INS Vishal (IAC- II) Aircraft Carrier - Flattop or Ski Jump

[Rajaraja Chola]

Shouldn't the planning phase start already, since it takes such a long time to plan, commission, design and develop even before the manufacturing has started?

We would need a 3rd Aircraft Carrier, that is not a question, so therefore we should at least start designing one.

Start with a land based reactor. C-1

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Who will fund those aircrafts? With the present capital acquisitions budget, the Navy cannot buy that many and besides it would not need more than 2-3 squadrons of TEDBF unless the Navy has the mandate of having a squadron at all the 10 Naval Airbases they operate.

I would say IAF should withdraw from Andamans and give it to Navy. Have been saying this for long. Should be used to bulk up northern frontier.
Even for 2 carriers we would need atleast 90 AC per carrier. Remember 45 mig 29k were planned only for INS Vikramaditya. IN had an option to go for more migs. The only reason they didn't go for more was Migs were a problem from the start. Tedbf will replace all Migs and add squadrons.

 

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[Lonewolf]

More more more info

 

[flanker99]

More more more info

 

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[Gessler]

Dude, now don't make me laugh.

I don't need no third party source, have it from the horse's mouth :



http://www.ibtimes.co.in/lca-tejas-mk-2-testing-by-2017-drdo-chief-667693

So according to the DRDO chief, the Tejas Mk 2 will be "ready for induction" by 2024. Means just received the clearances. Like one year from there on, we may have a squadron ready. And all that is according to the DRDO's best & most optimistic estimations.

If you've been following the defence news for atleast an year, you'd know by now that their estimations count for next to nothing. Don't even expect to have the Naval Mk-2 ready before 2025-2026.

I'd long forgotten about this conversation...

So to summarize, a good 3+ years after the fact the then DRDO chief stated Tejas Mk-2 will be 'ready for testing' by 2017...we are still waiting for HAL to commence construction of the first prototype, forget testing - and the Mk-1A is expected to fly only in 2022.

A whole lot has happened since then with regard to changing ASRs (Mk-1A came up, Mk-2 underwent design evolution) but then this is to be expected. Every fighter goes through such changes in design process.

What we need to remember is that we shall be no more adherent to the Mk-2 and/or AMCA timeline as we were to any other project before it. It needs to be kept in mind before thinking of anything regarding IAF (or IN, as is the case of the thread) future composition.

Okay so a total of 5+ years later, here we are.

It's sometimes depressing when I revisit these old posts, and then look at the calendar.

 

[FactsPlease]

Okay so a total of 5+ years later, here we are.

It's sometimes depressing when I revisit these old posts, and then look at the calendar.

Good recall.
Well, this is just a forum. And there are always people keen to count chickens before hatched - part of the fun on such forum. Take easy & don't push it (incl yourself ) too much!

 

[IndianHawk]

Okay so a total of 5+ years later, here we are.

It's sometimes depressing when I revisit these old posts, and then look at the calendar.

Defence programs all over the world face delays , cancellation and uncertainties. French could never build second aircraft carrier. Uk hasn't still ordered 135 f35 and looks like won't be able to buy all of them. Is using us navy f35 for its carrier now.
Russian projects are a mess new destroyer cancelled , su57 being produced at very slow rate armata tank very very slow production many problems , kilo submarine replacement a failure .
Usa program also have faced enormous delays . F35 still not full operational , flying costs still too high from goal so much so that they have to cut f35 planned numbers.

Jumwalt destroyers a failed program wasting billions of dollars so are independent class lcs which will have to be retired desperate being new .

We are doing just fine in overall perspective.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Defence programs all over the world face delays , cancellation and uncertainties. French could never build second aircraft carrier. Uk hasn't still ordered 135 f35 and looks like won't be able to buy all of them. Is using us navy f35 for its carrier now.
Russian projects are a mess new destroyer cancelled , su57 being produced at very slow rate armata tank very very slow production many problems , kilo submarine replacement a failure .
Usa program also have faced enormous delays . F35 still not full operational , flying costs still too high from goal so much so that they have to cut f35 planned numbers.

