INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[Kartooz]

There was this belief that 5.56 was designed to injure a soldier not outright kill him so that 3 more soldiers are taken out of the fight trying to help the injured soldier. After reading black hawk down, I could see why. But I don't know if that belief was just some random BS or how true it really is.

After watching black hawk down you should have realised that every injured soldier in that movie was shot by a 7.62 round. An injury is an injury. A 5.56 shot in the neck is gonna be lethal compared to a 7.62 shot in the leg.
I really don't understand why all the armchair experts are jumping out of their chairs to criticize the army. It is THEY who have to use these ammunitions. As far as I am concerned, 3 terrorists are not gonna go help one wounded terrorist and abandon the fight. Let each round have a higher kill shot chance to just finish off these scum of the earth.

 

[Sir pe tapla]

After watching black hawk down you should have realised that every injured soldier in that movie was shot by a 7.62 round. An injury is an injury. A 5.56 shot in the neck is gonna be lethal compared to a 7.62 shot in the leg.
I really don't understand why all the armchair experts are jumping out of their chairs to criticize the army. It is THEY who have to use these ammunitions. As far as I am concerned, 3 terrorists are not gonna go help one wounded terrorist and abandon the fight. Let each round have a higher kill shot chance to just finish off these scum of the earth.

Oh right, I forgot the somalis were using Aks lol.

 

[Tactical Doge]

After watching black hawk down you should have realised that every injured soldier in that movie was shot by a 7.62 round. An injury is an injury. A 5.56 shot in the neck is gonna be lethal compared to a 7.62 shot in the leg.
I really don't understand why all the armchair experts are jumping out of their chairs to criticize the army. It is THEY who have to use these ammunitions. As far as I am concerned, 3 terrorists are not gonna go help one wounded terrorist and abandon the fight. Let each round have a higher kill shot chance to just finish off these scum of the earth.

It is a rather sensitive thing
You say one thing and armchairs get triggered, (myself included)
I have my opinion you have yours
A shot in the leg can be more lethal than a shot in the neck in the right circumstances (albeit very extremely rare)
In WW2 there was an instance wherein a dude shot his venal artery off with a luger and died of bleeding (cos you can't stitch/stop bleeding that shiiet unless you take him to a specialised hospital)

AFAIK, A 7.62 NATO round to a NIJ level 2 plate will do more than a 5.56 NATO on the same, but that's just my opinion
At 11:30 he says, a guy can still be in the fight adter getting shot 7-8 times

During Randori behak one of our guys took a burst in his stomach and still managed to take out the Gayzhi


I would say, the army knows what it's doing, if it is ditching the 5.56INSAS as mainstay infantry and going for a 7.62 Soviet platform there is good reason,( I'm not the fan of AK203, the AK15 would be a better option AFAIK)
It's not like people writing GSQRs, RFIs and RFPs are some screen junkies like us

 

[pipebomb]

A few points i would like to add to this discussion

i} "Army knows best" or "they are the ones who will use it" line of argument will leads us down a DANGEROUS path, where army can't be scrutinized or hold to account by civilians (i.e. democratic gov)

ii} IA is not a CI force. CI is ONLY a small part of its operational roles(for now). Its preferable that CAPFs handle CI.

iii} It is established beyond doubt that 7.62x39 effective range falls short of modern battlefield requirements (i.e. min 450m, which 5.56 cater to more than effectively)

iii}a) It could be possible that 5.56 shattering effect might be inferior to 5.45 tumbling effect in kill probability (just guessing don't quote me)

iv} The only advantage i see of 7.62x51 is beyond 450m. Upto 450m it provides marginal advantage over 5.56. We pay for this extra range in controllability of auto fire.

Now to sum up, it raises a VERY important question. Does IA's transition to 7.62x51 justifies the steep price generally associated with shifting to a new caliber when IA already has urgent requirements to cater to. All major armies like US army, British army, nato, ccp's army or Russian army sticking to their existing calibers for this very pecuniary reason.

Did IA's poor judgement screw(understatement) indian middle class(i.e. exchequers) who are already stressed. Could IA have managed by inducting a weapon like L129A1,hk417 or even a sig716 in limited quantity for sharpshooter role.

IA likes to copy their colonial employer/masters in most 'chal challans'. They should have taken a hint from them on how to be prudent with exchequer's hard earned money also. Atleast in this case.

 

[Lonewarrior]

I would say, the army knows what it's doing, if it is ditching the 5.56INSAS as mainstay infantry and going for a 7.62 Soviet platform there is good reason

And that good reason is.....!?

 

[Tactical Doge]

And that good reason is.....!?

