INS Vishal (IAC- II) Aircraft Carrier - Flattop or Ski Jump

[IndianHawk]

Regarding INS Vishal , I highly doubt that we will get a third Aircraft Carrier any time, because it will be over budget. In my opinion, we should build more Nuclear Powered Submarines and Induct them in the Fleet. I highly Doubt that a Third Aircraft Carrier is coming any time soon. It's my personal take that we should Induct more Submarines in our Fleet under:
1)Project 75I
2)project 76
3)Project 75 alpha

Third carrier is part of naval planning since 2000s . It will come .

 

[Srinivas_K]

Regarding INS Vishal , I highly doubt that we will get a third Aircraft Carrier any time, because it will be over budget. In my opinion, we should build more Nuclear Powered Submarines and Induct them in the Fleet. I highly Doubt that a Third Aircraft Carrier is coming any time soon. It's my personal take that we should Induct more Submarines in our Fleet under:
1)Project 75I
2)project 76
3)Project 75 alpha

India needs to initiate the 3rd aircraft carrier building to ensure the design and ship building team are engaged.

 

[Super Flanker]

Third carrier is part of naval planning since 2000s . It will come .

I am Confident it will come. I just said that it will take some time for it to come.

 

[Super Flanker]

India needs to initiate the 3rd aircraft carrier building to ensure the design and ship building team are engaged.

Yes you are right, the Third Aircraft Carrier is a necessity in my opinion . If we want to Effectively Defend our IOR , than we need 3 Aircraft Carrier groups.

 

[Chinmoy]

Logic to hai .
Sea guardian is coming in . Tapas / rustom just performed atol. Unmanned drone can save a lot of space on a carrier . By removing human factors like accommodation / food etc. And drones are only getting advanced so a carrier that will serve us next 50-60-70 years should be designed to accommodate drones with fighter jets .

Smaller carriers could actually have more Survivability than large super carriers in times of Carrier killer missiles. They can be faster more distributed in theatre and more agile against new hypersonic missiles.

All in all good direction to take.

Hmm.

How many times Reaper has been operated from AC? Lets not even consider Tapas as of now.

Even if we start operating Ghatak UCAV from ACs, they can't go in and fill up the role of a fighter completely. They could supplement fighters, but can't take their place. Now we would be operating two sqds strength of Migs from Vikrant which displaces 45k tons. With a 60k ton carrier we could expect 4 sqd strength of same or equivalent fighters. Now even if we replace 1 sqd with drones of Ghatak caliber at 8 tons per ton, how come a light AC is going to help your cause. We are not even considering the helis for SAR and AWACS role here. Drones and fighters can't perform SAR and AWACS role for sure.

Now IN is not even saying this. SAP got it from MOD source. Now either the source is ch****a or it is making SAP ch****a .

 

[IndianHawk]

Hmm.

How many times Reaper has been operated from AC? Lets not even consider Tapas as of now.

Even if we start operating Ghatak UCAV from ACs, they can't go in and fill up the role of a fighter completely. They could supplement fighters, but can't take their place. Now we would be operating two sqds strength of Migs from Vikrant which displaces 45k tons. With a 60k ton carrier we could expect 4 sqd strength of same or equivalent fighters. Now even if we replace 1 sqd with drones of Ghatak caliber at 8 tons per ton, how come a light AC is going to help your cause. We are not even considering the helis for SAR and AWACS role here. Drones and fighters can't perform SAR and AWACS role for sure.

Now IN is not even saying this. SAP got it from MOD source. Now either the source is ch****a or it is making SAP ch****a .

Look at the endurance of UAVs . They don't need to be stored on carriers permanently rather they could use carrier as runways to rest and enlarge their radius of Operations.
Drones could be based on shore bases / islands / overseas bases but carrier runway would provide them a dynamic foothold in the ocean wherever is required. They could be refueled on carrier / re armed to go on to attack / surveillance hundreds of km further.

Carrier will take a decade to build so need to be looking at technical capabilities of that time frame.

I agree it's over optimistic and too futuristic for now . But my mind is imagining possibilities which are endless.

 

[IndianHawk]

Boost to Indian Navy’s capabilities! ‘Indigenous Aircraft Carrier on track, Navy to get 170 ships by 2027’

At a media interaction in New Delhi on Tuesday, Vice Chief of Naval Staff SN Ghormade talked about the complex maritime environment, since there are more players involved.

www.financialexpress.com

Btw navy is confident of third carrier so there's that .

