INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

Immanuel

Senior Member
Joined
May 16, 2011
Messages
2,421
Likes
3,750
Country flag
this is completely freaking unacceptable. i see double feeds and misfires.
While not defending the INSAS here but context is important. Looking at the ammo on the ground, they might have been busy firing for hours also many were magazines changes. Some context on rifle reliability here below even for some of the most used modern Rifles operationally. SCAR for example had 226 stoppages among 10 rifles while firing 60000 rounds between them or 6000 rounds each during US Army trials. That's 22 stoppages per Rifle which is 1 stoppage every 272 rounds. Those gunners need the new NG-7 and should be better.

2007 dust test[edit]
In the fall 2007, the Army tested the M4 against three other carbines in "sandstorm conditions" at Aberdeen Proving Ground, Maryland: the Heckler & Koch XM8, Fabrique Nationale de Herstal SOF Combat Assault Rifle (SCAR) and the Heckler & Koch HK416. Ten of each type of rifle were used to fire 6,000 rounds each, for a total of 60,000 rounds per rifle type.[53] The M4 suffered far more stoppages than its competitors: 882 stoppages, 19 requiring an armorer to fix. The XM8 had the fewest stoppages, 116 minor stoppages and 11 major ones, followed by the FN SCAR with 226 stoppages and the HK416 with 233.[54][55]

Despite 863 minor stoppages—termed "class one" stoppages, which require 10 seconds or less to clear, or "class two" stoppages, which require more than ten seconds to clear—the M4 functioned well, with over 98 percent of the 60,000 total rounds firing without a problem. The Army said it planned to improve the M4 with a new cold-hammer-forged barrel to give longer life and more reliable magazines to reduce the stoppages. Magazine failures caused 239 of the M4's 882 failures. Army officials said the new magazines could be combat-ready by spring if testing went well.[56] The Army began issuing an improved STANAG magazine in March 2009.[50][51]

According to the Army, the M4 only suffered 296 stoppages and said that the high number reported could be attributed to discrepancies in the scoring process. The Army testing command stated that, if the number of stoppages caused by a broken part met some threshold, they would be eliminated from the final report pending redesign of the part. Colt also claimed that the testing conditions were unfair to the M4, as the M4s used in the test were normal guns from active inventory, with remaining service life varying randomly. Further, the trial M4s had burst-mode fire groups, which are more complicated and prone to failure than the fully automatic fire groups the other manufacturers presented for testing.[57]

There were three extreme dust tests performed in 2007. The second Summer 2007 results showed a large difference from the later fall test with the M4 having 148 class 1 stoppages due to rifle malfunctions and 148 class 1 stoppages due to magazine stoppages. The full-size M16 rifle had 61 stoppages during the same extreme dust test.[58]
 

Raj Malhotra

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
801
Likes
1,383
Country flag
INSAS LMG was being used way beyond its capability. Its supposed to fire max 1000 rounds in Half hour ie 30 minutes.

In the video clip, it seemed around almost 100-150 rounds were being fired per minute. Magzine was being emptied in single burst without any trigger control.
 

Bhumihar

Jako Rakhe Saiyan Mar Sake Na Koi
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2017
Messages
5,845
Likes
19,167
Country flag
INSAS LMG was being used way beyond its capability. Its supposed to fire max 1000 rounds in Half hour ie 30 minutes.

In the video clip, it seemed around almost 100-150 rounds were being fired per minute. Magzine was being emptied in single burst without any trigger control.
The INSAS reflects on IAs tactics.

Watch US tactics in Afghanistan and then compare them to the ones U see in India.

The IA has the One bullet one kill rule i.e lay precises shots without wasting a single bullet. This be called precision fire.

The US army on the other hand believes in suppression fire tactics. If they get a rough idea about the position of the enemy they will rain bullets on them. Meanwhile each team has a sniper or at least a marksman.
the Marksman and Sniper lay precise shots on the enemy. They use suppression fire to cover for their enemies who either maneuver towards the enemy or seat themselves in a better position.
This is why US concentrates big on Marksman and sniper training.
If their is no scope for sniper then they blow the whole position with Javeline




Watch this video above.

The soldiers are suppressing the enemies meanwhile his buddy blows up the position with javelin.

The above method is not valid for CT ops in populated area but still I wanted to bring general perspective of tactics under view. Even we do the same in cross border attacks.

The INSAS was tailor made for Indian tactics three round bust fire reflects that.

ARs are made for american tactics with tolerance to high rate of fire per minute.
 

