INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

[sayareakd]

do they say that China made bricks were tested to the max before put in the AC? It was Russian duty to do so, since we are paying top $$$ for it.
Other question is about boiler, was it new or used one? Russians it apears in hurry has almost made the mess out of it. Hope things are not that bad as it looks.
If this would have happen to IAC our media would have field day, saying all sort of negative out domestic company and department.

 

[p2prada]

IMHO, I don't know who to blame. Russia would have given specifications to the Chinese manufacturer on the quality of bricks they need. The Chinese may have provided lower quality bricks, either knowingly or an unintentional mistake.

Maybe the Russians imported cheaper bricks to cut costs, but went a bit lower on quality. With the failure, they will now have to use up more money in replacing the bricks with asbestos. If the delay is more than 3-4 months, then they will incur penalties from the IN.

The Russians lose face either way.

 

[ice berg]

IMHO, I don't know who to blame. Russia would have given specifications to the Chinese manufacturer on the quality of bricks they need. The Chinese may have provided lower quality bricks, either knowingly or an unintentional mistake.

Maybe the Russians imported cheaper bricks to cut costs, but went a bit lower on quality. With the failure, they will now have to use up more money in replacing the bricks with asbestos. If the delay is more than 3-4 months, then they will incur penalties from the IN.

The Russians lose face either way.

"We checked this, and found that Chinese enterprises which make such firebricks for naval propulsion systems have never exported such products to Russia," Yan said.

China Rejects Russian Blame for Carrier Snags | Defense | RIA Novosti

From chinese defence minister. That is as official as it can get

 

[ice berg]

The reason Soviet never went for nuclear AC was mainly because AC were never the centerpiece of their naval doctrines.

The subs were the centerpieces and spearheads. AC were mainly used to provide cover for the subs so they can go out into the open sea.

It got nothing to do with strategy vs tactics. Subs used well, can be as deadly as AC.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Kunal you mentioned the cost fact. I will have to disagree with you. If cost was the issue, the USSR would not have built a huge number of nuclear powered submarines, cruisers, and icebreakers.

USSR can effort, But when break down there Majority of Nuclear submarine fleet was destroyed..

When maintaining a regular Boat with steam turbine vessels its cheaper compare to Nuclear Powered vessels..

 

[p2prada]

China Rejects Russian Blame for Carrier Snags | Defense | RIA Novosti

Sevmash shipyard director Vladimir Pastukhov was fired in 2007 over his poor management of the project.

Important to note that heads roll whenever things go out of control, even in Russia.

 

[uss]

From idrw.org : " Poor workmanship behind INS Vikramaditya's latest trouble "

Poor workmanship behind INS Vikramaditya's latest trouble | idrw.org

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Being reputed site, And now days making things more spicy ?

 

[average american]

The Soviet had got nearly everything ready for generating a nuclear carrier, which means that the specific related technology tree has been opened before the collapse.
If the Soviet would have survived another 10 years, there are great chance that one or two of them can be kept alive until nowadays, might be in China.:cool2:
The fact US and the west won the Cold War doesn't naturally give an idiot from them the right to downplay the Soviet's achievements and the height of their once achieved technology level.

I spent a good deal of time in the USSR, their level of technology was not that great compared to the west. For example the use of vacum tubes in planes was not really because they were immune to EMP from nuclear weapons, they were because Russia could not produce quality chips for their planes. Russia had only a total of 24 Nobel Prizes winners about half in science to a couple hundred in the USA, same with Universities, very few of good quality. Russian Arms: Bad Quality and Overpriced Russian Arms: Bad Quality and Overpriced � WesternDefenseStudiesInstitute its allways been that way, they mostly stole western technology rather then developing their own... that is never a good idea in the long run because you dont understand or learn the fundaments that way and problems creep into the technology you dont know how to solve. .