Jumwalt destroyers a failed program wasting billions of dollars so are independent class lcs which will have to be retired desperate being new .

We are doing just fine in overall perspective.

Actually Russian's are doing way better comparably, Putin just announced they met 99.8% of procurement plan for last year. For them surface navy is not priority and they are doing pretty good in commissioning new gen subs nuclear and conventional

 

[FactsPlease]

See? You can always find "why so serious?"

 

[Illusive]

Defence programs all over the world face delays , cancellation and uncertainties. French could never build second aircraft carrier. Uk hasn't still ordered 135 f35 and looks like won't be able to buy all of them. Is using us navy f35 for its carrier now.
Russian projects are a mess new destroyer cancelled , su57 being produced at very slow rate armata tank very very slow production many problems , kilo submarine replacement a failure .
Usa program also have faced enormous delays . F35 still not full operational , flying costs still too high from goal so much so that they have to cut f35 planned numbers.

Jumwalt destroyers a failed program wasting billions of dollars so are independent class lcs which will have to be retired desperate being new .

We are doing just fine in overall perspective.

But our biggest enemy is producing ships and new weapon systems like hot cakes, so some perspective is needed and also a sense of urgency and sincerity. Not expecting to match them, but there seems to be a relaxed attitude when we should be scrambling with the ways things are moving in the neighborhood.

Weapons systems are not just for India but we need to look to export as well there are a lot of emerging markets that will go in pockets of China.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

I would say IAF should withdraw from Andamans and give it to Navy. Have been saying this for long. Should be used to bulk up northern frontier.
Even for 2 carriers we would need atleast 90 AC per carrier. Remember 45 mig 29k were planned only for INS Vikramaditya. IN had an option to go for more migs. The only reason they didn't go for more was Migs were a problem from the start. Tedbf will replace all Migs and add squadrons.

It should be a theater command over there.

 

[IndianHawk]

Actually Russian's are doing way better comparably, Putin just announced they met 99.8% of procurement plan for last year. For them surface navy is not priority and they are doing pretty good in commissioning new gen subs nuclear and conventional

There conventional sub program is a mess. Lada class is a failure with many problems. Now they are banking on Amur class after cancelling further Lada.
Let's see where it lands.

 

[omaebakabaka]

There conventional sub program is a mess. Lada class is a failure with many problems. Now they are banking on Amur class after cancelling further Lada.
Let's see where it lands.

Their 636 varshavyanka or whatever is just fine...non export variant is more potent from what I read. Point is they are deploying them in good numbers in very fast mode.

 

[IndianHawk]

But our biggest enemy is producing ships and new weapon systems like hot cakes, so some perspective is needed and also a sense of urgency and sincerity. Not expecting to match them, but there seems to be a relaxed attitude when we should be scrambling with the ways things are moving in the neighborhood.

Weapons systems are not just for India but we need to look to export as well there are a lot of emerging markets that will go in pockets of China.

We are picking up speed. It's partially have to do with economy as we reach chinese levels of economy we will be able to churn out just as much stuff with economy of scale.

Exports are picking pace too having reached almost 2 billion USD levels already. And now govt has liberalized weapons export by opening many technologies to be exported.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

It should be a theater command over there.

Even if it is, should be led by th Navy. The Navy should have atleast 8-10 squadrons of fighters and leaving Islands defence to them. They can rotate the fighters from land and ships.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Even if it is, should be led by th Navy. The Navy should have atleast 8-10 squadrons of fighters and leaving Islands defence to them. They can rotate the fighters from land and ships.

Why? It will lead to confusion, corruption and inefficiencies....IN should stick with recon squads and carrier squads and may be training squads but should leave the wider role to IAF....I do think we need to increase Su-30 MKI numbers with long ranges in the south with increasing threats from Chinese and US fleets based on their recent FONOPS and harass chinese ships

 

[IndianHawk]

Even if it is, should be led by th Navy. The Navy should have atleast 8-10 squadrons of fighters and leaving Islands defence to them. They can rotate the fighters from land and ships.

We are in era of joint theatre commands now.
Defending islands and coast line will be responsibility of peninsular command which will utilise assets of air force and navy as it sees fit .

 

[FalconSlayers]