INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[Kchontha]

20 Round Magzine is to keep height of weapon low when firing in prone position.

Don't you fire an ak 47 in prone position?

 

[tharun]

20 Round Magzine is to keep height of weapon low when firing in prone position.

Then why did they issued a 30 round magzine instead of 20 round?
Thing is about spring tension inside the magazine.

 

[devhensh]

Then why did they issued a 30 round magzine instead of 20 round?
Thing is about spring tension inside the magazine.

I think that 20 round is for rifles and 30 for the INSAS LMG..Diffrent applications, diffrent tools ...

 

[Gessler]

Don't you fire an ak 47 in prone position?

AK mag is curved. That of 7.62x51 OFB rifle (and even of the FAL) is straight, means more length.

Most 308 rifles in the world usually use 20-round magazines.

FN FAL
HK G3
HK417 etc.

The 308 round is much heavier & bulkier than the 223...carrying same number of rounds in magazine means more weight for the 308 user.

However this more or less compensates with the fact that the 308 is more powerful, and given the additional recoil, the shooter is often compelled to use it in the semi-auto mode - which as a side benefit makes him more accurate and can potentially get the kill with fewer rounds expended.

 

[devhensh]

All comments about the 20 round 7.62x51 magzines are true.
But my comments and the original question was about INSAS 5.56x45mm magzine....

Also there are popular 25 round 7.62x51 magzines , which the Galil Ace and lots of AR10 pattern rifles take
https://www.magpul.com/products/pmag-25-m118-lrsr-gen-m3-window

 

[Vijyes]

All comments about the 20 round 7.62x51 magzines are true.
But my comments and the original question was about INSAS 5.56x45mm magzine....

Also there are popular 25 round 7.62x51 magzines , which the Galil Ace and lots of AR10 pattern rifles take
https://www.magpul.com/products/pmag-25-m118-lrsr-gen-m3-window

I have done my bits of research on 20 and 30 round magazines. Apparently 20 round magazines are better as it provides moe options like prone fire, fire from bench etc but 30 round ones are better if in an all guns blazing situation. 50-60 round magazines are unreliable and hence not used as far as possible. Soldiers normally load 20 round ones into their rifles but keep 30 round magazines in their pouch in case the heat turns on drastically.

Simply put, both 20 and 30 round magazines are used with the default load being 20 round one and backups having both 20 and 30 round ones. Both magazines are used

 

[Kchontha]

Both 20 and 30 round megazine for various assault rifles adopted as standard isse rifles have their respective pros and cons. But as far as insas 5.56x45mm is concerned it is more related to issue of weight and its resultant maneuverability of the Infantry soldiers than any other reasons.

 

[Prashant12]

Assault Rifles

Rifle Factory Ishapore (RFI) successfully developed Rifle 5.56 x 45mm Excalibur in association with Army. The Gun has been tried by the Indian Army and Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA). RFI has already supplied around 20000 Nos. Excalibur Rifles to various Police Forces. The design of 5.56 x 45mm Assault Rifle Excalibur is established and proven.

Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) has indigenously developed 7.62 x 39mm Assault Rifle (Ghaatak) for MHA Units and Police Forces. After elaborate evaluation, State and Central Police Forces have placed order of around 5000 Nos. out of which OFB has already supplied 1230 Nos. The Indian Army and Indian Navy will be evaluating the weapon.

RFI had developed 5.56 x 45mm INSAS 1C Assault Rifle in the year 2015-16. The Rifle was extensively evaluated by Army and was able to achieve reliability of international standards.

However, in August, 2016, Army changed the calibre of the Assault Rifle from 5.56 x 45mm to 7.62 x 51mm. As a result of this change of calibre, the indigenous Assault Rifle of 5.56 x 45mm Calibre could not be inducted in Army.

Case for declaring an equipment ‘Obsolete’ is taken up by Line Directorate, Army Headquarters (Infantry Directorate, Army Headquarters for Small Arms). No further provisioning for said equipment and spares is done thereafter. Line Directorate caters for introduction of new equipment as replacement for equipment which it plans to phase out.

This information was given by Minister of State for Defence Dr. Subhash Bhamre in a written reply to Shri M Chandrakasi in Lok Sabha today.

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx

 

[Kchontha]

Assault Rifles

Rifle Factory Ishapore (RFI) successfully developed Rifle 5.56 x 45mm Excalibur in association with Army. The Gun has been tried by the Indian Army and Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA). RFI has already supplied around 20000 Nos. Excalibur Rifles to various Police Forces. The design of 5.56 x 45mm Assault Rifle Excalibur is established and proven.

Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) has indigenously developed 7.62 x 39mm Assault Rifle (Ghaatak) for MHA Units and Police Forces. After elaborate evaluation, State and Central Police Forces have placed order of around 5000 Nos. out of which OFB has already supplied 1230 Nos. The Indian Army and Indian Navy will be evaluating the weapon.

RFI had developed 5.56 x 45mm INSAS 1C Assault Rifle in the year 2015-16. The Rifle was extensively evaluated by Army and was able to achieve reliability of international standards.

However, in August, 2016, Army changed the calibre of the Assault Rifle from 5.56 x 45mm to 7.62 x 51mm. As a result of this change of calibre, the indigenous Assault Rifle of 5.56 x 45mm Calibre could not be inducted in Army.

