INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[Killbot]

if you know anything about firearms, simple is good.

I know more about firearms than you, no offence. That's why I'd pick a reliable AR-15 over an AK any day, because simple might be reliable, but doesn't mean sophisticated is unreliable. AR-15 Modularity over whatever the AK has to offer every step of the way.

 

[Killbot]

No you carry a PDW loaded with safety on, you dont carry it with bolt locked to the rear.
A bolt hold open does not give a large enough technical advantage in battle, i understand its useful for spec ops guys but for rear echelon troops it just adds to the complexity and training. A bold hold also lets dirt and debree enter the system.

Uhhh... The bolt catch and release are for faster magazine changes...

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

"Sutro" se yeh suna hain ki AK-203 deal kmkb hone wala hain

What does kmkb mean?

 

[another_armchair]

What does kmkb mean?

Kremlin ki Maa Ka Barbecue/Biryani/Bharta.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

The AK 203 deal was a political deal from the beginning. It was almost a consolation prize handed to the Russians for walking out of pakfa programme. As if 5.3 billion for s400 deal wasn't enough.

The Ak 203 had no qualitative edge over fab modified Bulgarian AKs, TAR or ghatak. The AK 203 which india was getting is a souped up Ak 103 with P rails. The AK 103 is a reliable weapon no doubt. However, it is not a weapon which we should be inducting for future needs.

Also, the ak platform specifications is widely known around the world. It is something that we shouldn't be paying royalty towards izmash.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

"Sutro" se yeh suna hain ki AK-203 deal kmkb hone wala hain

Is it related to Kremlin giving statements in favour of cheen?

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

"Sutro" se yeh suna hain ki AK-203 deal kmkb hone wala hain

Agyani sutro se puchna ap ki replacement kya hogi.
Army Sab ko caracal carbine issue karegi kya

 

[another_armchair]

"Sutro" se yeh suna hain ki AK-203 deal kmkb hone wala hain

 

[FalconSlayers]

I am in favour of Kalashnikov but AK-19.
If not AK-19 then CAR-816’s 16” Variant.

 

[Johny_Baba]

How does JVPC compare to;

- BT MP9
- Amogh

@Johny_Baba @Gessler

Sorry for late reply,had to visit daktor dentist and so...

Most of contents regarding this query has already been covered by Gessler and others so not much to add from my side,still let me try
>Always keep in mind MSMC // JVPC and Amogh were intended as replacement of 9mm "Carbine" in service (Sterling SMGs) as a more lethal compact SMG-ish weapon that could penetrate body armour upto level 3 at close range, and it fulfills this criteria well enough
>As for the round 5.56x30mm itself,i'd suggest you to read my old post on its counterpart 5.56x30mm MARS at here https://defenceforumindia.com/threads/successful-user-trial-of-msmc.55979/post-1338175
>There is certain chatter on JVPC lacking rails,bolt catch etc,
Again keep 'intended role' and 'commonality' in mind here because JVPC is offshot of INSAS program, so basics would be same among all them.Well there is a manual bolt hold hopen device on it just like INSAS (albeit located on charging handle itself) but meant for locking the bolt carrier back for inspecting barrel etc.

BTW real issue with JVPC is neither 5.56x30mm rounds nor the ergonomics but...well...it's butt itself.
That retractable buttstock kinda wobbles and one can literally pull it outta gun as confessed by first hand user @hammerhead praa himself.

My recommendation back then was and still is to replace it with side folding buttstock that we have on B&T MP9 or something better from aftermarket.

 

[Johny_Baba]

Agyani sutro se puchna ap ki replacement kya hogi.
Army Sab ko caracal carbine issue karegi kya

तथास्तु

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Now that CAR-816 deal is cancelled, so instead of ordering JVPC which will be underpowered for carbine role, or any other carbine for that matter, a very good option will be:

Apparently, this is a bullpup configuration of INSAS. It is a re-engineered version of an existing INSAS rifle into bullpup configuration. Externally, looks similar to SA-80 rifle. This is done by a young major in Army Infantry school and CME, Pune. Looks compact and apparently, it has cleared initial trial with flying colors. Though it may need further refining.

