INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

Kunal Biswas

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Good observation ..



Interestingly they have removed it from MICWS ..

Looks like significant changes to the Gas port, from 90 degrees to 45 degrees. The magazine displayed could just as well be a dummy just for display purposes.
 

rishivashista13

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Looks like significant changes to the Gas port, from 90 degrees to 45 degrees. The magazine displayed could just as well be a dummy just for display purposes.
Is there any advantage of doing that ?

Sent from my Micromax Q380 using Tapatalk
 

Twinblade

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Is there any advantage of doing that ?

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If done properly (port landing in grooves between rifling), the cyclic rate of the rifle is unaffected by gas port wear over the life of rifle due to bullet passing over it.

If done improperly (port landing on rifling instead of grooves), the bullet shear increases, thus increasing fouling.

Insas has a six groove barrel, compared to 4 groove barrel of AKM. This would require greater precision from the manufacturer.

Port erosion can be dealt with the gas regulator. Don't really know why this is being done.
 

pmaitra

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If done properly (port landing in grooves between rifling), the cyclic rate of the rifle is unaffected by gas port wear over the life of rifle due to bullet passing over it.

If done improperly (port landing on rifling instead of grooves), the bullet shear increases, thus increasing fouling.

Insas has a six groove barrel, compared to 4 groove barrel of AKM. This would require greater precision from the manufacturer.

Port erosion can be dealt with the gas regulator. Don't really know why this is being done.
The gas block is angled typically indicates that the hole in the barrrel would also be angled, but then, this is not necessarily or always the case.

One has to see the barrel with the gas block removed to see what it looks like.

For general interest, an angled hole looks like this:

upload_2016-7-30_20-17-17.jpeg
upload_2016-7-30_20-17-26.jpeg


It is not uncommon to have an angled gas block with perpendicular hole in the barrel. Many aftermarket repairs of the Kalashnikov have parts from different sources, say the barrel from Romania and the gas block from Yugoslavia. As long as the holes line up, it should work fine.



Regarding bullet shear if the drill lands in the rifling, many DYI discussion fora talk about drilling holes as an aftermarket activity. Some say the first time a bullet is fired, it clear out any obstruction and the subsequent bullets will pass through just fine, but then, one couldn't be too sure.
_______________________

My speculation is that this is a cost saving measure. The barrel has been slightly elongated from the older INSAS, and uses the same gas pipe. So, instead of using the straight block, they are using the angled block so that the angled block can reach up to the hole in the barrel, which has moved forward. Now, the question is why didn't they just drill the hole closer to so that the old perpendicular block used in the old INSAS could be used? One possible answer is, those few extra millimeters of barrel will add to the thrust and thus increase range of the bullet, before the gas gets sapped into the gas block. Anyway, this is just speculation.
 
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kr9

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@pmaitra and @Twinblade .....Thanks for the info on the gas port.

Now, the question is why didn't they just drill the hole closer to so that the old perpendicular block used in the old INSAS could be used? One possible answer is, those few extra milimeters of barrel will add to the thrust and thus increased range of the bullet, before the gas gets sapped into the gas block. Anyway, this is just speculation.
I read that the gas pressure peaks before the round reaches mid barrel. The better the propellant packing geometry and properties, the faster it reaches peak pressure.........which is generally better for performance. So I think the gas port location would not make a difference after a certain point.

I have another inquiry--
Why is the gas tube so high above the barrel?? Won't bringing it closer to the barrel enable a sleek / thinner weapon (hence also effecting a reduction in weight)??
INSAS has the biggest gap between barrel and gas tube among the rifles I've seen.
 

hardip

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No doubts , just want to read more about it .

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Maybe u r right..bro..
but..
this about this pic ..

in pic seen 2 bullpup insas.. compare or demo or something else by a military person...

OK but pic mean not that.. bullpup insas available. I already seen this pic many time ago....Oviously could under development or Other things..
I believe that.. this is experimental model.. nd this project no more gone longer.. because bullpup design is very handy to use.but it's more complicated to develop...
that's it..
 

pmaitra

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Excalibur barrel is 3mm shorter than 1B1`s ..
True, but the barrel length is not the same thing as the distance between the receiver and the gas hole.

Here is a schematic diagram for illustration only:

Case 1: Starting point.
R-----------------------------------G
....................................|
R===================================G==============M

Case 2: Same barrel length as above, but more thrust.
R-----------------------------------G
.....................................\
R=====================================G============M

Case 3: Shorter barrel, more thrust, but probably a little less accuracy.
R-----------------------------------G
.....................................\
R=====================================G=========M

- is the Gas Pipe
= is the Barrel
R is the Receiver
M is the Muzzle end
G is a Gas Block or Gas Hole
| is a straight Gas Block
\ is an angled Gas Block

 

pmaitra

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@pmaitra and @Twinblade .....Thanks for the info on the gas port.



I read that the gas pressure peaks before the round reaches mid barrel. The better the propellant packing geometry and properties, the faster it reaches peak pressure.........which is generally better for performance. So I think the gas port location would not make a difference after a certain point.

I have another inquiry--
Why is the gas tube so high above the barrel?? Won't bringing it closer to the barrel enable a sleek / thinner weapon (hence also effecting a reduction in weight)??
INSAS has the biggest gap between barrel and gas tube among the rifles I've seen.
I really don't have an authoritative opinion on the gap, but I'll give it a shot.

Perhaps this is because the receiver has to be surrounded by thick metal so that it does not explode. This requires a minimum amount of thickness and the gas piston that pushes the bolt back has to clear the thickness of the receiver.

BTW, US civilian ammo is more powerful than US military ammo, and Indian military ammo is about the same as US civilian ammo. It is well documented that INSAS round trajectory is flatter than other popular 5.56 mm rifles, so, I think to allow for the extra pressure tolerance, the receiver in INSAS is thicker, and hence, the gas pipe is higher than otherwise.
 

EliteFoxtrot

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Please correct me if i am wrong but i had no idea about the handling of amogh carbine before these pics but after seeing that pic in which that guy is aiming the cabine towards the fisherman i think this gun is pretty good for our SF, its compact and it deliver rounds with adequate accuracy and energy..
 

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