INS Vishal (IAC- II) Aircraft Carrier - Flattop or Ski Jump

[Mikesingh]

Food for thought

We already have over 50 'aircraft carriers' to guard the most vital choke point in the IOR - the strait of Malacca - and beyond as well as provide offensive air cover in the Indo Pacific region. These aircraft carriers are the natural islands in the Andaman and Nicobar region where airstrips can be constructed in quick time that can deploy recce aircraft like the P-8I aircraft, Predator drones, fighters, and refueling aircraft.

So why go in for the horrendously expensive-to-operate and maintain aircraft carriers for operating in the IOR and Indo Pacafic regions that would also need battle groups consisting of ASW and AAW destroyers, guided missile cruisers, submarines etc to accompany the AC for its protection as well as combined ammunition, oiler, and supply ships to provide logistic support? I would say it would be a waste of precious resources!

 

[FalconSlayers]

Food for thought

We already have over 50 'aircraft carriers' to guard the most vital choke point in the IOR - the strait of Malacca - and beyond as well as provide offensive air cover in the Indo Pacific region. These aircraft carriers are the natural islands in the Andaman and Nicobar region where airstrips can be constructed in quick time that can deploy recce aircraft like the P-8I aircraft, Predator drones, fighters, and refueling aircraft.

So why go in for the horrendously expensive-to-operate and maintain aircraft carriers for operating in the IOR and Indo Pacafic regions that would also need battle groups consisting of ASW and AAW destroyers, guided missile cruisers, submarines etc to accompany the AC for its protection as well as combined ammunition, oiler, and supply ships to provide logistic support? I would say it would be a horrendous waste of precious resources!

Whatever Shoooookla says, do the opposite, we should build more nuke subs.

 

[Love Charger]

3rd aircraft carrier is a waste of money , it's not ww2 era anyway , where carriers were hardest to sink as there were no anti ship missiles , or other advanced were not there .

 

[Marliii]

3rd aircraft carrier is a waste of money , it's not ww2 era anyway , where carriers were hardest to sink as there were no anti ship missiles , or other advanced were not there .

Do you know how many carriers were sunk during ww2 alone? Just check it

 

[Love Charger]

Do you know how many carriers were sunk during ww2 alone? Just check it

That's what I am saying , they can be sunk easily.

 

[Marliii]

That's what I am saying , they can be sunk easily.

Yup they can be.but most carriers were sunk by carriers.you need at least 3 ships of any type so that at least one is available for action.
but without the carriers the subs are just "target practice" for an powerful ASW force.

 

[Vamsi]

Food for thought

We already have over 50 'aircraft carriers' to guard the most vital choke point in the IOR - the strait of Malacca - and beyond as well as provide offensive air cover in the Indo Pacific region. These aircraft carriers are the natural islands in the Andaman and Nicobar region where airstrips can be constructed in quick time that can deploy recce aircraft like the P-8I aircraft, Predator drones, fighters, and refueling aircraft.

So why go in for the horrendously expensive-to-operate and maintain aircraft carriers for operating in the IOR and Indo Pacafic regions that would also need battle groups consisting of ASW and AAW destroyers, guided missile cruisers, submarines etc to accompany the AC for its protection as well as combined ammunition, oiler, and supply ships to provide logistic support? I would say it would be a waste of precious resources!

Why are people calling Islands as aircraft carriers, the Aircraft carriers are mobile and being able to move is their advantage. For godsake ,stop calling Islands as aircraft carriers. If India wants to be true super power ,we have to control entire Indian Ocean, only we should control IOR and for that we need Aircraft carriers which can move. We need both Subs and Carriers.

 

[Covfefe]

I think even the Navy knows that it won't get the money for a 3rd aircraft carrier anytime soon. But if they keep bugging, it might be considered sometime by the end of this decade, and be commissioned into 2035-40. They just don't want to shrug off the argument for having a 3rd AC altogether. They asked for subs 2 decades back, and are yet to get it. With realistic timelines that they follow in DAC, it's better not to kill the argument around the 3rd aircraft carrier, otherwise it'll take them half a decade to convince them of its utility again.

 

[Blank]

Every time someone call an island an aircraft carrier, one person in the navy gets an heart attack.

 

[Ugra Bhairav]

Every time someone call an island an aircraft carrier, one person in the navy gets an heart attack.

