INS Vishal (IAC- II) Aircraft Carrier - Flattop or Ski Jump

[Gandaberunda]

For Navy, 6 nuclear-powered submarines take priority over 3rd aircraft carrier

India’s emphasis on submarines to counter China comes against the backdrop of Beijing raising its capacity to build a destroyer in just 5 years.

www.hindustantimes.com

So goodbye Vishal, hello nuke sub and probably large destroyers.

Good decision.... We need more number of subs and ships to get foothold of Indian Ocean. Vikky and Vikrant are enough now and Vishal can be planned later after 2040

 

[fire starter]

Good decision.... We need more number of subs and ships to get foothold of Indian Ocean. Vikky and Vikrant are enough now and Vishal can be planned later after 2040

May be navy is first waiting for TEDBF to get ready.

 

[Gandaberunda]

May be navy is first waiting for TEDBF to get ready.

Navy is planning to lease FA-18 super hornet. TEDBF is still on paper with initial design yet to be frozen

 

[FalconSlayers]

TEDBF will be procured in 100 numbers if we keep two carriers and considering the fact that Navy will buy twice the number of aircraft for each carrier to base them on ground bases.

 

[Akula]

After seeing the defence cuts by Britain, I think maybe we might see one of the Elizabeth class carrier in service of Indian Navy in coming years.

 

[captscooby81]

They are in rapid troop reduction mood now. I won't be surprised they will say no to sell us QZ class if we make serious offer. Considering we leased our first 3 ACs from Britain . Just that we need aircraft to operate in QZ class they have F-35B we don't have them .

After seeing the defence cuts by Britain, I think maybe we might see one of the Elizabeth class carrier in service of Indian Navy in coming years.

 

[spiritb2]

After seeing the defence cuts by Britain, I think maybe we might see one of the Elizabeth class carrier in service of Indian Navy in coming years.

About buying QE class carrrier, wouldn't it undermine our Vikrant Class designs. If bought, enemies of nation might swing the narrative that our vikrant isn't good enough so india buying QE class carrier. No more import at least in Carrier Class vessels.

 

[WarriorIndian]

TEDBF will be procured in 100 numbers if we keep two carriers and considering the fact that Navy will buy twice the number of aircraft for each carrier to base them on ground bases.

Who will fund those aircrafts? With the present capital acquisitions budget, the Navy cannot buy that many and besides it would not need more than 2-3 squadrons of TEDBF unless the Navy has the mandate of having a squadron at all the 10 Naval Airbases they operate.

 

[Willy3]

Navy is planning to lease FA-18 super hornet. TEDBF is still on paper with initial design yet to be frozen

I also read few months back that Navy is in no hurry like IAF for new jet as most of the problem with Mig 29k was sorted out and so they are waiting for Teddy...
With only 2 carrier 45 carrier born aircraft seems enough...
Brahmos loaded MKI in far south and andaman could work as extensive naval air arm.

 

[Gandaberunda]

I also read few months back that Navy is in no hurry like IAF for new jet as most of the problem with Mig 29k was sorted out and so they are waiting for Teddy...
With only 2 carrier 45 carrier born aircraft seems enough...
Brahmos loaded MKI in far south and andaman could work as extensive naval air arm.

Navy should seriously concentrate on building submarine fleet. For the coastal length we have our sub fleet is shame. We need a formidable submarine fleet by 2040.
2 ACs are enough as we are not going out of Indian Ocean for war.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Good decision. Should concentrate on control of IOR within our current economic condition. Trying to compete with China with 3T is not going to happen. China's currently is now 14T.
Development has to be prioritized.
12 nuke subs will cause havoc in China's plan for IOR. 24 subs will give us superiority. Along with P8I, Sea Guardian etc will give us better reach.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Vishal can be planned later after 2040

Or Vishal may be altogether cancelled while India would be having sufficient funds to plan a 100,000 tonnes nuclear carrier by then. We would be having mature tech to make ships and fighters, fighters in production for carriers and probably would have bought a aircraft carrier too (British Elizabeth).