 

[Rohan Naik]

Boost to Indian Navy’s capabilities! ‘Indigenous Aircraft Carrier on track, Navy to get 170 ships by 2027’

At a media interaction in New Delhi on Tuesday, Vice Chief of Naval Staff SN Ghormade talked about the complex maritime environment, since there are more players involved.

www.financialexpress.com

Btw navy is confident of third carrier so there's that .

Why can't we have helicareers like Japan Navy and use F35 on it.. Stop gap, yet potent..

 

[IndianHawk]

Why can't we have helicareers like Japan Navy and use F35 on it.. Stop gap, yet potent..

Because A ) f35 is not available to us.
And B) we are not restricted by japanese constitution to build small carriers .

 

[Rohan Naik]

Because A ) f35 is not available to us.
And B) we are not restricted by japanese constitution to build small carriers .

Why F35 is not available. Can u spotlight. I might be missing an update here.

 

[Marliii]

Why F35 is not available. Can u spotlight. I might be missing an update here.

You cant have both s400 and f35 mate

 

[Longewala]

Yes you are right, the Third Aircraft Carrier is a necessity in my opinion . If we want to Effectively Defend our IOR , than we need 3 Aircraft Carrier groups.

I would freely admit I am not an expert but I am told in a small fleet you will invariably have one of the ships on maintenance at any given time.
So increasing the carrier fleet from 2 to 3 effectively doubles the effective, operational number from 1 to 2, I would suppose.

 

[Hari Sud]

Conflict in the mountains will be a bloody stalemate of sorts. I have utmost faith that IA will turn that into a meat grinder for the PLA regardless of their tech prowess. The IOR will be the place where the real game is played. This is where we can grab the CCP by its nuts provided the imbeciles in the govt have the foresight.

As someone mentioned if the so called permanent carriers like Andaman or Lakshadweep are taken over by PLAN or if there is an attempt, how do we resist such a thing or worse will we even be able to liberate them? We need serious naval hardware both above and below the surface on a war footing, or else we are finished in the next decade! In all likelihood, PLAN will be the biggest and probably the strongest military force in the world by then.

Babaji shantidoot vishwaguru will be long gone by then, but his policies today will have serious implications in the future for the very existence of this country.

‘Chinese are so afraid of losing the Himalayan battle and with it loosing its prestige that they will posture but never fire a bullet. They know that to successfully invade via Himalayas, they need 6 to 8 times the numbers they have in Tibet, which they do not have. Moreover, India Army could crossover into China and give them a bloody nose like what Vietnam did to overconfident China in 1979. It is that scare that keeps them away. The other scare is copied and reverse engineered hardware and conscripts army which runs at the sight of guns firing.

 

[UnderFingy]

‘Chinese are so afraid of losing the Himalayan battle and with it loosing its prestige that they will posture but never fire a bullet. They know that to successfully invade via Himalayas, they need 6 to 8 times the numbers they have in Tibet, which they do not have. Moreover, India Army could crossover into China and give them a bloody nose like what Vietnam did to overconfident China in 1979. It is that scare that keeps them away. The other scare is copied and reverse engineered hardware and conscripts army which runs at the sight of guns firing.

Chinese have conscription? I thought they had not implemented it since the 1940s.

 

[Hari Sud]

You need sea denial platform and not prestige platform like aircraft carriers. Nuclear attack submarines are need of the hour. How the hell Chinese navy will crossover the Straits of Malacca and loose much of their power in front of Andaman island naval base battle.? Moreover, emptied of naval power, the China sea powers will make China as a fair game to settle old scores.

 

[Super Flanker]

I would freely admit I am not an expert but I am told in a small fleet you will invariably have one of the ships on maintenance at any given time.
So increasing the carrier fleet from 2 to 3 effectively doubles the effective, operational number from 1 to 2, I would suppose.

Neither am I an expert nor are you.
Yes I agree with what you have just written.
If we have 3 Aircraft Carriers in our Inventory than at times, we will have 2 operational and 1 in maintenance at a time.
I do feel like it is a necessity to buy a Third Aircraft Carrier to Be honest in My Opinion. Good day buddy.

 

[angryIndian]

India needs to initiate the 3rd aircraft carrier building to ensure the design and ship building team are engaged.

From where will the money come from ?
It's highly unlikely that India will see a massive jump in revenues,allowing for higher spending in defense.