Case for declaring an equipment ‘Obsolete’ is taken up by Line Directorate, Army Headquarters (Infantry Directorate, Army Headquarters for Small Arms). No further provisioning for said equipment and spares is done thereafter. Line Directorate caters for introduction of new equipment as replacement for equipment which it plans to phase out.

This information was given by Minister of State for Defence Dr. Subhash Bhamre in a written reply to Shri M Chandrakasi in Lok Sabha today.

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx

The current IA theory behind caliber change first from 7.62x61mm to 5.56x45mm again back to 7.62x51mm lies rather - with the figment of imagination of some top brass created/inspired by books written on R&D assault rifle - than the concern regarding power of 5.56x45mm ammunition. This 7.62natoVs5.56nato dualism is almost two decades old controversy and both the calibers have their own respective pros and cons. It all started in the USA when new assault rifle called as M16 chambered in 5.56 mm was adopted or pushed in by its manufacturer. It is more of a assault rifle business than any other reason. Some of the European countries lingered on with 7.62 nato and produce some of the best assault rifle (for example the German and Belgian) in the world. But IA army follows US Army's doctrine without having its own and adopted 5.56 rifle in the form of Insas. Insas has been serving IA, paramilitary and state police as a reliable and practicable assault rifle since its adoption. In the meantime IA had issued unrelialistic requirement for a multicalibar rifle to replace insas which was cemcelled due to failure of all the foreign made rifle in the trial. At the same time drdo/ARDE has developed a multicalibar assault rifle dubbed as mciws/AAR. Now IA is asking for a 7.62 mm rifle to replace the INSAS. Here the most intriguing part is that US Army has also asked for interim 7.62 rifle to replace the m4 until an intermediate 6.5mm chambered rifle. Shshssss! So drdo/ARDE/ofb needs to develop 6.5mm/6.8mm chambered AAR OR a new rifle in quick time.

 

[Vijyes]

The current IA theory behind caliber change first from 7.62x61mm to 5.56x45mm again back to 7.62x51mm lies rather - with the figment of imagination of some top brass created/inspired by books written on R&D assault rifle - than the concern regarding power of 5.56x45mm ammunition. This 7.62natoVs5.56nato dualism is almost two decades old controversy and both the calibers have their own respective pros and cons. It all started in the USA when new assault rifle called as M16 chambered in 5.56 mm was adopted or pushed in by its manufacturer. It is more of a assault rifle business than any other reason. Some of the European countries lingered on with 7.62 nato and produce some of the best assault rifle (for example the German and Belgian) in the world. But IA army follows US Army's doctrine without having its own and adopted 5.56 rifle in the form of Insas. Insas has been serving IA, paramilitary and state police as a reliable and practicable assault rifle since its adoption. In the meantime IA had issued unrelialistic requirement for a multicalibar rifle to replace insas which was cemcelled due to failure of all the foreign made rifle in the trial. At the same time drdo/ARDE has developed a multicalibar assault rifle dubbed as mciws/AAR. Now IA is asking for a 7.62 mm rifle to replace the INSAS. Here the most intriguing part is that US Army has also asked for interim 7.62 rifle to replace the m4 until an intermediate 6.5mm chambered rifle. Shshssss! So drdo/ARDE/ofb needs to develop 6.5mm/6.8mm chambered AAR OR a new rifle in quick time.

Which is a better rifle to massacre lakhs and crores? That rifle is the best rifle. Rifles are meant to kill, not wound. This is especially true in a full scale war. Do you think that there were enough resources to give medical aid to fallen soldiers in WW2? Nope. It is the moronic doctrine of 'limited war' that has corrupted the minds of people

 

[Shadow]

@Kunal Biswas Dada,
Is there any thread comparing Bren LMG vs INSAS LMG?

 

[Kchontha]

Which is a better rifle to massacre lakhs and crores? That rifle is the best rifle. Rifles are meant to kill, not wound. This is especially true in a full scale war. Do you think that there were enough resources to give medical aid to fallen soldiers in WW2? Nope. It is the moronic doctrine of 'limited war' that has corrupted the minds of people

A bullet in the head is a bullet no matter what size it is. Most of the fallen soldiers in WW2 were stengundowned.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

1B1 & variants so does INSAS LMG ..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Probably OFB MRF-91 ..

 

[tharun]

1B1 & variants so does INSAS LMG ..

How good is the stopping power of lmg? Why our guys are not using 7.62mm?

 

[Vijyes]

We need 100 crore guns - 1 gun for 1 hindu. I wonder which gun and ammunition is easy to manufacture in that quantity.

 

[abingdonboy]

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[devhensh]

Indeed, the AK47 shown above seems very similar to a very high quality milled receiver AK 47 made by Arsenal pictured below)....Good job ...Ordnance Factory Tiruchirapalli....

 

[Vorschlaghammer]

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Since OFB is making it, why not use a sturdier or hinged top cover like the INSAS and move the rear sight to the very end and make it a peep/ghost ring type ? AK type sights aren't really conducive to accuracy.

 

[tharun]

@Kunal Biswas What is the barrel life of insas?
I just saw a program about LWRC 6.8 they said there barrel life is 20k rounds and standard M4 id 6-10k rounds.