INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[shuvo@y2k10]

OFB.

Tab to Ram naam satya hoye gaya samajlo Sigs ka.

 

[ManhattanProject]

Yeah, the bolt hold open tells you that your gun is empty. What if you're using an MP5 and it goes empty? You won't know till you pull the trigger and hear a click. I've discussed this on different threads before, so last from me on this.

What would you pick? High end AK with good ergonomics, like ACE or a mid range AR 15 style weapon, like an M4 SOPMOD Block 1 or 2? Just want to know. Other members are also welcome..

mid range ar15 all day.

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

Any news ki conform hai ki sena ak203 rifle nai Legi.
I was happy to jawans are getting something better than insas( thanks to ofb , DRDO apna kam kiya tha ofb botched up again )
Ak 203 is anyday better than insas

 

[ManhattanProject]

Any news ki conform hai ki sena ak203 rifle nai Legi.
I was happy to jawans are getting something better than insas( thanks to ofb , DRDO apna kam kiya tha ofb botched up again )
Ak 203 is anyday better than insas

it might be better than the insas but that doesnt mean anything.
the reality is there are far more reliable, ergonomic and modular weapons out there.

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

it might be better than the insas but that doesnt mean anything.
the reality is there are far more reliable, ergonomic and modular weapons out there.

Well shrimaan , we are not buying those more reliable systems but ak 203 .
I personally , don't like us buying from russians either .
Our mod and dac and other procurement agencies are not swift , my fear is that rejecting the ak 203 will result in the quagmire once again .
Final disadvantage is to the jawan , who is provided with a bad rifle .

 

[Killbot]

mid range ar15 all day.

So would I. Primarily because of weight, cost and modularity.

 

[Killbot]

it might be better than the insas but that doesnt mean anything.
the reality is there are far more reliable, ergonomic and modular weapons out there.

INSAS can be modified. But army doesn't want to hear it.

 

[another_armchair]

The Union government had last year authorised the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF), the country's largest CAPF with over 3-lakh personnel, to replace almost all of its INSAS weapons with AK assault rifles in the ten Maoist violence-hit states where it is deployed to undertake offensive operations.

Central forces and special police units to get 36,000 modern AK assault rifles

A stockpile of over 36,000 modern AK-series assault rifles have been recently provided to central paramilitary forces and select state police units, a senior official said Tuesday.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

Somebody kindly shed light on the contract value for these Bulgarian AR-M1's that were procured for the CRPF. I searched but couldn't find anything regarding the unit cost/contract value of the above deal for 36,000 rifles.

Wouldn't be surprised if these would turn out cheaper than the AK-203's to be made in Amethi.

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

CISF
OFB Excalibur MK-1 Rifle

 

[Killbot]

INSAS can be modified. But army doesn't want to hear it.

I'm not quite getting the reactions. INSAS is way more ergonomic than even AK 12 series.. Even that Excalibur thing would be better than what we're getting...

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

From the beginning the INSAS was quite accurate, but had reliability problems. Some of them were design flaws, while others were OFB QC issues. Insas started to resolve the initial reliability problems and improve with the 1B1 version onwards. Then came Excalibur mk1, which has seen service with CAPFs. It totally resolved the reliability problem with the MK1C version (by 2015). If the development of Insas is continued, I am sure better ergonomics will follow.

Insas 1B1

Excalibur MK1

Insas MK1C

Ergonomics wise, the MK1C version can be made with a milled receiver (MCIWS and TAR have these), and installed with full length P-rails on top. Coupled with a M4 style buttstock(from MCIWS) and you have our own desi analogue of AK521.

Further improvements like free floating M-LOK handguards, SCAR type buttstock can notch it a level higher.

 

[Lonewarrior]

INSAS can be modified. But army doesn't want to hear it.

Ek hi to pig hai apna, kitna lipstick lagaoge bechare pe!

Modifications are done to "enhance" things, like ergonomics or ambidexterity or may be for future proofing. There is no way you can enhance mechanical tolerances, clearances, metallurgy, design and manufacturing flaws by modifications.

 

[Killbot]

Ek hi to pig hai apna, kitna lipstick lagaoge bechare pe!

Modifications are done to "enhance" things, like ergonomics or ambidexterity or may be for future proofing. There is no way you can enhance mechanical tolerances, clearances, metallurgy, design and manufacturing flaws by modifications.