Raj Malhotra

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
801
Likes
1,383
Country flag
Even for belt fed GPMG, the training is to fire short burst 4-5 rounds, wait 5 sec and then repeat. Hence 40-80 rounds per minute. Change barrel after 3-5 minutes ie 200-300 rounds. Even at higher intense firing trigger control is maintained.

In the video, I don't think INSAS LMG was jamming, the soldier was too charged up & tense, hence working the charging handle, not able to insert the Magzine properly couple of times

Even then INSAS LMG fired around 300 rounds in 2 minutes in the video & was still firing.

Though a periscope sight alongwith tripod mounted GPMG would have made more sense.
 

aditya g

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2014
Messages
1,839
Likes
4,109
Country flag
I wonder if the soldier was hitting anything at all by raining full mags at a time.

Even for belt fed GPMG, the training is to fire short burst 4-5 rounds, wait 5 sec and then repeat. Hence 40-80 rounds per minute. Change barrel after 3-5 minutes ie 200-300 rounds. Even at higher intense firing trigger control is maintained.

In the video, I don't think INSAS LMG was jamming, the soldier was too charged up & tense, hence working the charging handle, not able to insert the Magzine properly couple of times

Even then INSAS LMG fired around 300 rounds in 2 minutes in the video & was still firing.

Though a periscope sight alongwith tripod mounted GPMG would have made more sense.
 

Arihant

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2015
Messages
450
Likes
2,228
Country flag
I wonder if the soldier was hitting anything at all by raining full mags at a time.
bullets are pouring in from enemy position, that's why he is firing like hell. You can not aim at enemy in this situation.
 

Lonewarrior

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2019
Messages
169
Likes
323
Country flag
And interestingly, as of now no one mentioned the perks of not having a BHO and forward assist.
 

utubekhiladi

The Preacher
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2010
Messages
4,134
Likes
6,663
Country flag

Golden Peacock Award for OFB's Rifle Factory
The bar is extremely low for getting a Golden Peacock award.
I don't think there is any point in mocking RFI for this.
View attachment 52336
After all they realised how to mount a scope.
Golden Peacock is bit underappreciative; they deserve nothing less than a Golden Dodo.

is this the best "Sniper rifle" that OFB can produce?

this look like glorified balloon shooter to me. some thing like below.

1594333122732.png


wait let me fix this..

now the gun represents accurately. did you see it? :troll:


1594333338879.png
 
Last edited:

utubekhiladi

The Preacher
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2010
Messages
4,134
Likes
6,663
Country flag
The INSAS reflects on IAs tactics.

Watch US tactics in Afghanistan and then compare them to the ones U see in India.

The IA has the One bullet one kill rule i.e lay precises shots without wasting a single bullet. This be called precision fire.

The US army on the other hand believes in suppression fire tactics. If they get a rough idea about the position of the enemy they will rain bullets on them. Meanwhile each team has a sniper or at least a marksman.
the Marksman and Sniper lay precise shots on the enemy. They use suppression fire to cover for their enemies who either maneuver towards the enemy or seat themselves in a better position.
This is why US concentrates big on Marksman and sniper training.
If their is no scope for sniper then they blow the whole position with Javeline




Watch this video above.

The soldiers are suppressing the enemies meanwhile his buddy blows up the position with javelin.

The above method is not valid for CT ops in populated area but still I wanted to bring general perspective of tactics under view. Even we do the same in cross border attacks.

The INSAS was tailor made for Indian tactics three round bust fire reflects that.

ARs are made for american tactics with tolerance to high rate of fire per minute.
Even for belt fed GPMG, the training is to fire short burst 4-5 rounds, wait 5 sec and then repeat. Hence 40-80 rounds per minute. Change barrel after 3-5 minutes ie 200-300 rounds. Even at higher intense firing trigger control is maintained.

In the video, I don't think INSAS LMG was jamming, the soldier was too charged up & tense, hence working the charging handle, not able to insert the Magzine properly couple of times

Even then INSAS LMG fired around 300 rounds in 2 minutes in the video & was still firing.

Though a periscope sight alongwith tripod mounted GPMG would have made more sense.
I wonder if the soldier was hitting anything at all by raining full mags at a time.

I am a big fan of INSAS rifle, i have even called the rifle that won us the kargil many times. the rifle is cocktail of FN-FAL and AK47 design. this rifle made sense in the 90's but not any more.

personally, i still find that 5.56x45 FMJ 62gr is a still a better round compared to 7.62 of that AK round..
but INSAS is not the best rifle to fire 62gr round.

sadly, the time has come for INSAS and AK's Family
my time has come.gif
 

Global Defence

Articles

Top