BC 20 Billion $$$$ ke sapne pe island daloge to

dill bhi jalega aur attak bhi aayga

Hai Allah!!! Bagadbilla!!!!!!

 

[Javelin_Sam]

China builds aircraft carriers. India builds aircraft carriers. China builds anti-ship balistic missile. India builds anti-ship ballistic missiles. When shit hits the roof, Chinese ACs takes the fight to Indian Ocean. Indian ACs takes the fight to South China sea. Chinese and Indian AsBMs cancel out each other. Sabaash. Meanwhile the 40+Sukhoi Su-30 mkiS questions their own existence. Or is this Anti Ship BMs all just nonsense?

On a serious note, i dont quite understand this obsession with Aircraft Carriers. To me, They are just a higly glorified peace time show-off platform populated by USA. Atmost ,They can terrorise some middle eastern militias or Abdul nations. Neither do the Americans has won any war against any worthwhie nation state that put to use USN Carrier Strike Groups except weaklings like Iraq, Syria and Libya. The soviet submarines were running circles around USN ACs. If Soviet Navy and USN would have got into a shooting war, those USN ACs would have been the first one to run for cover. The CAPEX of AC= CAPEX(Air Arm+AirDefenceSytems+Escort platforms). Easily over US$25 billion. Not worth the cost-benefit analysis.

Field some 10 SSNs in Indian Ocean and watch Chinese ACs and planners will run scratching their heads.

 

[Covfefe]

China builds aircraft carriers. India builds aircraft carriers. China builds anti-ship balistic missile. India builds anti-ship ballistic missiles. When shit hits the roof, Chinese ACs takes the fight to Indian Ocean. Indian ACs takes the fight to South China sea. Chinese and Indian AsBMs cancel out each other. Sabaash. Meanwhile the 40+Sukhoi Su-30 mkiS questions their own existence. Or is this Anti Ship BMs all just nonsense?

On a serious note, i dont quite understand this obsession with Aircraft Carriers. To me, They are just a higly glorified peace time show-off platform populated by USA. Atmost ,They can terrorise some middle eastern militias or Abdul nations. Neither do the Americans has won any war against any worthwhie nation state that put to use USN Carrier Strike Groups except weaklings like Iraq, Syria and Libya. The soviet submarines were running circles around USN ACs. If Soviet Navy and USN would have got into a shooting war, those USN ACs would have been the first one to run for cover. The CAPEX of AC= CAPEX(Air Arm+AirDefenceSytems+Escort platforms). Easily over US$25 billion. Not worth the cost-benefit analysis.

Field some 10 SSNs in Indian Ocean and watch Chinese ACs and planners will run scratching their heads.

Iraq was considered among the top 10 militaries of the world, I guess.Ill disciplined, ill trained maybe.

Most of the weapons have a relevance when shit has not hit the roof- ACs do exactly that. When China sends 003 to Indian Ocean, what do we send in response? If India aspires to be the net security provider in the IOR and have a bigger role in the ME(with warming up to UAE, KSA and Israel) it'll need ACs. Their presence is intimidating, they can perform area domination. It's a huge intelligence gathering platform given its ability to carry a plethora of sensors powered by a huge powerplants, and it's airwing. Your shore based P8Is can hardly cover till the southern part of Sri Lanka

Obviously IN must get those subs first, but ACs will be relevant for quite some time with added capabilities of long endurance UAVs and UCAVs.

 

[Mikesingh]

China builds aircraft carriers. India builds aircraft carriers. China builds anti-ship balistic missile. India builds anti-ship ballistic missiles. When shit hits the roof, Chinese ACs takes the fight to Indian Ocean. Indian ACs takes the fight to South China sea. Chinese and Indian AsBMs cancel out each other. Sabaash. Meanwhile the 40+Sukhoi Su-30 mkiS questions their own existence. Or is this Anti Ship BMs all just nonsense?

On a serious note, i dont quite understand this obsession with Aircraft Carriers. To me, They are just a higly glorified peace time show-off platform populated by USA. Atmost ,They can terrorise some middle eastern militias or Abdul nations. Neither do the Americans has won any war against any worthwhie nation state that put to use USN Carrier Strike Groups except weaklings like Iraq, Syria and Libya. The soviet submarines were running circles around USN ACs. If Soviet Navy and USN would have got into a shooting war, those USN ACs would have been the first one to run for cover. The CAPEX of AC= CAPEX(Air Arm+AirDefenceSytems+Escort platforms). Easily over US$25 billion. Not worth the cost-benefit analysis.