Like I said, INSAS is no pig. Replace the defective parts like springs, magazines etc and you have a solid gun. Due to the position of the safety selector and charging handle, it can be made ambidextrous. And then there is the furniture. Replace handguard, gas block, muzzle device, Pistol grip, top cover, buttstock, magazine locking system (to accept AR-15 mags) and cut the barrel down to 14" and use 5.56 NATO ammo and you're good to go.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Like I said, INSAS is no pig. Replace the defective parts like springs, magazines etc and you have a solid gun. Due to the position of the safety selector and charging handle, it can be made ambidextrous. And then there is the furniture. Replace handguard, gas block, muzzle device, Pistol grip, top cover, buttstock, magazine locking system (to accept AR-15 mags) and cut the barrel down to 14" and use 5.56 NATO ammo and you're good to go.

In other words reinvent the Galil. The INSAS has become a cautionary tale for weapons design.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Like I said, INSAS is no pig. Replace the defective parts like springs, magazines etc and you have a solid gun. Due to the position of the safety selector and charging handle, it can be made ambidextrous. And then there is the furniture. Replace handguard, gas block, muzzle device, Pistol grip, top cover, buttstock, magazine locking system (to accept AR-15 mags) and cut the barrel down to 14" and use 5.56 NATO ammo and you're good to go.

Let's add some more things in that etc, trust me it will be fun.
Bolt, bolt carrier group and trunnion; there is no uniform heat treatment or annealing in different batches. So you end up with issues like galling.
Almost all the small parts like those of FCGs are usually outsourced from private firms and the usual method of manufacturing is MIM; one of the most infamous method in firearm industry.
The receiver and virtually all metal parts are either manganese phosphatized or blued; again a process made obsolete by new methods like ceramic based paint and nitriding.

After "modifying" this much thing you are left with a paradox; the ship of Theseus.

 

[Killbot]

Let's add some more things in that etc, trust me it will be fun.
Bolt, bolt carrier group and trunnion; there is no uniform heat treatment or annealing in different batches. So you end up with issues like galling.
Almost all the small parts like those of FCGs are usually outsourced from private firms and the usual method of manufacturing is MIM; one of the most infamous method in firearm industry.
The receiver and virtually all metal parts are either manganese phosphatized or blued; again a process made obsolete by new methods like ceramic based paint and nitriding.

After "modifying" this much thing you are left with a paradox; the ship of Theseus.

Yup. Add a cerakote finish just for the fun of it. A heavier profile barrel would also di well in terms of heat dissipation and accuracy. Replace the stamped steel reciever with a polymer one to compensate for the increased weight of the barrel. And make the top cover locking system similar to the AK-12. And then modify/replace the already new gas block for cleaning.

Lol, this is fun.

 

[WolfPack86]

INDIGENOUS CARBINE PASSES FINAL USER TRIALS: ORDNANCE FACTORY BOARD
The carbine, jointly developed by the DRDO and the OFB, is being issued to Central paramilitary forces and state police organisations. The weapon can be fired with one hand. The weapon can be fired with one hand.(Ordnance Factory Board, Kolkata)


A new joint venture protective carbine (JVPC) has successfully passed the final phase of user trials, meeting all criteria of the General Service Qualitative Requirement, the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) has announced.

The compact gas-operated weapon has an effective range of more than 100 metres and weighs less than three kilos. During the tests, the ammunition penetrated 3.5 mm thick mild steel plate and 23 layers of soft armour at 100 metres, the OFB said in a statement.

The weapon can be fired with one hand. It has a rate of fire of 800 rounds per minute. The JVPC, which feeds through the pistol grip unlike any other indigenously developed weapon in 5.56 x30 mm calibre, is being issued to Central paramilitary forces and state police organisations, Gagan Chaturvedi, deputy director general, OFB, said in a statement.

Indigenous Carbine Passes Final User Trials: Ordnance Factory Board

The carbine, jointly developed by the DRDO and the OFB, is being issued to Central paramilitary forces and state police organisations. The w...

www.indiandefensenews.in

 

[Lonewarrior]

Insas ain't any pig sirji, you may say I myself have called insas bad but I was reading a policeman's blog ( it said something about insas rifle ki chal)
He said , insas was accurate compared to ak.

INSAS fires a SCHV bullet at higher velocity compared to fat ass bullet of Kalashnikov; if a percent of external ballistics is considered true then it's bound to be more accurate.

Prove me wrong. I'll be glad.

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

INSAS fires a SCHV bullet at higher velocity compared to fat ass bullet of Kalashnikov; if a percent of external ballistics is considered true then it's bound to be more accurate.

Prove me wrong. I'll be glad.

I have deleted by comment, I respectfully back off , since Iam unable to prove you , whatever you wanted me to prove .

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

CRPF
INSAS with 2.5X OFB SCOPE