Мать Россия счастлива

Le bhaai le, mujhe pata hai ki ye sab ghoom phirke Politics pe hi ayega

 

[Lonewarrior]

Мать Россия счастлива
View attachment 109001

Le bhaai le, mujhe pata hai ki ye sab ghoom phirke Politics pe hi ayega

Laughs in Commodore Sukhjinder Singh

 

[ManhattanProject]

Sig 716 kholna jodna video aa gaya bhai loog.

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

Laughs in Commodore Sukhjinder Singh

Who was he ?

 

[pipebomb]

Laughs in Commodore Sukhjinder Singh

is this by any chance a Natasha reference

 

[Johny_Baba]

Hello @Lonewarrior bhai, long time no see...

you heard the chatter on SM ? that the Stumpp Schuelle Somappa gais now making ".338 Norma Magnum" light machine gun as confirmed by the viv krishnan himself lol, this coming after more than a year after that other guy some Raj saying they have indigeneously designed developed manufactured lmg yada yada...

and of course after embargo-ridden deal with LMT for their AR pattern rifles they seem to be back with incoming multi-calibre AR rifle thing, to be seen in next Defense Expo and so...

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Hello @Lonewarrior bhai, long time no see...

you heard the chatter on SM ? that the Stumpp Schuelle Somappa gais now making ".338 Norma Magnum" light machine gun as confirmed by the viv krishnan himself lol, this coming after more than a year after that other guy some Raj saying they have indigeneously designed developed manufactured lmg yada yada...

and of course after embargo-ridden deal with LMT for their AR pattern rifles they seem to be back with incoming multi-calibre AR rifle thing, to be seen in next Defense Expo and so...

The LMG in .338 Norma Magnum was confirmed by their CEO Vivek Krishnan in an interview to Shiv Aroor last August. No news after that.


At around 33:00

 

[Johny_Baba]

The LMG in .338 Norma Magnum was confirmed by their CEO Vivek Krishnan in an interview to Shiv Aroor last August. No news after that.


At around 33:00

hhmm he said about .338 Lapua Magnum not .338 Norma Magnum in this video, my bad i must've misheard-misread it

 

[Lonewarrior]

Hello @Lonewarrior bhai, long time no see...

you heard the chatter on SM ? that the Stumpp Schuelle Somappa gais now making ".338 Norma Magnum" light machine gun as confirmed by the viv krishnan himself lol, this coming after more than a year after that other guy some Raj saying they have indigeneously designed developed manufactured lmg yada yada...

and of course after embargo-ridden deal with LMT for their AR pattern rifles they seem to be back with incoming multi-calibre AR rifle thing, to be seen in next Defense Expo and so...

Making a machine gun won't be that big of a deal for SSS Defence.

The most complex part of any machine gun is its feed mechanism. And more or less there is only two types of feed mechanism that's widely used; German (right from MG34 to NGSW-AR) and Czech (from vz. 52/57 to Negev). And both are long expired patents.
So given the track record of SSSS Defence, they won't have any problem in designing "world's best, cutting edge, state of the art, 100% indigenous feed mechanism".

Things get bit interesting when their egoistic ass claims to make a .338 LM machine gun. Coz in a .338 LM-NM machine gun the most important and also most complex part is its recoil mitigation system. You can't fire .338 in full auto without that!
But almost all recoil mitigation system are currently protected by active patents. And that too of giant companies like General Dynamics and SIG SAUER.

So unless SSSSS Defence patents something that's better that SIG SAUER, then only they can make a .338 MG.

Otherwise again it'll be a matter of few days and they'll be sued.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

hhmm he said about .338 Lapua Magnum not .338 Norma Magnum in this video, my bad i must've misheard-misread it

You aren’t wrong

 

[Lonewarrior]

You aren’t wrong
View attachment 109090

And who eggsactly is going to buy that .338 MG from SSS Defence?
US-SOCOM!?

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

And who eggsactly is going to buy that .338 MG from SSS Defence?
US-SOCOM!?

As per their company claims, they aspire to be not limited to just the Indian market, but rather be a global player.

 

[Johny_Baba]

You aren’t wrong
View attachment 109090

well in interview with Livefest he himself put forth the point of having common ammunition for gpmg and sniper rifles that .338 lapua magnum could become, and now talking about .338 norma magnum machine gun, 'specially when he offered that Sabre rifle in .338 lapua magnum hhmm what to say...

 

[pipebomb]

well in interview with Livefest he himself put forth the point of having common ammunition for gpmg and sniper rifles

Why is that ? Former has force wide application as opposed to latter's niche use. Or does he mean marksman/sharpshooter rifle. Or is this a gimmick as the gpmg market is already saturated. Is this view pravelent in army too.

 

[Lonewarrior]

As per their company claims, they aspire to be not limited to just the Indian market, but rather be a global player.

अच्छा