 

[Gandaberunda]

Or Vishal may be altogether cancelled while India would be having sufficient funds to plan a 100,000 tonnes nuclear carrier by then. We would be having mature tech to make ships and fighters, fighters in production for carriers and probably would have bought a aircraft carrier too (British Elizabeth).

Whatever it is 3rd AC will be named Vishal

 

[FGFAPilot1]

Shouldn't the planning phase start already, since it takes such a long time to plan, commission, design and develop even before the manufacturing has started?

We would need a 3rd Aircraft Carrier, that is not a question, so therefore we should at least start designing one.

 

[no smoking]

Good decision. Should concentrate on control of IOR within our current economic condition. Trying to compete with China with 3T is not going to happen. China's currently is now 14T.
Development has to be prioritized.
12 nuke subs will cause havoc in China's plan for IOR. 24 subs will give us superiority. Along with P8I, Sea Guardian etc will give us better reach.

What control of IOR?

Indian members always get one thing: It is not India but US is in control of IOR. Dominance of IOR is still a remote dream for China even if they have this dream.

Currently, it is still ok for US to tolerate India's growing Navy power. But this tolerance is limited. Once India's navy power in IOR reaches certain level, i.e. on par with Chinese, the first one getting worried is not China but USA: after all, they have Japan, Korea in East Asia for help, in IOR they get no one.

When this becomes reality, they have to make a choice: either gives Asia to China or gives IOR to India. The problem is IOR is far more important to USA global strategy than Asia. Or I should say: IOR is critical to any power outside the region.

So, the good chance is: when India gets her 12 nuclear submarines, USAN will put her on the top of the enemy list; When she gets 24 nuclear submarines, she will see a global alliance in IOR targeting her.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

What control of IOR?

Indian members always get one thing: It is not India but US is in control of IOR. Dominance of IOR is still a remote dream for China even if they have this dream.

Currently, it is still ok for US to tolerate India's growing Navy power. But this tolerance is limited. Once India's navy power in IOR reaches certain level, i.e. on par with Chinese, the first one getting worried is not China but USA: after all, they have Japan, Korea in East Asia for help, in IOR they get no one.

When this becomes reality, they have to make a choice: either gives Asia to China or gives IOR to India. The problem is IOR is far more important to USA global strategy than Asia. Or I should say: IOR is critical to any power outside the region.

So, the good chance is: when India gets her 12 nuclear submarines, USAN will put her on the top of the enemy list; When she gets 24 nuclear submarines, she will see a global alliance in IOR targeting her.

IMO there is a concensus in USA that it is going to be surpassed or neutralised by China or India in long term.
Given India's future is yet relatively uncertain unlike China and it has a position of relative weakness, and China has reached a position that it isn't willing to compromise, US could be forging a G2 style alliance with India in long term instead.

Unlike China, India will take at least 3 decades to even catch up with American power when anyway US will be left behind China and will looking for a major ally. Dominance over regions won't be important then but neutralising China will be. Collaborating with India would be safest bet in that era for US.

 

[no smoking]

IMO there is a concensus in USA that it is going to be surpassed or neutralised by China or India in long term.
Given India's future is yet relatively uncertain unlike China and it has a position of relative weakness, and China has reached a position that it isn't willing to compromise, US could be forging a G2 style alliance with India in long term instead.

When India gets her 12 nuclear submarines, it means her navy power and air force must be at least reaching the level of China of today. In other words, when this time comes, India will be in the same position as China today - a challenger to US's dominance in a region, it will be IOR in India's case.

It is not how India wants, it is what India need: for example, India need to secure her oil supply from middle east. Then India needs to build stable relationship with some of oil supply countries (i.e Iran or Saudi Arab). This relationship means you need to come to help when they are in trouble with other powers (i.e US). When you are doing that, no matter what you think, from US perspective, you are damaging her influence. Certainly you become another challenger.

Unlike China, India will take at least 3 decades to even catch up with American power when anyway US will be left behind China and will looking for a major ally. Dominance over regions won't be important then but neutralising China will be. Collaborating with India would be safest bet in that era for US.

No it is important for any power, especially IOR.