Field some 10 SSNs in Indian Ocean and watch Chinese ACs and planners will run scratching their heads.

Spot on! And the way a single nuclear armed Russian sub put the fear of god into the US 7th Fleet aircraft Carrier group defending USN Enterprise, at the time and still the largest aircraft carrier in the world, in 1971 in the Bay of Bengal is just amusing, or better still, laughable! The much revered and hyped USN Enterprise and its strike group just did an about turn and headed home, leaving a trail of red faces and embarrassment in its wake!!

Well, it comes about that an AC has never helped the US win a war ever! Where does the USAF buzz the South China sea and threaten China from? Not from any giant ACs that they posses but from the scores of bases they have in the Indo Pacific region - big 'islands' and small, many not shown on mainstream maps!! Check this out. (The base shown in China is in Taiwan).....

So the question is: Should India spend $50 billion for a Carrier Strike Group or build dozens of attack subs/SSBN/SSNs instead?

@Vamsi This is also in response to your post above mentioning the dire need of aircraft carriers as they can 'move'! Why do you want 'movement' anyway when all types of aircraft and ships can conduct offensive/defensive tasks and area domination/sea control from available/existing island bases in the region as the US is doing from island bases as seen in the map above?

Apart from the nondescript island bases, the US has established military bases in Japan, Republic of Korea, Thailand, Guam, the Philippines, Marshall Islands, Singapore, Australia, Hawaii, Kauai, Niihau, Oahu, Diego Garcia and more. 29 These installations are of great strategic value and retain the latent impact in turning the course of a military conflict.

And now the QUAD is constructing additional airstrips in the Andaman Islands too! Why? No prizes for guessing why as it's already been answered above!

Cheers!



.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

@Vamsi This is also in response to your post above mentioning the dire need of aircraft carriers as they can 'move'! Why do you want 'movement' anyway when all types of aircraft and ships can conduct offensive/defensive tasks and area domination/sea control from available/existing island bases in the region as the US is doing from island bases as seen in the map above?

Apart from the nondescript island bases, the US has established military bases in Japan, Republic of Korea, Thailand, Guam, the Philippines, Marshall Islands, Singapore, Australia, Hawaii, Kauai, Niihau, Oahu, Diego Garcia and more. 29 These installations are of great strategic value and retain the latent impact in turning the course of a military conflict.

And now the QUAD is constructing additional airstrips in the Andaman Islands too! Why? No prizes for guessing why as it's already been answered above!

Cheers!



.

Why stop there? Abolish all ships.

 

[Blank]

Why stop there? Abolish all ships.

All ships are sitting ducks. Why build a navy at all!? Let's go back to the old days.

 

[Marliii]

All ships are sitting ducks. Why build a navy at all!? Let's go back to the old days.

Why build an air force when you have anti air missiles? The guy who put that islands are aircraft carriers nuisance should be hanged for his idiocracy.air force doesn't want the third carrier because then IN aviation will become more powerfull then IAF cant have its "all that flies belongs to us attitude" and the nuclear sub didn't put fear on the 7th fleet it was a russian involment that did it.

 

[Covfefe]

Cheeniyon ko samundar ka paani pila ke marenge

 

[Covfefe]

Why build an air force when you have anti air missiles? The guy who put that islands are aircraft carriers nuisance should be hanged for his idiocracy.air force doesn't want the third carrier because then IN aviation will become more powerfull then IAF cant have its "all that flies belongs to us attitude" and the nuclear sub didn't put fear on the 7th fleet it was a russian involment that did it.

Also because Navy and Army Aviation corps pilots are better

 

[Mikesingh]

Why stop there? Abolish all ships.

We're talking Aircraft Carriers/Carrier Strike Groups per se and not individual ships. There's a difference! There's a choice. Spend $50 billion on a Carrier Strike Group or spend the money on SSBNs/SSNs instead.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

We're talking Aircraft Carriers/Carrier Strike Groups per se and not individual ships. There's a difference!

How do you propose the individual ships would fare against a Chinese Carrier Strike Group?