Sine army has already decided to replace INSAS by Sig 716, this way we can save a lot of money, since it will be a weapon conversion, not a new weapon. Apparently, army is guiding the project. Another plus point is the 5.56*45 mm INSAS round, which has high penetration power, which army has millions in stockpile. Further due to the use of Tavors in army and CRPF for a long time, bullpup configuration will not be a major issue.

 

[ManhattanProject]

Uhhh... The bolt catch and release are for faster magazine changes...

no its also there to tell you when the magazine is empty, alot of times an average soldier gets a malfunction and thinks its the bolt hold open.

 

[ManhattanProject]

I know more about firearms than you, no offence. That's why I'd pick a reliable AR-15 over an AK any day, because simple might be reliable, but doesn't mean sophisticated is unreliable. AR-15 Modularity over whatever the AK has to offer every step of the way.

no offence but all this knowledge you have is surface level.

 

[ManhattanProject]

Uhhh... The bolt catch and release are for faster magazine changes...

those 3 sec mag changes are mostly done by cool dudes on youtube, you always do a tactical reload in combat.
You always switch to your sidearm if your gun goes empty or jams.

 

[ManhattanProject]

Now that CAR-816 deal is cancelled, so instead of ordering JVPC which will be underpowered for carbine role, or any other carbine for that matter, a very good option will be:

Apparently, this is a bullpup configuration of INSAS. It is a re-engineered version of an existing INSAS rifle into bullpup configuration. Externally, looks similar to SA-80 rifle. This is done by a young major in Army Infantry school and CME, Pune. Looks compact and apparently, it has cleared initial trial with flying colors. Though it may need further refining.

Sine army has already decided to replace INSAS by Sig 716, this way we can save a lot of money, since it will be a weapon conversion, not a new weapon. Apparently, army is guiding the project. Another plus point is the 5.56*45 mm INSAS round, which has high penetration power, which army has millions in stockpile. Further due to the use of Tavors in army and CRPF for a long time, bullpup configuration will not be a major issue.

this would be a horrible option.

 

[Killbot]

this would be a horrible option.

Not really, if it is a conversion kit. Army is going to get rid of INSAS anyway, so that could be used as a service rifle in the CRPF, BSF, etc. A way better project than JVPC if you ask me. If you relocate the charging handle to where it is on INSAS, this conversion kit can be used on AKs as well. A little work on the stock and dust cover and this is good to go. Given it is reliable of course. And how unreliable can an AK get, when all you're doing is relocating trigger group.. And optics mounting is not a problem anymore, as it is not going to be on the dust cover.

BTW, is the top cover stable enough to mount optics on AK 103M that IA is getting? @Johny_Baba

I know Kalashnikov Concern claimed that it was stable, but...

 

[Killbot]

those 3 sec mag changes are mostly done by cool dudes on youtube, you always do a tactical reload in combat.
You always switch to your sidearm if your gun goes empty or jams.

Yeah, the bolt hold open tells you that your gun is empty. What if you're using an MP5 and it goes empty? You won't know till you pull the trigger and hear a click. I've discussed this on different threads before, so last from me on this.

no offence but all this knowledge you have is surface level.

What would you pick? High end AK with good ergonomics, like ACE or a mid range AR 15 style weapon, like an M4 SOPMOD Block 1 or 2? Just want to know. Other members are also welcome..

 

[patriots]

"Sutro" se yeh suna hain ki AK-203 deal kmkb hone wala hain

Bhai mujhe pehle se hi patahay.....
Ye hona hi thaa....govt is dragging it's feet means ...some indigenous system is in advance stage of trials.......bdw which gun is gonna replace...ofb gun ...ya sss defence gun

 

[Illusive]

Wut about the factory at Amethi for this production. This may be more like carrots and sticks.