IOR is a specially region, it is the next to middle east - world oil center and then Europe; going north, it is central asia; going south west, it is Africa; going east, it is South east Asia. So, IOR is actually a door to 3 major parts of the worlds. Strategically, a country controlling IOR can easily projects her power over Europe, Africa, Asia. If India becomes a dominance power in IOR, you could say it will naturally become a world power overnight. And it is much harder and more dangerous to check such a power than China or US. It will be a nightmare for any power outside the region.

USA was alarmed when Chinese economic scale reach 50% of hers ($10T). In the case of India, the benchmark will be much lower (maybe $7-8T). So, the only way that India can be US's ally is India keep herself under around 40% of USA's economic strength. Is India willing to compromise on this? I don't think so.

 

[FactsPlease]

When India gets her 12 nuclear submarines, it means her navy power and air force must be at least reaching the level of China of today. In other words, when this time comes, India will be in the same position as China today - a challenger to US's dominance in a region, it will be IOR in India's case.

It is not how India wants, it is what India need: for example, India need to secure her oil supply from middle east. Then India needs to build stable relationship with some of oil supply countries (i.e Iran or Saudi Arab). This relationship means you need to come to help when they are in trouble with other powers (i.e US). When you are doing that, no matter what you think, from US perspective, you are damaging her influence. Certainly you become another challenger.



No it is important for any power, especially IOR.

IOR is a specially region, it is the next to middle east - world oil center and then Europe; going north, it is central asia; going south west, it is Africa; going east, it is South east Asia. So, IOR is actually a door to 3 major parts of the worlds. Strategically, a country controlling IOR can easily projects her power over Europe, Africa, Asia. If India becomes a dominance power in IOR, you could say it will naturally become a world power overnight. And it is much harder and more dangerous to check such a power than China or US. It will be a nightmare for any power outside the region.

USA was alarmed when Chinese economic scale reach 50% of hers ($10T). In the case of India, the benchmark will be much lower (maybe $7-8T). So, the only way that India can be US's ally is India keep herself under around 40% of USA's economic strength. Is India willing to compromise on this? I don't think so.

Not fully accepted or agreed but see NO need to argue (never did that on politics subject).
Nevertheless, one more thing to add - considering current technology situation, NO harm for USA to start "bind" India on (defence) technology front at this moment, i.e. a saturation tactic.
Put the other way, India got an advantage to see how US fight w/ China on technology front.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

When India gets her 12 nuclear submarines, it means her navy power and air force must be at least reaching the level of China of today.

It won't, China has a quite large submarine fleet. 12 nuclear subs don't create that of a dominance over 70 subs even if just few of them are conventional.

As far as US concerned, I didn't say that gap between powers of US and India will not thin soon. What I'm implying that once US will be left behind China to be cone #2, it can't and won't able to dictate anyone's terms for strong position. It's only aim will be get a strong ally like Russia to back against China-Russia duo.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

What control of IOR?

Indian members always get one thing: It is not India but US is in control of IOR. Dominance of IOR is still a remote dream for China even if they have this dream.

Currently, it is still ok for US to tolerate India's growing Navy power. But this tolerance is limited. Once India's navy power in IOR reaches certain level, i.e. on par with Chinese, the first one getting worried is not China but USA: after all, they have Japan, Korea in East Asia for help, in IOR they get no one.

When this becomes reality, they have to make a choice: either gives Asia to China or gives IOR to India. The problem is IOR is far more important to USA global strategy than Asia. Or I should say: IOR is critical to any power outside the region.

So, the good chance is: when India gets her 12 nuclear submarines, USAN will put her on the top of the enemy list; When she gets 24 nuclear submarines, she will see a global alliance in IOR targeting her.

What makes you think US doesn't already track our nuke subs 24 hours even now? A reason for their global domination is they keep track of every country's asset for most of the times. I am pretty sure an sub is placed in Bengal bay or Arabian Sea at every time.

As long as US interest aligns with India, it's all right. The policy makers are well aware of the reality. But to get there, economically we need US helps. Our primary competition is China which is competitor to US as well. When I said 24 it's 12 Nuk plus 12 conventional. At some point of time, slowly Indian armed forces will modernize as Indian economy grows strong. And all these assets including 4 carriers will be online after 2050.
IOR or Asia is not anyone's to give. Good powers take it themselves.