Aircraft carriers are good,but only for those countries with huge financial reserves.But for a country with large fiscal deficit,it can become a White elephant.

I would rather go with more frigates,destroyers,SSN's

 

[Chinmoy]

Look at the endurance of UAVs . They don't need to be stored on carriers permanently rather they could use carrier as runways to rest and enlarge their radius of Operations.
Drones could be based on shore bases / islands / overseas bases but carrier runway would provide them a dynamic foothold in the ocean wherever is required. They could be refueled on carrier / re armed to go on to attack / surveillance hundreds of km further.

Carrier will take a decade to build so need to be looking at technical capabilities of that time frame.

I agree it's over optimistic and too futuristic for now . But my mind is imagining possibilities which are endless.

Read what SAP wrote.
He is talking of deploying Drones on AC along with jets because of which its size could be minimised. Now with a LPD, the option you suggested could be carried out. With you suggested scenario, a shore based drone operation would not dictate the displacement of the AC. It could be a 45k ton carrier or a 65k ton carrier. It doesnt matter.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Hmm.

How many times Reaper has been operated from AC? Lets not even consider Tapas as of now.

Even if we start operating Ghatak UCAV from ACs, they can't go in and fill up the role of a fighter completely. They could supplement fighters, but can't take their place. Now we would be operating two sqds strength of Migs from Vikrant which displaces 45k tons. With a 60k ton carrier we could expect 4 sqd strength of same or equivalent fighters. Now even if we replace 1 sqd with drones of Ghatak caliber at 8 tons per ton, how come a light AC is going to help your cause. We are not even considering the helis for SAR and AWACS role here. Drones and fighters can't perform SAR and AWACS role for sure.

Now IN is not even saying this. SAP got it from MOD source. Now either the source is ch****a or it is making SAP ch****a .

Exactly. Drones can't replace fighter jets. This is some sort of a compromise being considered and frankly, it would be saner to delay construction by 3-4 years instead of reducing size. And if even that is insufficient, create a sister ship of IAC-1 if they really want to compromise. Because a 65,000 ton carrier won't get to field 4 squadrons (i.e. 48 jets, which is the capacity a Nimitz class supercarrier has), rather it will be able to field only 3 squadrons (36 fighters). If we are that hard pressed for funds, create a IAC-1 sister ship which we can build quickly and without budget overruns. But keep the IAC-2 size at 65,000 tons, don't compromise on it. The original plan was 5 carriers for the Indian Navy as stated by senior officers themselves. So IAC-2 can become the fourth carrier.
TL DR Delay it don't dilute it. And if the delay is too long, build another IAC-1 class in the meantime.

Chinese have conscription? I thought they had not implemented it since the 1940s.

Chinese men get drafted. Not all are volunteers. The title of the current largest all-volunteer military force as well as the title of the largest volunteer military force in history both belong to Indian Armed Forces.

From where will the money come from ?
It's highly unlikely that India will see a massive jump in revenues,allowing for higher spending in defense.

Aircraft carriers are good,but only for those countries with huge financial reserves.But for a country with large fiscal deficit,it can become a White elephant.

I would rather go with more frigates,destroyers,SSN's

If I remember correctly, India's defence CAPEX has been rising with an average of 10% for the past few years. This year the jump was even higher. India's economy is growing, there is no question that the defence CAPEX will rise with it. We don't need a sudden massive jump in CAPEX, a steady rate of increase would do just fine.

Your entire fleet will be a white elephant when China starts sending its carrier fleet through your backyard and you don't have a carrier to send with your fleet that is meant to shadow the PLAN fleet. Your politicians will also become more willing to talk "peace and tranquility along LAC" when that happens. Do you think we would have been nearly as meek infront of China as we are right now if we had a large military edge over them?

 

[Hari Sud]

Neither am I an expert nor are you.
Yes I agree with what you have just written.
If we have 3 Aircraft Carriers in our Inventory than at times, we will have 2 operational and 1 in maintenance at a time.
I do feel like it is a necessity to buy a Third Aircraft Carrier to Be honest in My Opinion. Good day buddy.

‘Your opinion is Indian Navy propaganda to have third aircraft carrier. That propaganda centres around that one carrier is always under maintenance. That is a false assumption. Yes, aircraft carriers require maintenance every 2-3 years and upgrade 5 to 7 years. That is far less than the Indian Navy pro carrier lobby wants you to believe.