This just happen recently, At the same time, Medvedev agreed that the defense ministry must not procure "trash," but must receive the best quality for its money and import foreign [Western] weapons as a measure of last resort (Президент России, July 12). Two weeks ago, Medvedev threatened to "execute" troublemakers within the defense industry and sack leading bureaucrats responsible for defense industry problems that are preventing rearmament. Think about it, they are in todays world talking about excuting people in the defense industry for the poor quality of equipment, thats just an indication of how bad its become. I cant believe India is buying that junk.

 

[pmaitra]

I spent a good deal of time in the USSR, their level of technology was not that great compared to the west. For example the use of vacum tubes in planes was not really because they were immune to EMP from nuclear weapons, they were because Russia could not produce quality chips for their planes. Russia had only a total of 24 Nobel Prizes winners about half in science to a couple hundred in the USA, same with Universities, very few of good quality. Russian Arms: Bad Quality and Overpriced Russian Arms: Bad Quality and Overpriced � WesternDefenseStudiesInstitute its allways been that way, they mostly stole western technology rather then developing their own... that is never a good idea in the long run because you dont understand or learn the fundaments that way and problems creep into the technology you dont know how to solve. .

You mean American made chips are immune to EMP in a Nuclear Fallout Zone?
Even Obama has a Nobel Prize. Nobel Prize is not a parameter. It is the West praising the West. Moreover, the USSR did not believe in sharing their knowledge, plus, gave the credit to all Soviet People, instead of identifying the lead researcher. The Soviet Space Program alone deserves a couple of scores of Nobel Prizes.
This has to be the joke of the century. Russian arms are cheap, reliable, and value for money.
West stole Tupolev-144 idea and made Concorde. US stole idea from Salyut-Mir and launched their Sky Lab, which was a resounding failure. West stole the idea of a working helmet mounted sight from the Mil-24/35, although a rudimentary device was made in Israel AFAIK. Most US Universities doing research in target tracking use Markovian Theories, named after Andrei Markov, who was Russian. There are only two American helicopter makers worth their salt - Boeing and Sikorsky, and the latter, was founded by a Russian Engineer Igor Sikorsky. The US has never built an ice-breaker. The Soviets have built the most silent submarine ever, and the fastest cruise missile ever, the US has never operated an unmanned Space Shuttle. The first module (Zarya) of the International Space Station was made by Russia. USSR launched the first lunar vehicle, apart from many other firsts in space technology, . . . , and the list is long.

 

[average american]

Technology index statistics - countries compared - NationMaster

You can whine all you like but take a look at where Russia is ranked by technology.. out of a hundred and one countries its 66. this is not my opinion but todays standards Russian technology is considered 3rd world. Even India is ranked higher then Russia, not by much. Even Mexico is ranked 44th.

Remember exceptions never make the rule, and you cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Loyalty to Russi is one thing, stupidy is another.

 

[pmaitra]

Technology index statistics - countries compared - NationMaster

You can whine all you like but take a look at where Russia is ranked by technology.. out of a hundred and one countries its 66. this is not my opinion but todays standards Russian technology is considered 3rd world. Even India is ranked higher then Russia, not by much. Even Mexico is ranked 44th.

Remember exceptions never make the rule, and you cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Loyalty to Russi is one thing, stupidy is another.

Who do you think is whining?

The fact that Mexico is ranked at 44 and Russia at 66 tells me this ranking is dubious, and from a dubious source. Even I could come up with a ranking placing Rwanda at 50 and US at 70. Do you even understand these rankings? Even Panama is ranked above India.

Open a new thread if you will, and let us get back to Gorshkov, shall we?

 

[average american]

Right, how much more is this boiler overhaul going to cost India, and if an Aircraft Carrier costs 4 times as much as the original price, how much do you think the PAK FA is going to cost, that is if it ever gets built.

 

[EzioAltaïr]

Guys, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't there a clause in the contract, that penalises Russia for delaying the carrier by 4 months more?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Guys, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't there a clause in the contract, that penalises Russia for delaying the carrier by 4 months more?

No, I dont think that we have penalizes Russian for this, As fire brick idea was of IN..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Right, how much more is this boiler overhaul going to cost India,

How you know that India is going to pay for those boilers ?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[Kunal Biswas]