INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

[Blackwater]

re: Vikramaditya Done, Russia Wants To Help With New Vikrant

khuda ka kauf karo, na baba na

 

[Known_Unknown]

We may have some differences with the Russians over the Gorshkov pricing fiasco, but it is always revealing to hear how the other side perceives the issue as well. So far I wasn't aware that India demanded many modifications over and above what was contractually agreed. If so, the escalation in price and delivery time is natural. The problem is that the Indian media often resorts to sensationalism and chest beating over such issues rather than make an effort to get the whole picture and convey what was really taking place. How many Indian news channels even have correspondents based in Moscow? In such situations, I think they rely on second hand accounts from Navy or government personnel or on reports from foreign news agencies such as Reuters or AFP, all of which have their own agendas and vested interests.

I think we really need to get beyond all this propaganda-if we look objectively, we will find that no other country has assisted us, and continues to assist us in the hi-tech area as much as Russia. From the Su-30 MKI to the Arihant to the T-90 MBT, from the Kaveri engine to the LCA, ALH and Brahmos, all of India's prized frontline weapon systems have Russian imprint. Russia is helping India become self-sufficient in building up a domestic arms industry. Of course, they may be doing this due to competition from the US and others, but unlike the US and EU, the Russians have never treated India as a subservient country or a poodle. We should be thankful to them for all their help.

 

[pmaitra]

We may have some differences with the Russians over the Gorshkov pricing fiasco, but it is always revealing to hear how the other side perceives the issue as well. So far I wasn't aware that India demanded many modifications over and above what was contractually agreed. If so, the escalation in price and delivery time is natural. The problem is that the Indian media often resorts to sensationalism and chest beating over such issues rather than make an effort to get the whole picture and convey what was really taking place. How many Indian news channels even have correspondents based in Moscow? In such situations, I think they rely on second hand accounts from Navy or government personnel or on reports from foreign news agencies such as Reuters or AFP, all of which have their own agendas and vested interests.

I think we really need to get beyond all this propaganda-if we look objectively, we will find that no other country has assisted us, and continues to assist us in the hi-tech area as much as Russia. From the Su-30 MKI to the Arihant to the T-90 MBT, from the Kaveri engine to the LCA, ALH and Brahmos, all of India's prized frontline weapon systems have Russian imprint. Russia is helping India become self-sufficient in building up a domestic arms industry. Of course, they may be doing this due to competition from the US and others, but unlike the US and EU, the Russians have never treated India as a subservient country or a poodle. We should be thankful to them for all their help.

It is true, the Indians have, on many occasions, come up with many modifications over and over again. The same thing happened with the Arjun programme as well. The Indian media is also irresponsible and lacks the desire to do thorough research. They only look at the delays, and completely ignore the changes in requirements, oftentimes requiring a re-do of a lot of things.

 

[Armand2REP]

We may have some differences with the Russians over the Gorshkov pricing fiasco, but it is always revealing to hear how the other side perceives the issue as well. So far I wasn't aware that India demanded many modifications over and above what was contractually agreed. If so, the escalation in price and delivery time is natural. The problem is that the Indian media often resorts to sensationalism and chest beating over such issues rather than make an effort to get the whole picture and convey what was really taking place. How many Indian news channels even have correspondents based in Moscow? In such situations, I think they rely on second hand accounts from Navy or government personnel or on reports from foreign news agencies such as Reuters or AFP, all of which have their own agendas and vested interests.

I think we really need to get beyond all this propaganda-if we look objectively, we will find that no other country has assisted us, and continues to assist us in the hi-tech area as much as Russia. From the Su-30 MKI to the Arihant to the T-90 MBT, from the Kaveri engine to the LCA, ALH and Brahmos, all of India's prized frontline weapon systems have Russian imprint. Russia is helping India become self-sufficient in building up a domestic arms industry. Of course, they may be doing this due to competition from the US and others, but unlike the US and EU, the Russians have never treated India as a subservient country or a poodle. We should be thankful to them for all their help.

Dude, Russia helps you because you pay out of the a$$ for it. Russia sells their grandmother to China when they could walk over the border. India doesn't owe Russia anything except a spit on the boot for the lies and corruption associated with Gorshkov. If you gave France 70% market share of Indian imports you would see how willing we would be to help you.

 

[Austin]

INS Vikramaditya in photo

Военный дневник Игоря Коротченко - Россия передала Индии авианосец «Викрамадитья»

 

[Known_Unknown]

Dude, Russia helps you because you pay out of the a$$ for it. Russia sells their grandmother to China when they could walk over the border. India doesn't owe Russia anything except a spit on the boot for the lies and corruption associated with Gorshkov. If you gave France 70% market share of Indian imports you would see how willing we would be to help you.

That 70% market share was not built overnight, and nor did the Russians suddenly start helping India after the 70% figure was reached. The Russians have provided India with soft loans and very generous terms on technology transfer right from the very beginning during the times of the Soviet Union. If France had matched the USSR's generous offers then, France would have been the dominant player in the Indian defence space today. The Arihant project was launched in the early 1980's, so was the Arjun tank and the Indian missile program. For all these, we received substantial Russian technical assistance. Where was France during the 70's, 80's and 90's?

