also the only part that lagged behind was the kaveri jet engine and even that has made substantial progress in achieving close to 81 Kn (84 Kn is the target ) wet thrust by 2009.

The reason K-9 development was discontinued was due to the newer IAF demands which led to the FSED phase-II of tejas program the weight of the fighter went up by a ton and the engine became underpowered for that.

It's marine version is working successfully and will get naval orders and the much more powerful K-10 development with foreign assistance is on.It is a significant achievement considering that TWR of K-9 is around 6.8, which is what close to western engines of the 1990s tech. Note the GE-404 IN 20 which powers tejas mk-1 too has around 8 as TWR .

In comparison the ISRO is yet to reach the 1990s pay load levels of western launch vehicles in the all critical geo synchronous orbit.I don't mean to belittle their other achievements including 100 successful space launches and INSAT , RITSAT, mangalyan, Chandryan sats.

to put it into perspective both ISRO and DRDO are 20 years behind west in tech development , which is natural when you consider the late start , meager funding(that's why C.N.R.Rao criticized the politicians as fools immediately after receiving bharath ratna ) brain drain and primitive industrial back ground.

SO IOC at 2012 gives you a time line of 20 years which is just five years more than the time it took for grippen which had majority foreign components and even fly by wire from US.

RAFALE and TYPHOON too took the same period as Tejas. it is all explained in tejas IV thread.While DRDO achieved this IOC after ever changing user requirements ISRO with no outside interference is yet to launch GSLV successfully. ofcourse ISRO has done well with chandryiyan and INSATs and PSLVS along with remote sensing satelites.

So both have done as much as possible struggling against brain drain to foreign countries in the back drop of primitive industrial base of the country.

About the kaveri part. It only produced 71 KN and not 81 KN when tested in gromov in rusiia. I know it is flat rated but I guess we can expect it to drop a bit more in our conditions. When did it get 81 KNs?

 

[sayareakd]

I don't think Army was happy with Insas during Kargil.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

Ask @Ray sir, he has said so many times, he was satisfied with the rifle and those who complaint about it, have never used it.

 

[mehrotraprince]

About the kaveri part. It only produced 71 KN and not 81 KN when tested in gromov in rusiia. I know it is flat rated but I guess we can expect it to drop a bit more in our conditions. When did it get 81 KNs?

Kaveri-Special Characteristics
Air-mass flow : 78 kg/s
By-pass ratio : 0.16
Overall pressure ratio : 21.5
Turbine entry temperature : 1487-1700 K
Maximum dry thrust : 52 kN (5302 kg)
Maximum dry SFC : 0.78 kg/hr/kg
After burner maximum power thrust : 81 kN (8260 kg)
After burner maximum power SFC : 2.03 kg/hr/kg
Thrust-to-weight ratio : 7.8

http://drdo.res.in:8080/alpha/drdo/English/kaveri.html

I hope this will help.

 

[Ray]

Ask @Ray sir, he has said so many times, he was satisfied with the rifle and those who complaint about it, have never used it.

To be frank, we had received no complaints about the INSAS.

There is always a tendency amongst people to create controversies for the sake of it just to focus attention on themselves or to pursue some agenda.

Now, if there was any problem with the INSAS, why was it not mentioned in the After Action Reports?

I have not seen any such complaints at the DIv HQ either.

Are there better rifles in the world than the INSAS?

I am sure they are.

But what of it?

Would INSAS have problems?

I am sure that there is the possibility.

But then which weapon or weapon platform is ideal and perfect?

Everything in life is a compromise.

Personally I would like a rifle that can detect the enemy, cock itself, aim itself, fire on its own, hit result being 100% and all I have to do is loll around and drink coffee sitting not in a trench, but in a bunker that is as good as the Queen's bedroom at the Buckingham Palace.

Any rifle like that for sale? Or such a bunker for the asking?