The other problem with the French is that your military equipment is exorbitantly expensive, your ToT terms are very restrictive and since France is a NATO member, you are US lackeys in the diplomatic and political sphere. What this means is that in case of a war between Pakistan and India, while Russia will always stand by India's side, France will follow the US lead, which could be to impose sanctions and/or embargoes on the supply of critical spare parts required during the fighting. Not that France may have much choice in the matter either, since the supply chain for those arms is spread throughout western Europe and the US. Not so for Russian military equipment, for which spare parts are sourced almost entirely from within Russia and the former Soviet bloc countries.

For France, India is merely a large arms market to be conquered and dominated, while for Russia, India is a strategic partner. That's the reason France will never be the dominant player in India.

 

[asianobserve]

For France, India is merely a large arms market to be conquered and dominated, while for Russia, India is a strategic partner. That's the reason France will never be the dominant player in India.

Wrong. India is just a cash cow for Russia. China is the country that Russia seeks strategic partnership with.

 

[Known_Unknown]

Wrong. India is just a cash cow for Russia. China is the country that Russia seeks strategic partnership with.

You're right. I'm totally convinced. Very lucid and eloquent argument indeed.

 

[pmaitra]

Dude, Russia helps you because you pay out of the a$$ for it. Russia sells their grandmother to China when they could walk over the border. India doesn't owe Russia anything except a spit on the boot for the lies and corruption associated with Gorshkov. If you gave France 70% market share of Indian imports you would see how willing we would be to help you.

Indians don't store money inside their posterior orifice.

Wrong. India is just a cash cow for Russia. China is the country that Russia seeks strategic partnership with.

No.

 

[Kharavela]

Many Russians are sad that she (or he if you will) no longer belongs to Russia. She is indeed a beauty.

Jingoism apart, Can anyone present a scenario of INS Vikramaditya vis-a-vis USS Nimitz ?

 

[pmaitra]

Jingoism apart, Can anyone present a scenario of INS Vikramaditya vis-a-vis USS Nimitz ?

Imagine a horse and an elephant fighting with each other.

Even that answer isn't appropriate. We need to consider that a true comparison can only be done with INS Vikramaditya along with her compliment of ships via-à-vis USS Nimitz and her compliment of ships.

A point to point comparison is possible. USS Nimitz wins without a doubt.

Also, USS Nimitz can coerce a regime change in a small country, while INV Vikramaditya can do a regime change in a very tiny island nation.

 

[asianobserve]

while INV Vikramaditya can do a regime change in a very tiny island nation.

I'd love to see that.

 

[nirranj]

I'd love to see that.

Possibly in Sri Lanka in Near future.

 

[pmaitra]

I'd love to see that.

Possibly in Sri Lanka in Near future.

Not sure about Sri Lanka, but Maldives, certainly.

 

[drkrn]

We may have some differences with the Russians over the Gorshkov pricing fiasco, but it is always revealing to hear how the other side perceives the issue as well. So far I wasn't aware that India demanded many modifications over and above what was contractually agreed. If so, the escalation in price and delivery time is natural. The problem is that the Indian media often resorts to sensationalism and chest beating over such issues rather than make an effort to get the whole picture and convey what was really taking place. How many Indian news channels even have correspondents based in Moscow? In such situations, I think they rely on second hand accounts from Navy or government personnel or on reports from foreign news agencies such as Reuters or AFP, all of which have their own agendas and vested interests.

I think we really need to get beyond all this propaganda-if we look objectively, we will find that no other country has assisted us, and continues to assist us in the hi-tech area as much as Russia. From the Su-30 MKI to the Arihant to the T-90 MBT, from the Kaveri engine to the LCA, ALH and Brahmos, all of India's prized frontline weapon systems have Russian imprint. Russia is helping India become self-sufficient in building up a domestic arms industry. Of course, they may be doing this due to competition from the US and others, but unlike the US and EU, the Russians have never treated India as a subservient country or a poodle. We should be thankful to them for all their help.

bingo......

even mms has thanked russian support to india for decades recently in moscow..

 

[drkrn]

Dude, Russia helps you because you pay out of the a$$ for it. Russia sells their grandmother to China when they could walk over the border. India doesn't owe Russia anything except a spit on the boot for the lies and corruption associated with Gorshkov. If you gave France 70% market share of Indian imports you would see how willing we would be to help you.

can france offer diplomatic,military leverage what soviet offered or russia can give to india??

money ain't all

if had indian made the aircraft order to france with such that modifications add up from time to time,what could be the price of the french carrier?

 

[Armand2REP]

Indians don't store money inside their posterior orifice.

Two Indians nabbed with gold in rectum

 

[sayareakd]

Guys pls.concentrate on topic at hand.

any comment on the ships control room as it has old equipments withnew digital systems and computers.

 

[Armand2REP]

can france offer diplomatic,military leverage what soviet offered or russia can give to india??

Russia doesn't offer any diplomatic or military leverage. You have no alliance with Russia, a nation that sells its latest military hardware to your biggest enemy. France has the same international clout as Russia if not greater. As a member of the IOR community and hegemon of Africa, India has far more strategic interests going with France. Not to mention our military hardware is usually 10-15 years ahead of Russia.

money ain't all

India is nothing but a holy cash cow to Russia.

if had indian made the aircraft order to france with such that modifications add up from time to time,what could be the price of the french carrier?

A brand new PA2 is projected to cost $3.4 billion... that includes catapults.

 

[pmaitra]

Guys pls.concentrate on topic at hand.

I think one of our friends is trying to concentrate elsewhere. I hope he listens to you.

Two Indians nabbed with gold in rectum